RealGM

We are playing much better teams during this stretch, sure but I am pissed off after losing by 30 points for the second game in a row. We are missing a ton of guys, yeah but still I don't think we should lose by 30 points to other good teams, if Banchero and some of our supporting cast are really quite as good as we've been led to believe.

Banchero looks like he plays the game like KD but he's the not the shooter KD is. He plays it like a tall jumpshooter, he doesn't appear to have the same blow-by ability as Franz and is not the same athlete.

Franz was honestly looking like the best player we've had since Dwight, averaging 25, 6 and 6 over 20+ games. Everybody was getting involved, he was scoring from all over the floor and distributing.

Is Paolo really a "three-level" scorer? He doesn't appear to beat his guy and get all the way to the rim very often.

The rest of the team is banged up and tired, and we're really missing the combination of Suggs and Goga to uphold our defense which had been keeping us in games. I think that's mostly the crux of it.

Not saying there's nothing to criticize Paolo's for, or our front office etc. etc. But it's a rough stretch for a tired, depleted team during a hard part of the schedule. It happens. I'm confident we will turn this around.

As for your last questions, yes, when he's on and he's right, he's a three level scorer, especially with what he was showing prior to the oblique injury. Him being too big, too fast with too good of a handle and putting pressure on defenses that way (and then being a good passer) is literally the core of his game, even if he gets a bit too jumper-happy from time to time (which is not uncommon in the nba, it costs a lot more energy to drive to the rim again and again as opposed to firing jump shots).

franz is still more effective in terms of on-court advanced stats (with a year more experience, better two way play currently), but come on, we really need to put context into things and not assume it's a 1:1 franz did this / paolo isn't doing this.

franz's big thing was stepping into a higher role while everybody else pretty much had similar roles. we could survive this losing a player or two at a time, but not three starters and a random 2-3 bench guys and expect a fresh-off-injury paolo to lead us to wins over fully healthy boston/bucks/denvers of the world, on 8 less minutes a game than usual.

keep in mind post-paolo injury we were 0-5 (1-3 right now since he's been back), we were 3-6 as a team, and the "franz elephant" thread was popping off. wasn't all daisies.

Suggs
KCP
TDS
Franz
Goga

Bench : Moe JI AB Jett

Cole
KCP
TDS
Paolo
WCJ

Bench : JI AB Queen Houstan

Yeah....im choosing the 1st team.

Think I remember Franz having more bodies to work with and an easier part of the schedule......not too hard to understand

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

Let’s put it in perspective:

When Paolo went down, and it was him and Gary, I believe, we lost 4 straight to Cleveland, Dallas, OKC, and Pacers. Franz stepped up and he had a healthy Suggs, KCP, Mo, Goga catching his stride, and others stepped up when necessary. Besides Franz impact, he had a more healthy team. Franz starting lineup was Suggs, KCP, Tristan, and Goga with Mo coming off the bench. Cole, Harris, and Caleb stayed on the bench and only played when necessary.

Paolo comes back to a more depleted team. His starting lineup is Cole, KCP/Caleb, WCJ, and Tristan. And he’s playing against better and more healthy teams, like Bucks 2x, Boston, Denver—of which Franz played against non of these teams. Paolo came back against the hardest part of our schedule, with a more depleted team, against better defensive teams that can really expose our shooting. Oh, and he missed 34 games and working himself back into shape with minute restrictions.

Yes, we had the rally cry of “We are enough” but we are at the point where we do not have enough bodies and not enough shooting and defense to help. Everyone off the deep bench is playing serious minutes.

Paolo is probably a month away from being back 100%. The type of injury he had he couldn't train or do anything. Paolo carried the team last season for a period when Franz was out.

Typical Magic fan overreaction thread who always expects immediate results. Paolo is still on a minute restriction, which would tell you he's not 100% yet. We were also healthier when we had a stretch of winning with Franz. Franz was 100%, Goga was 100%, Suggs was 100%, and Moe was 100%.


Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

KillMonger wrote:Think I remember Franz having more bodies to work with and an easier part of the schedule......not too hard to understand

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

I addressed this in the OP, also not hard to understand

What IS hard to understand is how you somehow still missed that

KillMonger wrote:Think I remember Franz having more bodies to work with and an easier part of the schedule......not too hard to understand

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

Paolo isn't even 100% yet. You can tell he can't play a 5 minute stretch without getting winded.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Message Boar wrote:The rest of the team is banged up and tired, and we're really missing the combination of Suggs and Goga to uphold our defense which had been keeping us in games. I think that's mostly the crux of it.

Not saying there's nothing to criticize Paolo's for, or our front office etc. etc. But it's a rough stretch for a tired, depleted team during a hard part of the schedule. It happens. I'm confident we will turn this around.

As for your last questions, yes, when he's on and he's right, he's a three level scorer, especially with what he was showing prior to the oblique injury. Him being too big, too fast with too good of a handle and putting pressure on defenses that way (and then being a good passer) is literally the core of his game, even if he gets a bit too jumper-happy from time to time (which is not uncommon in the nba, it costs a lot more energy to drive to the rim again and again as opposed to firing jump shots).

I still don't think we should lose by 30 two games in a row no matter who we play if we have Banchero healthy and we really talk him up to be as good as he is. I'm calling out fans for being delusional.

Sure he played like an mvp candidate for five games and now he's back and people were making posts assuming he would still be scoring 29 a night. Hasn't happened.

Circumstances are quite different, but also Franz has always been a higher impact player than Paolo, if less flashy.

It was pretty clear Paolo was the better of the 2 players last season in the playoffs. He's also a year younger.

Franz 41/27/89 19 ppg
Paolo 46/40/76 27 ppg

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

OP judging Paolo on 4 games back from injury before he's even 100%. I got my money on Paolo.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Message Boar wrote:Him being too big, too fast with too good of a handle and putting pressure on defenses that way (and then being a good passer) is literally the core of his game

I disagree, I don't think it's "the core" of his game necessarily whatever that means. Paolo was always scouted as being a great all around player and being unusually skilled for a big guy but he was never in that elite athlete category of big guys like Giannis, Charles Barkeley, Griffin, etc.
The question is whether he can consistently beat his man off the dribble and im saying that i don't think he's that level of an athlete.

This was mentioned in his pre-draft profile on nbadraft.net he only got an 8 for athleticism.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/paolo-banchero/

Usually skilled, yes
Physically imposing, yes

But Paolo was never scouted as being a true elite level athlete in terms of explosiveness or beating his man off the dribble.

SOUL wrote:franz is still more effective in terms of on-court advanced stats .

Bergmaniac wrote:Circumstances are quite different, but also Franz has always been a higher impact player than Paolo, if less flashy.

Are both basically saying that Franz is better than Banchero? Cool so you're supporting my point? That is essentially what these phrases mean and the contexts you put them in don't do enough to dispell that belief.

Paolo is averaging 4.8 apg on 11 potential assists.

Franz averaged 5.6 apg on 11.2 potential assists.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

SOUL wrote:franz is still more effective in terms of on-court advanced stats (with a year more experience, better two way play currently), but come on, we really need to put context into things and not assume it's a 1:1 franz did this / paolo isn't doing

I think the added year is a significant point for Franz’ development as a playmaker. Paolo came into the league touted as having similar playmaking potential (and he does). But the team’s construction encourages his continued non- development as anything but an iso-supersized Cole Anthony. Durant, Derozan, Paolo and Cole all take a lot of “bad” shots…3 of the 4 will be HOF’ers because they make many of them. Cole is a “chucker” because he doesn’t.

Hopefully, health, maturity, and some incoming offensive support will make it possible for Paolo to develop more as a winning player by lifting teammates than just putting up 40 vs triple teams (which can’t be counted on). Not his fault that he’s “the only way”, but FO has to see that it’s not an ideal development path for him or the team’s future potential as serious contenders. Right now, you’d have to call Paolo a “black hole”, a “ball stopper”, selfish player” etc…he’s capable of being so much more but this is an important time to support and guide to a better path…more Jokic, less Randle.

The vision of having two 6’10 guys averaging 20+ ppg and 6 or more apg is very real and there should be triple doubles scattered in for both…but a third playmaker would make it a lot easier to envision a winning team that can put up 110 ppg every night (like even bad teams do these days).

Just to be clear…Paolo is a freakin’ STAR. ZERO debate.

Tyus Jones probably kills him on advanced efficiency stats…but that tells you how limited they are

Skybox wrote:Just to be clear…Paolo is a freakin’ STAR. ZERO debate.

Tyus Jones probably kills him on advanced efficiency stats…but that tells you how limited they are

Tyus is near the bottom in defensive analytics, and his offense is barely a plus.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

basketballRob wrote:

Skybox wrote:Just to be clear…Paolo is a freakin’ STAR. ZERO debate.

Tyus Jones probably kills him on advanced efficiency stats…but that tells you how limited they are

Tyus is near the bottom in defensive analytics, and his off is barely a plus.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

I meant in his whole life