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He also hasn't been the best passing out of double teams, often hitting the guy in knees rather than shooting pocket.

So you are saying the elephant is back in the room?

He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

I like Paolo but let’s not pretend that he did not have these exact same issues last season.

three3d wrote:

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

I like Paolo but let’s not pretend that he did not have these exact same issues last season.

Let’s not also pretend he’s some generational 10 year vet who has figured it all out surrounded with a team that fits his and Franz’s skill set.

An all star player like him still has growth to achieve.

89Magicfan wrote:

three3d wrote:

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

I like Paolo but let’s not pretend that he did not have these exact same issues last season.

Let’s not also pretend he’s some generational 10 year vet who has figured it all out surrounded with a team that fits his and Franz’s skill set.

An all star player like him still has growth to achieve.

I should hope being able to hit free throws at a consistent high percentage/or rate , or making the easy shots around the rim, or cutting down on your really bad turnovers don’t just come with becoming a seasoned veteran.

three3d wrote:

89Magicfan wrote:

three3d wrote:

I like Paolo but let’s not pretend that he did not have these exact same issues last season.

Let’s not also pretend he’s some generational 10 year vet who has figured it all out surrounded with a team that fits his and Franz’s skill set.

An all star player like him still has growth to achieve.

I should hope being able to hit free throws at a consistent high percentage/or rate , or making the easy shots around the rim, or cutting down on your really bad turnovers don’t just come with becoming a seasoned veteran.

I don’t know how long you’ve been following the game but everyone has something to work on. We have 3 good years of work to show that Paolo is better than this. He’s facing more double teams now than ever and he’s at the top of the list of players (which includes Giannis and Jokicwith 150 or more iso solutions who receive the most double teams (Franz being 7th).

When Shaq was drafted he had to spend an entire off season or two leaning how to read and pass out of the double teams as teams were starting to figuring out how to defend.

Adjustments need to be made. Paolo is young in his career. He needs to learn some new stuff. It’s how life works. You start a career, you grow or else you stay the same and die.

I just find it nuts how people get something good and act like they need to be some finished product right out the gate or trade em.

three3d wrote:

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

I like Paolo but let’s not pretend that he did not have these exact same issues last season.

Nobody has said these aren't problems but you have to take all this into consideration.

Dude came back 3 weeks ago and has had inconsistent play. He'd have heights of 34 points in his return game or 32 against Detroit to lows of 1-14 a week ago against Portland.

This isn't like some sort of 2-3 month trend. He looks like a player who just started and technically given how he only played 5 games that all happened in November it looks like it and he technically is just starting the season.

If he still looks like this in a month or two I'd be concerned.

three3d wrote:

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

I like Paolo but let’s not pretend that he did not have these exact same issues last season.

Nobody has said these aren't problems but you have to take all this into consideration.

Dude came back 3 weeks ago and has had inconsistent play. He'd have heights of 34 points in his return game or 32 against Detroit to lows of 1-14 a week ago against Portland.

This isn't like some sort of 2-3 month trend. He looks like a player who just started and technically given how he only played 5 games that all happened in November it looks like it and he technically is just starting the season.

If he still looks like this in a month or two I'd be concerned.

when your team doesn't have that 3rd offensive or creator to help take some of the pressure this is what happens. You're immediately thrown back into the role of carrying the offensive load vs being able to slowly grow back into it.

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

How delusional can you be? So he was out of shape at the beginning of the season, out of shape now, when is he in shape? Is Franz in shape? How come his numbers aren't down?

Here comes the apologists

You say he'll "get back to his normal self" after the all star break.

His numbers now are closer to his career averages than the five games at the beginning of the year that included his 50 point game.

What do you think "his normal self" is?

Paolo has been overated based on a season start, which is by the way was very much spoiled by a 50 game and opening game at Heat when he was awsome. Other two were so so, and hebgot injured at Chicago.
Paolo has an ultimate green light to whatever he wants on offense and too often he takes an easy pass of contested jumpers.
He has to be smart in his matchups, has to be much better without the ball establishing himself in the post or getting open.
He is build like a tank yet often he plays like poormans Tatum.
He may be young but he is a team leader and the way Magic sucks lately falls on him first, he must be better. Paolo Vice version from Miami should end ASAP.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

The-Stallion70 wrote:

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

How delusional can you be? So he was out of shape at the beginning of the season, out of shape now, when is he in shape? Is Franz in shape? How come his numbers aren't down?

Here comes the apologists

You say he'll "get back to his normal self" after the all star break.

His numbers now are closer to his career averages than the five games at the beginning of the year that included his 50 point game.

What do you think "his normal self" is?

I said and watched the same things from him last season. Paolo is a bad shot taker and tough shot maker, his turnover issues were so bad last year I said he has to be benched. Like seriously there are turnovers and then there are BAD TURNOVERS. I’m okay with a turnover but those bad ones Coach Mo should have pulled him out the game and taught him how valuable taking care of the ball really is. Yes Paolo has a lot to learn, but his mistakes are basic basketball, the things you learn in Middle School or High School.

Teams have figure out how to beat this flawed roster. Paolo gets doubled almost every other possession. What is he supposed to do kick it out to brickmasters Anthony Black or KCP? Teams don't respect our shooting......as they shouldn't bc we cant hit water if we fell out of a boat.

Paolo will get more into game shape as season moves on but we cant ignore this rosters glaring deficiencies. The bottom line is that this front office has done a poor job at balancing this rosters strengths/weaknesses and just expects the power of friendship to somehow make them 40% 3PT shooters.

The-Stallion70 wrote:

JF5 wrote:He came back like 3 weeks ago? After only playing 5 games at the start of the season? He's out of shape and is still trying to get his bearings back. That's on top of re-acclimating to a team that just recently got close to fully healthy and having actual depth 3-4 games ago? The chemistry is clearly off with everyone given how many players have been in and out of the lineup whilst having to shift roles in the last 2-3 months.

I think once things start to settle and they've gained a semblance of continuity and a gameplan that works with him simultaneously shaking off the rust you see him back to his normal self around the allstar game/break.

This typically happens to star players the first or two when they miss a significant amount of time. Your opponents are in mid-season form while he has just literally started his season a few weeks ago since he's only played 5 games which all happened in October.

How delusional can you be? So he was out of shape at the beginning of the season, out of shape now, when is he in shape? Is Franz in shape? How come his numbers aren't down?

Here comes the apologists

You say he'll "get back to his normal self" after the all star break.

His numbers now are closer to his career averages than the five games at the beginning of the year that included his 50 point game.

What do you think "his normal self" is?

I like how angry and emotional you get since I didn't agree with you... if you don't like replies... don't make the topic.

1. Franz played 24 games of NBA regular season basketball by December 6th... He played in the Olympics right before the season. By the time he got hurt and the amount of games he already played in totality in the last few months he was already in basketball shape. Missing only 1 and 1/3 a month of play during the season was not going to hurt him.

Paolo played only 5 regular season games when he got hurt and didn't even make it past October to have his timing and conditioning right. On top of that i don't think you're knowledgeable enough to understand this aspect of the NBA that literally players don't really get into game shape until a month into the season.

That's why you see a Tyrese Haliburton or Jalen Brunson struggle the first month + of a season and then come on by December. Hell, you'll see it in interviews where players and analysts state the season really doesn't start until December because they've gotten their conditioning and timing in pact by that point around Christmas.

I remember a video where people who were so critical of Shaquille O'Neal coasting/conditioning through the season. I believe Brian Shaw or Tyrone Lue explained this stating Phil would purposely have Shaq doing this so he'd be fresher for the playoffs and they didn't want to wear him down when it mattered. The context I'm explaining and relating this to my argument is that player are still trying to get themselves together when the season starts.

I even remember when Mosley after the Chicago game where Paolo got hurt he talked about Paolo still needed to work on his conditioning and timing. Low and behold he gets hurt. So when he comes back 2 months after the fact and having not played enough games and having to rehab an injury in process, whilst not actually having the game experience he'd be ready to face players/teams in the midst of peak mental timing and physical conditioning? Hell no... He's currently not on the same playing field with everyone he's still behind.

This bleeds into my next point

2. The lack of patience... 3 weeks of play (approximately 10 games) after a return of a player coming off an injury where he only played 5 games in totality of the 40 games previously that the team played is somehow a good barometer of determining how good a player is?

LMAO, judging a player off 15 of the 49 games a team played when he's recently just come off of injury not even a full month is ridiculous analysis. Just saying...

This is so similar to Paolo thread that this forum had at the beginning of last season where struggled very similarly like he has recently. It's essentially the same exact thread and unfortunately posters here have short memories.

Get rid of him.

89Magicfan wrote:Let’s not also pretend he’s some generational 10 year vet who has figured it all out surrounded with a team that fits his and Franz’s skill set.

An all star player like him still has growth to achieve.

There about 350 players older than Banchero in the league and 100 younger. He is in the bottom 25% of the league in youth.

There are 11 Magicians older than Banchero + the two T-way players (=13). There are only 3 Magicians younger: Houstan, Howard and Black.

Knightro wrote:Get rid of him.

The intention of this thread is to assess or reassess his outlook as a player. Not quite sure his outlook is a true superstar if his ts% is consistently below the league average.

Its fair to say he's trending down in efficiency. Would we prefer he was trending up? Sure. Can the negative trend be attributed to a special cause that is outside his control? Absolutely. He is just coming back from injury!

his rhythm way off....his legs not all the way back...it seems like an unbelievable amount of rust.....there also could be some mental stuff going on as well it seems to me like he's trying to force his game back