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Back in January, the Detroit Pistons had a chance to compete against an opponent scarcely seen on an NBA court this season: the healthy Orlando Magic. Remember them? Paolo Banchero, Franz Wagner, and Jalen Suggs hadn’t played a single game together since late October, alternating injuries in what has been a snakebitten season in Central Florida. So snakebitten, it turns out, that Suggs couldn’t even make it through Orlando’s grand reunion without picking up a new leg injury that forced him to exit the game early.

Fortunately for the Magic, they still had Banchero and Wagner in uniform. Paolo delivered body blows throughout the first three quarters, and Franz came through with a haymaker in the fourth, sealing up a much-needed win. “This is what your best players do,” Magic head coach Jamahl Mosley told reporters after the game. After spending most of the season watching one another from the sidelines, the two costarring forwards finished with an identical 32 points and seven assists apiece, setting each other up, again and again, for easy scores.

If only it were always that easy. Every game Banchero and Wagner play together is an education—and this season has brought some hard lessons. Orlando’s offense has floundered even with both back in the lineup, as action after action has devolved into a crowded mess. No lead feels safe. The Magic, who at one point ranked third in the East, have crashed all the way to eighth. If last season announced them as a serious playoff team, this season has been a reminder of how far they have to go.

READ MORE: https://www.theringer.com/2025/03/04/nba/orlando-magic-paolo-banchero-franz-wagner (free)

Very long article from Rob Mahoney of The Ringer. 25 minute read.

Weltman with some quotes that should please the masses.

There’s no one true anchor to Orlando’s coverage. There’s just the contract: a mutual agreement by the Magic to dedicate themselves in ways that other teams don’t. To dig every possible possession out of the trenches.

balls to the wall the whole regular season which leads to injuries and overworking players because we're so anemic offensively.

“As the best player or one of the best players, sometimes the call is for you to force the issue,” Banchero says. “I think Franz has always been in control of his game and who he is, so he hasn’t always been used to having to do that. I feel like I have no problem doing that; sometimes that’s a blessing and a curse.

Paolo couldn't have said it any better, blessing and a curse. Now with lack of offense and pushing for wins hero ball comes out and is ugly.

The threat of what Paolo and Franz can do is too great—and too damaging on a scheme level. Maybe this is the cost of being unconventional by design. Since Weltman took over as president of basketball operations in 2017, the Magic have selected 10 players in the first round of the draft. Nine of them have fit a particular formula in terms of physical profile, wide-ranging skill set, and positional versatility. (The other is Cole Anthony.) They’ve picked up a few shooters along the way (KCP, da Silva, Jett Howard), but only those that otherwise fit the mold. Maybe it’s all a big wing too far—and a team with these dimensions is bound to have glitches in the basic execution of its offense. Even revolutions have logistical concerns. Orlando’s are here and in full effect, muddling whatever the Magic might be.

LONG LENGTHY ATHLETIC but CAN"T SHOOT

The Magic are still a concept in search of an offense. The intention is good, but the spacing isn’t. There’s a lot of collective playmaking, but also a lot for a young team to learn in putting that playmaking to use. It’s hard to tell whether this Magic roster yearns for a steady hand at the point or simply needs more room to find that dependability in themselves.

Pretty obvious what the answer to this question is

Simons isn’t an exact fit for the Magic archetype. Yet making a play at contention requires adding talent, and talented players usually require teams to bend in their philosophy. At some point, an up-and-coming club needs to push in its chips: to trade the future for the present, and valued, homegrown talent for something transformative. It could be an out-and-out star. It might be a cornerstone that stabilizes the lineup. “I can say that most of our competitors have made those trades,” Weltman says. “We haven’t. We haven’t yet.”

Sounds like Magic will indeed be pushing in chips during the summer

eyriq wrote:Weltman with some quotes that should please the masses.

Sounds like this was an evaluation year and he is waiting for the right time to strike. This deadline with Suggs hurt and being in the play-in was probably not the correct time.

Which we have been saying and it makes sense, but I understand why people are skeptical.

I think the inconsistent minutes for AB, Jett and TDS kind of undermine it a bit though personally. I get that Jett seems like a lost cause and TDS kind of seems like he is what he is, but I still don't like them getting pulled from games so quickly. AB gets the most consistent minutes of them, but even Mosley defaults to Cole over him most of the time now. I just think they could have leaned a little more into player development especially when the alternatives also stink.

Idiosyncratic wrote:

eyriq wrote:Weltman with some quotes that should please the masses.

Sounds like this was an evaluation year and he is waiting for the right time to strike. This deadline with Suggs hurt and being in the play-in was probably not the correct time.

Which we have been saying and it makes sense, but I understand why people are skeptical.

I think the inconsistent minutes for AB, Jett and TDS kind of undermine it a bit though personally. I get that Jett seems like a lost cause and TDS kind of seems like he is what he is, but I still don't like them getting pulled from games so quickly. AB gets the most consistent minutes of them, but even Mosley defaults to Cole over him most of the time now. I just think they could have leaned a little more into player development especially when the alternatives also stink.

I trust Mosley's player development, I really do. That said, I also agree with you. AB is better than Cole but Cole is the safety blanket? Jett is terrible but so are other options, so why the inconsistency in opportunities? It's been a half-assed player development program for AB and Jett.

eyriq wrote:

Idiosyncratic wrote:

eyriq wrote:Weltman with some quotes that should please the masses.

Sounds like this was an evaluation year and he is waiting for the right time to strike. This deadline with Suggs hurt and being in the play-in was probably not the correct time.

Which we have been saying and it makes sense, but I understand why people are skeptical.

I think the inconsistent minutes for AB, Jett and TDS kind of undermine it a bit though personally. I get that Jett seems like a lost cause and TDS kind of seems like he is what he is, but I still don't like them getting pulled from games so quickly. AB gets the most consistent minutes of them, but even Mosley defaults to Cole over him most of the time now. I just think they could have leaned a little more into player development especially when the alternatives also stink.

I trust Mosley's player development, I really do. That said, I also agree with you. AB is better than Cole but Cole is the safety blanket? Jett is terrible but so are other options, so why the inconsistency in opportunities? It's been a half-assed player development program for AB and Jett.

has it though? Magic are long gone from draft picks just getting run because they're top picks. Jett was so bad he had to be stashed in the G League to work on his game and clearly hasn't gotten much better. Looks like Mose now is playing Jett because the season is lost so why not give Jett 21 games to work through things. That seems like a solid plan and can't be upset Mose was trying to win games prior to this last month.

AB seems to be slowly coming a long but he's too inconsistent and doesn't attack enough. Just don't think he's comfortable being an off-ball guard for Paolo/Franz then thrown into on ball stuff to work with 2nd unit that's void of talent. Moe Wagner certainly would've helped our 2nd unit run smoother. I just worry AB will take too long to show what he can do and is likely 1 of 2 positive assets Orlando could use in a package for another Franz tier'd player.

I just wasted near 20 min reading article that sounds like payed article by Weltman.

The Magic might not know how they’ll score, but they know who they are. Now all they need is to be healthy enough to show it.

If you are injury of 3rd best player away from going from first round exit to losing to tankers, you simply aren't as good as your "masterful builder" thinks.

And that anti Celtics comparison makes sense how?

A little boost could have gone a long way; even in this trying season, the Magic are 18-7 when they shoot at least 32 percent from distance. Then again, maybe that trend is a case for patience—to save the picks and the prospects for a bigger move down the line and bet instead on this group finding some kind of rhythm. The energy of the team is clearly off, but Orlando made 35 percent of its 3s last season with a remarkably similar (albeit much healthier) roster. The bones of a team that won 47 games last season are still there.

How somebody can be payed to write nonsense like this?
Magic bench shot 36,4% for 3. That was 10th best in nba.

Magic starters shot 34,4% for 3 . And you can guess where starters were ranked



Last year whole bunch of people shot way better than they are capable ( for longer period at least).
Carter -career high
Black - way above anything realistic for him ( near 40%)
Isaac- career high
Suggs- career high
Caleb -career high

What bigger move are we talking about? IF you want to keep core of Suggs, Banchero & Franz together, those 3 dudes alone will cost you $115M a year. It's not like there will be room for "bigger deals" any time soon.

pepe1991 wrote:what a pile of nonsense of article



"The Magic might not know how they’ll score, but they know who they are. Now all they need is to be healthy enough to show it.End of article"

if you are 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable mess that loses to tanking teams, you simply aren't good team nor your build makes much sense.

We aren't a 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable. Hilariously simplistic root cause analysis you got there

pepe1991 wrote:what a pile of nonsense of article



"The Magic might not know how they’ll score, but they know who they are. Now all they need is to be healthy enough to show it.End of article"

if you are 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable mess that loses to tanking teams, you simply aren't good team nor your build makes much sense.

Hey now, lets "wait and see what happens" tonight. Any team can beat you once....but a tanking team twice? Now that's an achievement.

eyriq wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:what a pile of nonsense of article



"The Magic might not know how they’ll score, but they know who they are. Now all they need is to be healthy enough to show it.End of article"

if you are 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable mess that loses to tanking teams, you simply aren't good team nor your build makes much sense.

We aren't a 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable. Hilariously simplistic root cause analysis you got there

How else you explain fact that without Suggs, team led by Franz and Paolo on regular bases loses to tanking Raptors, Hawks, Jazz, Blazers, is kept by 79 points by Blazers in another game ?

pepe1991 wrote:

eyriq wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:what a pile of nonsense of article



"The Magic might not know how they’ll score, but they know who they are. Now all they need is to be healthy enough to show it.End of article"

if you are 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable mess that loses to tanking teams, you simply aren't good team nor your build makes much sense.

We aren't a 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable. Hilariously simplistic root cause analysis you got there

How else you explain fact that without Suggs, team led by Franz and Paolo on regular bases loses to tanking Raptors, Hawks, Jazz, Blazers, is kept by 79 points by Blazers in another game ?

1. Paolo and Franz returning from injury
2. In-season discontinuity eroding chemistry
3. Roster construction issues
4. Moritz injury
5. Team tuning out Mosley

All of those factors have an effect on performance. Attributing this all to Suggs is wrong.

"We havent yet" Thats enough glimmer of hope.

eyriq wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:

eyriq wrote:
We aren't a 3rd best player injury away from being unwatchable. Hilariously simplistic root cause analysis you got there

How else you explain fact that without Suggs, team led by Franz and Paolo on regular bases loses to tanking Raptors, Hawks, Jazz, Blazers, is kept by 79 points by Blazers in another game ?

1. Paolo and Franz returning from injury
2. In-season discontinuity eroding chemistry
3. Roster construction issues
4. Moritz injury
5. Team tuning out Mosley

All of those factors have an effect on performance. Attributing this all to Suggs is wrong.

1. They've been back long enough, stop making excuses.
2. Then perhaps stop bringing in, and relying on, players that get injured all the time. Suggs will never be reliable.
3. Suggs is part of the roster construction issues.
4. Another excuse
5. Interesting take since others have mentioned how so many players around the league want to play for him. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency when it comes to evaluating him, this usually means some people are looking at facts, others are letting their emotions control them.

Suggs is hardly the only issue but he's definitely a major one, I'm fairly certain this guy will never play a full NBA season and with yet another severe injury I'm not sure he'll even complete half a season, ever again. The guy is made of glass.

But you guys really need to stop bringing up the injuries, the article made me wonder how much the Magic organization paid this outlet to put this out there.

Knightro wrote:

Read on Twitter

Back in January, the Detroit Pistons had a chance to compete against an opponent scarcely seen on an NBA court this season: the healthy Orlando Magic. Remember them? Paolo Banchero, Franz Wagner, and Jalen Suggs hadn’t played a single game together since late October, alternating injuries in what has been a snakebitten season in Central Florida. So snakebitten, it turns out, that Suggs couldn’t even make it through Orlando’s grand reunion without picking up a new leg injury that forced him to exit the game early.

Fortunately for the Magic, they still had Banchero and Wagner in uniform. Paolo delivered body blows throughout the first three quarters, and Franz came through with a haymaker in the fourth, sealing up a much-needed win. “This is what your best players do,” Magic head coach Jamahl Mosley told reporters after the game. After spending most of the season watching one another from the sidelines, the two costarring forwards finished with an identical 32 points and seven assists apiece, setting each other up, again and again, for easy scores.

If only it were always that easy. Every game Banchero and Wagner play together is an education—and this season has brought some hard lessons. Orlando’s offense has floundered even with both back in the lineup, as action after action has devolved into a crowded mess. No lead feels safe. The Magic, who at one point ranked third in the East, have crashed all the way to eighth. If last season announced them as a serious playoff team, this season has been a reminder of how far they have to go.

READ MORE: https://www.theringer.com/2025/03/04/nba/orlando-magic-paolo-banchero-franz-wagner (free)

Very long article from Rob Mahoney of The Ringer. 25 minute read.

Good article

Redwood wrote:

eyriq wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:
How else you explain fact that without Suggs, team led by Franz and Paolo on regular bases loses to tanking Raptors, Hawks, Jazz, Blazers, is kept by 79 points by Blazers in another game ?

1. Paolo and Franz returning from injury
2. In-season discontinuity eroding chemistry
3. Roster construction issues
4. Moritz injury
5. Team tuning out Mosley

All of those factors have an effect on performance. Attributing this all to Suggs is wrong.

1. They've been back long enough, stop making excuses.
2. Then perhaps stop bringing in, and relying on, players that get injured all the time. Suggs will never be reliable.
3. Suggs is part of the roster construction issues.
4. Another excuse
5. Interesting take since others have mentioned how so many players around the league want to play for him. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency when it comes to evaluating him, this usually means some people are looking at facts, others are letting their emotions control them.

Suggs is hardly the only issue but he's definitely a major one, I'm fairly certain this guy will never play a full NBA season and with yet another severe injury I'm not sure he'll even complete half a season, ever again. The guy is made of glass.

But you guys really need to stop bringing up the injuries, the article made me wonder how much the Magic organization paid this outlet to put this out there.

Players take a while to get back to 100%, brody. I agree 100% about minimizing our injury risk as much as possible. I almost think this is more of a priority objective than improving shooting. Seems in your vocabulary an excuse equals an explanatory factor. Players can love Mosley and Mosley can still be a bad coach. He needs to get his act together and put a proper staff around himself.

“Injuries aren’t a factor”
Meanwhile

?s=46

People are mostly wrong here.

-Suggs is absolutely a factor. His absence proves that.
-Paolo and Franz skillsets aren’t good enough together to sustain an offense.
- People are putting too much emphasis on injuries. It’s just a convenient way of dismissing bad offense and scheme. You are crying wolf when it will inevitably look like ass next season when no changes are made.
-Weltman probably paid them to make every excuse ever.

eyriq wrote:

Redwood wrote:

eyriq wrote:1. Paolo and Franz returning from injury
2. In-season discontinuity eroding chemistry
3. Roster construction issues
4. Moritz injury
5. Team tuning out Mosley

All of those factors have an effect on performance. Attributing this all to Suggs is wrong.

1. They've been back long enough, stop making excuses.
2. Then perhaps stop bringing in, and relying on, players that get injured all the time. Suggs will never be reliable.
3. Suggs is part of the roster construction issues.
4. Another excuse
5. Interesting take since others have mentioned how so many players around the league want to play for him. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency when it comes to evaluating him, this usually means some people are looking at facts, others are letting their emotions control them.

Suggs is hardly the only issue but he's definitely a major one, I'm fairly certain this guy will never play a full NBA season and with yet another severe injury I'm not sure he'll even complete half a season, ever again. The guy is made of glass.

But you guys really need to stop bringing up the injuries, the article made me wonder how much the Magic organization paid this outlet to put this out there.

Players take a while to get back to 100%, brody. I agree 100% about minimizing our injury risk as much as possible. I almost think this is more of a priority objective than improving shooting. Seems in your vocabulary an excuse equals an explanatory factor. Players can love Mosley and Mosley can still be a bad coach. He needs to get his act together and put a proper staff around himself.

If players love a bad coach it means they don't care enough about winning and I want them nowhere near this franchise. And you don't need to explain injuries, we all understand who got injured this season. But it has been many weeks and that excuse is no longer valid. A week or two to get back into a rhythm? Sure. It has been much longer than that, the way you describe it is as if these guys were nearly dead when we brought them back. If they take this long to get back to normal then they were nowhere near healthy and shouldn't have been brought back. They are healthy though, so...it's just an excuse, not an explanation.

“I can say that most of our competitors have made those trades,” Weltman says. “We haven’t. We haven’t yet.”

Lmao no ****.

Redwood wrote:

eyriq wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:
How else you explain fact that without Suggs, team led by Franz and Paolo on regular bases loses to tanking Raptors, Hawks, Jazz, Blazers, is kept by 79 points by Blazers in another game ?

1. Paolo and Franz returning from injury
2. In-season discontinuity eroding chemistry
3. Roster construction issues
4. Moritz injury
5. Team tuning out Mosley

All of those factors have an effect on performance. Attributing this all to Suggs is wrong.

1. They've been back long enough, stop making excuses.
2. Then perhaps stop bringing in, and relying on, players that get injured all the time. Suggs will never be reliable.
3. Suggs is part of the roster construction issues.
4. Another excuse
5. Interesting take since others have mentioned how so many players around the league want to play for him. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency when it comes to evaluating him, this usually means some people are looking at facts, others are letting their emotions control them.

Suggs is hardly the only issue but he's definitely a major one, I'm fairly certain this guy will never play a full NBA season and with yet another severe injury I'm not sure he'll even complete half a season, ever again. The guy is made of glass.

But you guys really need to stop bringing up the injuries, the article made me wonder how much the Magic organization paid this outlet to put this out there.

Makes sense, but Suggs is “never” reliable is a lie. He was reliable last year.

Suggs is the engine of this team. He isn’t the driver, but he adds the gasoline to the fire. The team has been lethargic without him.

Moritz going down is not just an excuse. It is just your failure to acknowledge that he plays a huge role off the bench. He’s basically easy buckets for our 2nd lineup.

The problem is really the roster construction. Look at the Pistons, they added high volume shooters, we added low volume shooters. Not to mention, the talent disparity of the bench and our starting five.

The loss of Suggs makes you play Cole Anthony more, Cole was basically a benchwarmer already. Cory Joseph too.

Roster is just too **** up now. We’re basically playing Goga, Cole and Jett major minutes. These 3 weren’t even projected to play major minutes at the start of the season.