ImageImageImageImage

Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade

Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass

User avatar
Black and Blue
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,837
And1: 1,723
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
       

Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#1 » by Black and Blue » Sun Jun 15, 2025 10:02 pm

I’m a bit picky with opinions I trust in sports media, but Matt Moore and the team at Hardwood Paroxysm are one of the best at all the good nerdy NBA analytics. Here is what they had to say on the Bane deal (note to mods, this is a portion of the larger article, the Memphis side of the deal is available via their substack subscription):

THE MAGIC SPLIT THE GAP

The biggest problem for the Magic headed into both the trade deadline and this offseason was that their problem wasn’t simple. The Rockets need a go-to offensive scoring engine. That’s hard to land, but not hard to find. The Thunder last offseason needed a low-usage, high-rebound big man. That’s hard to land, but not hard to find.

The Magic, though, had to slide a player through a very narrow lane. They needed

Someone, anyone who can shoot, who can put the round thing through the circle with the big net on it.
Someone who could do so without needing the ball in his hands a ton, because you want the ball in the hands of Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. So someone who can score with a low usage and time of possession rate.
BUT! You also needed someone who can handle the ball in the minutes without those two together so they don’t have to bring the ball up and set the offense, and score. You needed someone who could play the point guard role… but not a point guard.
You needed someone who fit the culture of caring about defense and hyper-professionalism.
You needed someone young enough to grow with the rest of the roster.
Desmond Bane is…

A career 18-point per game scorer who averaged 19 last season, a career 41 percent three-point shooter who shot 39 percent in a down season.
A player who generated 66% of his offense outside of pick and roll and isolation, including 17 percent of his total offense on spot-up opportunities.
A player who also had 654 pick-and-roll possessions with a 0.96 points per possession rate (ranked “good” by Synergy) with a five-dimes-per-game average.
A mature, responsible player who always owned up to the team’s failures even when Ja and Dillon would pout and not speak to the media, a guy everyone not named Santi Aldama seemed to get along with and like playing with.
26 years old.
He’s perfect.

He splits the triple-team for them.

We look at “FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS” but let’s break it down.

Are the players you get with the picks the valuable part? Because Orlando’s going to be drafting top ten over the next five years, barring season-ending injuries.
Yes, one of those players might wind up being a black swan bloomer who turns into an All-Star on a rookie-scale contract. That’s possible. Memphis might draft a guy who everyone says “Orlando could have had (whoever).”
But the vast majority of those picks are not that; they are at best rotation guys. And for a team like Orlando, they become “players you can’t get minutes for.” So they sit on the bench and don’t improve in their trade value, and don’t get experience to make themselves better. They are just roster spots you had to take up.
“But the picks are the value part.” You could trade two picks in two deals or one pick in four deals, etc.
Yes! Those trades might even get you a player as good as… Desmond Bane!
Orlando faces an uphill climb with getting guys who want to play in Orlando, who want to join a young team, who want to be part of this specific team.
None of those picks have the value of a guy who fits your culture and fits your basketball needs.
Desmond might not shoot well. KCP was a great shooter until he arrived in Orlando, and then he had his worst season. There’s real tension to improve the offense not just in the results but the process. Paolo Banchero, sources say, is frustrated with the offense.

However, the most likely outcome here is that Orlando acquires a component that makes everything easier for everyone, and the offense undergoes some reinvention with the addition of new pieces. It improves to league-average, ultimately making the team look like a contender.

From a financial perspective, Desmond is expected to earn $36 to $42 million per year, with the cap rising with the new media deal over the next four years. Banchero is extension-eligible next year. Franz is locked in below $50 million until the last year of his extension. This is a little on the high side and is going to make the back end of Orlando’s depth worse, but it’s a structure they can work with.

This was the move they needed to make.

Continue reading at Hardwood Paroxysm


https://bsky.app/profile/hpbasketball.bsky.social/post/3lroef6v3tp2s
User avatar
MagicMadness
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,809
And1: 3,397
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#2 » by MagicMadness » Sun Jun 15, 2025 10:34 pm

I agree with the analysis - especially when it comes to the picks. However, it should be noted that Memphis taking over KCP's bloated contract is likely why we had to part with at least 1.5 (the .5 being the Phoenix swap?) of those picks.

We keep hearing from non-Magic fans how 'you guys gave up 4 picks!!'...well, do any of them note that we STILL have the #25 pick in the upcoming draft? No. Why? Because nobody cares about picks in the '20s! And if the Magic stay healthy, then on paper we're drafting in the '20s for the next 3-5 years...

And if we don't stay healthy, then fine, it wasn't meant to be.

If there were any time to take a big swing in the East, NOW was it.
User avatar
Black and Blue
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,837
And1: 1,723
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
       

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#3 » by Black and Blue » Sun Jun 15, 2025 10:44 pm

MagicMadness wrote:I agree with the analysis - especially when it comes to the picks. However, it should be noted that Memphis taking over KCP's bloated contract is likely why we had to part with at least 1.5 (the .5 being the Phoenix swap?) of those picks.

We keep hearing from non-Magic fans how 'you guys gave up 4 picks!!'...well, do any of them note that we STILL have the #25 pick in the upcoming draft? No. Why? Because nobody cares about picks in the '20s! And if the Magic stay healthy, then on paper we're drafting in the '20s for the next 3-5 years...

And if we don't stay healthy, then fine, it wasn't meant to be.

If there were any time to take a big swing in the East, NOW was it.


Magicmadness! It’s Black and Blue from way back in the day (Tony soprano avatar on your site). What’s up amigo :beer:
User avatar
MagicMadness
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,809
And1: 3,397
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#4 » by MagicMadness » Sun Jun 15, 2025 10:48 pm

Black and Blue wrote:
MagicMadness wrote:I agree with the analysis - especially when it comes to the picks. However, it should be noted that Memphis taking over KCP's bloated contract is likely why we had to part with at least 1.5 (the .5 being the Phoenix swap?) of those picks.

We keep hearing from non-Magic fans how 'you guys gave up 4 picks!!'...well, do any of them note that we STILL have the #25 pick in the upcoming draft? No. Why? Because nobody cares about picks in the '20s! And if the Magic stay healthy, then on paper we're drafting in the '20s for the next 3-5 years...

And if we don't stay healthy, then fine, it wasn't meant to be.

If there were any time to take a big swing in the East, NOW was it.


Magicmadness! It’s Black and Blue from way back in the day (Tony soprano avatar on your site). What’s up amigo :beer:


Yup man, absolutely remember. :beer:

Hope you're doing well! I'm feeling pretty darn good after this trade. 8-)
User avatar
Black and Blue
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,837
And1: 1,723
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
       

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#5 » by Black and Blue » Sun Jun 15, 2025 10:51 pm

MagicMadness wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:
MagicMadness wrote:I agree with the analysis - especially when it comes to the picks. However, it should be noted that Memphis taking over KCP's bloated contract is likely why we had to part with at least 1.5 (the .5 being the Phoenix swap?) of those picks.

We keep hearing from non-Magic fans how 'you guys gave up 4 picks!!'...well, do any of them note that we STILL have the #25 pick in the upcoming draft? No. Why? Because nobody cares about picks in the '20s! And if the Magic stay healthy, then on paper we're drafting in the '20s for the next 3-5 years...

And if we don't stay healthy, then fine, it wasn't meant to be.

If there were any time to take a big swing in the East, NOW was it.


Magicmadness! It’s Black and Blue from way back in the day (Tony soprano avatar on your site). What’s up amigo :beer:


Yup man, absolutely remember. :beer:

Hope you're doing well! I'm feeling pretty darn good after this trade. 8-)


Hell yeah me too man. Wish you and your fam the best.

Nothing like a win now trade to bring old compadres together.

Back to the trade: I’m finding it very telling so many of the smartest NBA people LOVE this deal for Orlando while the talking heads are so focused on the four picks they can’t compute it.

Weltman, you did well.

That said there is still work to be done. Let’s see how he rounds out this roster. I’m hoping we can move the Isaac deal for the TPE so we can use the MLE.
JoshuaPotter
Analyst
Posts: 3,514
And1: 998
Joined: Dec 19, 2022
   

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#6 » by JoshuaPotter » Mon Jun 16, 2025 5:23 pm

I generally agree with the analysis. This was it, last call. Draft capital from the draft this year going forward if not used we would be essentially stuck with. We * could * have been a repeatable 50 win team if healthy June 14th, now the chips are pushed in and anything less then a 50 win team is unacceptable and coaches if not the front office will be moved.

If we are a 50 win team and all the picks are in the 20s and the Grizz manage to score someone big. Great! Good for them! I doubt Hennigan would. It's a risk worth taking. Our gaps are still pretty big in my humble opinion but we still have 2-3 developing pieces on the back burner and perhaps can find someone "hungry" for the "C" spot and continue to search for him.

The last note on shooting. For us to get out of the depths of hades we are in Paolo and Franz need to just become at or near league average. If this changes or happens then 60 wins are not uncalled for as several of our players can make shots they just cannot be the only ones with minor usage.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 39,052
And1: 8,904
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#7 » by drsd » Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:21 pm

This was the move they needed to make


Correct.

Orlando sent out two underperforming players, and four projected low-end rotational players for a near All-star. A player that is EXACTLY the player the Magic needs (in my opinion).

What if Caldwell-Pope returns to form and Anthony blossoms, and the Grizzlies strike gold in the draft? Good for them then. Heck: if the outcome here is Memphis meets Orlando in the NBA Finals because of this trade, I am really OK with that.

Look: the Pacers and the Thunder are in the NBA Finals because both teams traded away George. It's really ok.
User avatar
Black and Blue
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,837
And1: 1,723
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
       

Re: Hardwood Paroxysm on Bane trade 

Post#8 » by Black and Blue » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:16 am

drsd wrote:
This was the move they needed to make


Correct.

Orlando sent out two underperforming players, and four projected low-end rotational players for a near All-star. A player that is EXACTLY the player the Magic needs (in my opinion).

What if Caldwell-Pope returns to form and Anthony blossoms, and the Grizzlies strike gold in the draft? Good for them then. Heck: if the outcome here is Memphis meets Orlando in the NBA Finals because of this trade, I am really OK with that.

Look: the Pacers and the Thunder are in the NBA Finals because both teams traded away George. It's really ok.


And this is why it’s great we traded with Memphis. They’re in the West, they aren’t a contender, their fanbase isn’t an annoying pile of garbage (Lakers).

It’s the big thing that gave me pause with Garland and some other names like Trae: those teams are our direct competitors and we would have to hope we bested them. From what I understand, the Grizzlies and Magic have been talking deals for years (mostly the Grizzlies inquiring about wanting to trade for Franz) so they have a good relationship.

Return to Orlando Magic