OT: Kobe vs. T-Mac

[KingRobb02]

After Peyton Manning's loss yesterday, I heard him compared to McGrady because neither can seem to win when it matters most. Then the McGrady fan in me kicked in, and I wanted to protest that, year in and year out Mcgrady wins 40 games and the past 4 years he has carried his team in the playoffs losing in game 7 each time while Yao disappears. Just to be fair, I also appreciate Peyton, but since he isn't even on the fireld when his team is blowing leads, I don't see why he gets so much greif. I just never understood why people always took it as a foregone conclusion that Kobe was great and Tracy was second teir. Then I found this Wages of Win article that compares the two using numbers. its a pretty good read, if you are bored, or if you still care about McGrady.

[theTHIEF]

Manning won a ring and isnt half man, half a season, so the person comparing is mentally challenged...

[TNMagicFan]

After Peyton Manning's loss yesterday, I heard him compared to McGrady because neither can seem to win when it matters most.

Manning did win a Super Bowl . I would call that winning when it matters

[Devin 1L]

Kobe, easily.

As for the WoW -- well, a lot of their stuff is questionable to say the least.

With that said, I do enjoy reading it.

[xcomputerman]

Manning won a ring and isnt half man, half a season, so the person comparing is mentally challenged...

This comment is hilarious, coming from someone who bases his opinions on random locker room jokes as opposed to detailed, sophisticated statistical computation and analysis.

[TooNice00]

tracy is on the trading block for the right deal would anyone want him back on our team?

[N4U|Redux]

I'm not convinced Kobe can carry a team on his own as the #1 guy as Tmac has proven to.

Neither of them have had particularly great successes leading their teams. What has Kobe really done without Shaq that Tmac didn't accomplish here in Orlando?

Short answer is, James is better than both of them.

[MagicFan3]

Manning: one ring
Kobe: three rings
T-Mac: zero rings

One of these things is not like the other...

[EasternMagic]

uhhhh serious???? tmac doesnt play half the season

[oakfanintheeast]

did you see Manning play yesterday? He was unreal. The two picks were tipped by receivers and then intercepted. He absolutely picked apart their defense. Not his fault Addaii was invisible.

Blaming one player who doesnt win is silly. Manning is one of the greatest QBs ever.

What series was Tmac supposed to win?? Detroit? no, they were better than the magic. Jazz? no, jazz are better than the rockets. People insanely put way too much into one guys playoff record.

[N4U|Redux]

Manning: one ring
Kobe: three rings
T-Mac: zero rings

One of these things is not like the other...

Rings without Shaq?

Hell, playoff second round appearances without Shaq?

'Nuff said.

[MagicFan3]

-= original quote snipped =-



Rings without Shaq?

Hell, playoff second round appearances without Shaq?

'Nuff said.

Fair enough, but with that argument, Pippen sucked too.

Oh wait, even Pippen got to the conference finals alone...

[theTHIEF]

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This comment is hilarious, coming from someone who bases his opinions on random locker room jokes as opposed to detailed, sophisticated statistical computation and analysis.

oh snap you got me...you seem to know me so well...right down to the T and all...

must be a Tracy fan, feelings hurt?

want some tissue?

[N4U|Redux]

Fair enough, but with that argument, Pippen sucked too.

I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is it's hardly conclusive based on what you said.

If Kobe is better than Tmac it's for other reasons than those that you stated (i.e. championship rings). Kobe has hardly proven that he is a championship leader.

Arguments why Kobe is better based on observation:
-He's arguably played as efficiently w/o Shaq as he did with Shaq.
-Despite being the #1 option, Kobe is still an all-defensive caliber player. Tmac often gets excused for being subpar defensively sometimes because he "takes on so much offensive load."
-Kobe is more clutch.
-Tmac has a lazy eye.

There are others (and there are some for Tmac over Kobe). I'm not sure who I'd rather have on a team if I didn't have personal disdain for Kobe (the rapist/adulterer).

[Devin 1L]

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Rings without Shaq?

Hell, playoff second round appearances without Shaq?

'Nuff said.

It's a fair point, but look who Kobe had been surrounded with post-Shaq.

In contrast, McGrady has now been paired with Yao Ming and has yet to show anything for it.


This isn't meant to hate on McGrady. I loved him with the Magic and I think he's got all the talent in the world, but when it comes to McGrady vs. Kobe, well, it's an easy one for me, and I don't particularly like Kobe. (ie. If I could kick it with either one, I'd pick McGrady easily.)

I think the two biggest factors that separate the two, in my opinion, I think you touched on in your next post:

1. Defense
2. Clutch/tenacity/killer instinct/etc.

Not very often do you come across a player as good on both ends of the floor as Kobe Bryant. Tracy isn't hurtin' on the offensive end, but he's not at Kobe's level on the defensive end.

The second part, which I kind of lumped together, is probably something that is more innate than anything. I don't really know. Anyhow, it's that confidence and killer instinct (with the talent to back it up) that just puts him on another level than pretty much anyone else.

There is no one I would want more than Kobe Bryant taking the last shot in a game for me. And as a Magic fan, there is no one I would fear more (other than Jannero Pargo, of course) with the ball at the end of a game.

I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is it's hardly conclusive based on what you said.

If Kobe is better than Tmac it's for other reasons than those that you stated (i.e. championship rings). Kobe has hardly proven that he is a championship leader.

Arguments why Kobe is better based on observation:
-He's arguably played as efficiently w/o Shaq as he did with Shaq.
-Despite being the #1 option, Kobe is still an all-defensive caliber player. Tmac often gets excused for being subpar defensively sometimes because he "takes on so much offensive load."
-Kobe is more clutch.
-Tmac has a lazy eye.

There are others (and there are some for Tmac over Kobe). I'm not sure who I'd rather have on a team if I didn't have personal disdain for Kobe (the rapist/adulterer).

[MagicNolesFSU]

LBJ is the best offensive basketball player in the world right now.

KB24 is the best complete basketball player in the world right now.


But tmac is still awsome. Seriously he singlehandedly carried our sorry butts to the playoffs when he was here and Grant was just doing nothing. Id welcome him back. Hes a hell of a offensive player and ok defensively.

[Devin 1L]

LBJ is the best offensive basketball player in the world right now.

KB24 is the best complete basketball player in the world right now.


But tmac is still awsome. Seriously he singlehandedly carried our sorry butts to the playoffs when he was here and Grant was just doing nothing. Id welcome him back. Hes a hell of a offensive player and ok defensively.

I don't care if LeBron is leading the league in scoring, Kobe is a better offensive player, in my opinion.

It's funny, I'd imagine that if you polled people, that they'd actually say the reverse of what you said. LeBron: Complete, Kobe: Offensive

[KingRobb02]

First of all, Lebron is a much better offensive player than Kobe if you take into account the fact that he scores more than Kobe and he gets a more assists with lesser talent.

For the other stuff, there is an article on the same site that talks about Kobe myths which tries to use facts to debunk the notion that Kobe is the best player in the world who just happens to have bad teamamates. I don't think Kobe's one on one defense is a big factor since the NBA is a team game whwere help defense means all the world. No one brings up the fact that Billups is the better defender when comparing him to the other great point guards.

Also what supports the notion that Kobe is a better defender anyway? his steals are a little higher but McGrady wins in rebounds blocks and opponent efficiency. As for clutch, why do we call Kobe clutch? Carmelo leads the league in clutch shots over the past 3 years, and Gilbert Arenas would never have pulled a stunt like not taking a shot in the second half of an elimination game that Kobe tried in the 2006 playoffs. i just think that the stuff we use to say Kobe is the best is intangible and therefore should not be the deciding factor. What exactly is the "Will to Win"?

[TooNice00]

uh kobe is def a better offfensive player than lebron. kobe can actually make fts and shoots better from 3 point land. and is just a better shooter in general. he only players 37 mpg where as lebron plays 40. kobe could easily score 2 more points in those 3 extra minutes. lebron is a better play maker and rebounder and thats about it.

[CourtsideTV]

tmac the year he averaged 31 ppg with orlando > kobe and what he did prior to when shaq left

kobe now > what tmac used to do with the magic.