ImageImageImageImage

On the Dan Sileo Show Otis......

Moderators: Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, UCF, ChosenSavior

TooNice00
Banned User
Posts: 2,653
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 11, 2006

 

Post#61 » by TooNice00 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:21 pm

at least our GM is smart enough to build around howard or at least not dumb enough not to. but getting howard is a perfect example of luck, we sucked at the right time, and got lucky howard is as good as he is because nobody thought he would play like this on draft night in 2004. being a GM, there is a lot of luck involved. really look at the spurs, can't get anymore lucky than that.
mttingly2391
Sophomore
Posts: 141
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 11, 2008

 

Post#62 » by mttingly2391 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:25 pm

Wow, you call the spurs lucky. They were luck to get Duncan. But it is the skill of the GM to put the right pieces around your franchise player. And that is what they have done. I wouldn't call that luck. Year after year they are competing because their front office knows how to build a championship team. If you think the Spurs are lucky to be in it every year, then I don't know what to say anymore.
User avatar
mhectorgato
RealGM
Posts: 29,446
And1: 574
Joined: Jan 11, 2005
Location: Finals Baby!
 

 

Post#63 » by mhectorgato » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:27 pm

mttingly2391 wrote:Wow, you call the spurs lucky. They were luck to get Duncan. But it is the skill of the GM to put the right pieces around your franchise player. And that is what they have done. I wouldn't call that luck. Year after year they are competing because their front office knows how to build a championship team. If you think the Spurs are lucky to be in it every year, then I don't know what to say anymore.


It also helps that they were "lucky" that Robinson got hurt when Timmy was coming out of college. Had it been different year ....

But they have made many good moves and gotten a couple really good foreign players.
NEM wrote: However, I'm a fan of my team winning so, keep the winning coming. All the "tank" fans can take their crap to another board. We are here to win.
TooNice00
Banned User
Posts: 2,653
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 11, 2006

 

Post#64 » by TooNice00 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:28 pm

mttingly2391 wrote:Wow, you call the spurs lucky. They were luck to get Duncan. But it is the skill of the GM to put the right pieces around your franchise player. And that is what they have done. I wouldn't call that luck. Year after year they are competing because their front office knows how to build a championship team. If you think the Spurs are lucky to be in it every year, then I don't know what to say anymore.


do you not think it is luck for david robinson to be out for the year duncan is availabe. for them to draft people like tony parker very late in the first round. or how about getting manu with the 56th pick or something. luck at its best.
mttingly2391
Sophomore
Posts: 141
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 11, 2008

 

Post#65 » by mttingly2391 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:36 pm

Its weird but didn't I say they were luck to get Duncan. You guys should really read what I post before criticizing me. Also, the flip side of that could be that they saw something in those players that the other teams didn't. Its great that they fell to them, but they still had to pull the trigger and draft them.

Right on Mhectorgato...you got it right with the spurs.
TooNice00
Banned User
Posts: 2,653
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 11, 2006

 

Post#66 » by TooNice00 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:54 pm

but whatever only thing that got people really questioning otis was the rashard signing but i am sure he also noticed after that year we weren't gonna be able to sign anyone anway. its not really an excuse for him to sign rashard for that much but still its not like we were gonna be under the cap in two years and could sign anything big free agent.
TooNice00
Banned User
Posts: 2,653
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 11, 2006

 

Post#67 » by TooNice00 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:21 pm

mttingly2391 wrote:Its weird but didn't I say they were luck to get Duncan. You guys should really read what I post before criticizing me. Also, the flip side of that could be that they saw something in those players that the other teams didn't. Its great that they fell to them, but they still had to pull the trigger and draft them.

Right on Mhectorgato...you got it right with the spurs.


its mostly luck. a player like manu falling all the way to the 56th pick is pretty much unheard of. and even people like tony parker late in the first round is really unheard of. its like gilbert(31st pick) and redd (43rd pick). people consider those picks luck.
BAMBAEXPRESS
Analyst
Posts: 3,601
And1: 1,485
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Location: Negative Land
       

 

Post#68 » by BAMBAEXPRESS » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:23 pm

As I see it, Otis made only one good move: trading Francis for Ariza and Penny. If one good move makes a GM a good one, then all 30 GMs in the league are great.
1. Nelson- questionable to sign him for a long term deal. If he was indeed a starting quality PG, we would not have been having discussions a few weeks ago about Arroyo v. Nelson, Nelson v. Dooling

2. Draft: 2005- Fran, 2006- JJ, 2007- none. We would be in better shape if we got at least 1 quality starter from the last 3 drafts.

3. Letting Darko and Grant Hill walk with nothing in return. This reminds me of when Shaq left and we had nothing to show for it. The Hill thing might also be the fault of the whole Magic management but Otis should have gotten something back for Darko. We lost a draft pick and Darko.

4. Ariza trade- I have no idea what Otis was thinking here. Evans is a NBA player but Cook is worthless and I doubt any team views him as more than a 12th man on the roster.

5. Lewis contract- I think the jury is going to be out on this but the salary cap restrictions are going to be felt for a long time. My only worry is 2-3 years of 40-45 wins, continuous first round exits might make Dwight think about skipping town. Lewis's contract handcuffs the Magic so it will be interesting to see how things unfold.

So its 4-5 bad moves and 1 good move for Otis. I don't consider drafting Dwight on Otis's side because its hard to judge that it was purely Otis's call. Even if that were true, its 2 good for 5 bad moves. That doesn't exactly get my vote of confidence.

My prediction: 2 straight years of being a first-round, mid level team, then Otis gets canned and the roster gets a makeover minus Lewis and Howard. I can see Hedo getting traded for a PG or PF and all of us will be wishing Lewis, Nelson and Cook were gone.
I love the Magic!
knappy
Junior
Posts: 274
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 24, 2007

 

Post#69 » by knappy » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:33 pm

On Otis, I still think he can pan out - he has made some mistakes, but he has made some good moves and has said the right things. I think he has blown a few moves, but I am not ready to toss him out yet - if he screws up this year and next year with all the expirings then I may change my opinion of him, but right now I still have faith in him.

I think he played a significant role in BHill being gone and for that he gets a free 2 years from me as I couldn't stand BHill - think about how much you disliked him then multiply it by 100 and that is how much I wanted him gone.

Anyway, I would have preferred Otis to say - we are not going to make any moves for the sake of making moves and we it looks like we are going to stay pat, but if a deal makes sense it would only be foolish to not at least consider it.

Otis, just let us know that you would like a PF still, but it may or may not happen - and why just say no interest in Weber or Brown - that is just stupid - they would be an improvement for us.
User avatar
EasternMagic
RealGM
Posts: 15,102
And1: 835
Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Location: Orlando
     

 

Post#70 » by EasternMagic » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:49 pm

thEthIEf wrote:i actually like Otis...


......
.....
....
...
..
.


:uhoh:


ya so do i he got us SVG and fired B Hill and made sure we kept dwight and got rashard (regardless of how much hes getting paid hes still a good pickup) the only negative thing i have felt otis has done while here was trade ariza but thats looking a tad bit better just because of how mo has been playing and MAYBE Cook can start playing a little better after that game the other night. But im waiting to see if hes lying about this no trade thing. if he is than hopefully he pulls in a decent pf. and if he isnt lying we should definitely see an increase in play for cook and redick.
mattyBoi
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,583
And1: 683
Joined: Dec 18, 2007
Location: The Truth

 

Post#71 » by mattyBoi » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:50 pm

I agree man im gunna give otis this year with the expirings and all, and this summer with the Midlevel Exception and see what he can do with it.

This should be like his final evaluation and if he fails that should be the last straw.
magictreat
Pro Prospect
Posts: 957
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 25, 2002
Location: orlando

 

Post#72 » by magictreat » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:30 am

mhectorgato wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

otis smith hasn't been a terrific GM but he hasn't been horrible

Agreed.
lol, Just give him more time, lol
Devin 1L
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 15,126
And1: 954
Joined: Jun 11, 2003
 

 

Post#73 » by Devin 1L » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:06 am

GortatExpress wrote:As I see it, Otis made only one good move: trading Francis for Ariza and Penny. If one good move makes a GM a good one, then all 30 GMs in the league are great.

1. Nelson- questionable to sign him for a long term deal. If he was indeed a starting quality PG, we would not have been having discussions a few weeks ago about Arroyo v. Nelson, Nelson v. Dooling.


Who would you have signed if you were in his shoes?

Of course, assuming that you could indeed sign them.

2. Draft: 2005- Fran, 2006- JJ, 2007- none. We would be in better shape if we got at least 1 quality starter from the last 3 drafts.


Yeah, that'd be great, but how many teams drafted starters after our pick?

2006: One? Two? Hell, even look at the two guys right before Redick: Sene, and O'Bryant.

2005: Again, one? Two?

3. Letting Darko and Grant Hill walk with nothing in return. This reminds me of when Shaq left and we had nothing to show for it. The Hill thing might also be the fault of the whole Magic management but Otis should have gotten something back for Darko. We lost a draft pick and Darko.


What do you propose we should have done?

People tend to ignore how things actually work, and just assume "Oh, Darko, we should have got something for him."

Even if you dream up something that might have worked, you can't just assume people would have went for it.

4. Ariza trade- I have no idea what Otis was thinking here. Evans is a NBA player but Cook is worthless and I doubt any team views him as more than a 12th man on the roster.


What happens at the end of the year had we kept Ariza? Or do we just throw all that out of consideration?

Evan has been playing well here, and he's a veteran who can probably be kept for relatively cheap if we want to hang onto him.

5. Lewis contract- I think the jury is going to be out on this but the salary cap restrictions are going to be felt for a long time. My only worry is 2-3 years of 40-45 wins, continuous first round exits might make Dwight think about skipping town. Lewis's contract handcuffs the Magic so it will be interesting to see how things unfold.


I agree that we'll see how it goes, we obviously see the future of this team differently, but just to clarify, it's not like we could have just saved the cap space for this off-season or the next, or whatever it is that people act like we could or should have done.

So its 4-5 bad moves and 1 good move for Otis. I don't consider drafting Dwight on Otis's side because its hard to judge that it was purely Otis's call. Even if that were true, its 2 good for 5 bad moves. That doesn't exactly get my vote of confidence.


What a ridiculous way to look at it.

Yes, weigh something like drafting Dwight and trading Ariza for Evans and Cook, and letting Darko walk equally.

If we had drafted Emeka, but kept Darko and Ariza, would Otis be great? I mean that's "2 good for 1 bad". Come on.

My prediction: 2 straight years of being a first-round, mid level team, then Otis gets canned and the roster gets a makeover minus Lewis and Howard. I can see Hedo getting traded for a PG or PF and all of us will be wishing Lewis, Nelson and Cook were gone.


To each their own.

I don't see it happening that way, but we'll just have to wait and see.
User avatar
Shishnizzle
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,879
And1: 19
Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Location: Orlando, Fl

 

Post#74 » by Shishnizzle » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:44 am

Why is every thread an argument. I tell you right now, I know I would'nt be able to live with most of you a hoes. lol break that one down biatches.
User avatar
flyingvee
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,697
And1: 17
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Location: Orlando

 

Post#75 » by flyingvee » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:46 am

UCF wrote:Yes we need a better pg, but so does more than half of the league. Get over it. I wouldn't want J-Kidd here either, he's getting old and costs wayyy too much.



So you'd rather not have Kidd here and have about 3 serious seasons of contention but rather have Nelson for 10 more seasons of sub-500 ball?
User avatar
flyingvee
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,697
And1: 17
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Location: Orlando

 

Post#76 » by flyingvee » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:59 am

mhectorgato wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



When he would have been sitting on the bench for so many games now?

He would just have turned into an expiring rather than a player with potential.



Do you really seriously believe that? As crappy as this team has played you think Ariza would be sitting on the bench while scrub Evans is playing? We did the Lakers a favor by taking dead wood off them, Cook and giving them a much better player in Ariza for Evans.
User avatar
Cammo101
Mr. Mock Draft
Posts: 29,985
And1: 1,637
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Austin, TX
     

 

Post#77 » by Cammo101 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:05 am

Give Otis the time to finish his rebuild. We are in a better spot since he took over than we were when he took over.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,446
And1: 8,226
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

 

Post#78 » by Bensational » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:15 am

UCF wrote:I don't get all the hate on Otis, you guys act as if he should come out and lay his cards down for all to read. This guy got us a better coach, got dwight signed to a long term contract, brought in a very solid player in Lewis(whom I think will get better), etc.

Yes we need a better pg, but so does more than half of the league. Get over it. I wouldn't want J-Kidd here either, he's getting old and costs wayyy too much.

The historically successful teams are the ones who have been together playing for a while. Give them time to get it together.


i get it. some people see the mistakes Otis has made and how inactive he appears on TV and they aren't happy with it. others see the additions he's made to the team and they're happy with that. glass half full/glass half empty.

personally, i like the guy. but i'm not gonna stop people from disliking him if they've got legit reasons not to (management wise).
theTHIEF
RealGM
Posts: 12,939
And1: 214
Joined: Aug 08, 2003
 

 

Post#79 » by theTHIEF » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:19 am

it's all crap until Otis get's that one more player or pulls off that one more awesome move then he'll be a savior and you wont be able to find an admitted Otis hater for 700 miles around here...
User avatar
MoGrAdY
RealGM
Posts: 10,892
And1: 49
Joined: May 21, 2003
Location: I pwn RealGM
         

 

Post#80 » by MoGrAdY » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:32 am

Your right Theif. I get frustrated with his lack of info. But at the same time if he came out and said "Were shopping all of our expirings, trying to bring in a legit bigman" it wouldnt make any sense. The players (Dooling / Mo / Arroyo) would all be affected by it. In reality he very well could be working the lines. And while he has been so horrible he did land us Lewis. He did make sure Dwight didnt bolt. Hes done some good things.
Image

Return to Orlando Magic