question on behalf of the pacers

sanddude909 · Post #1 » by **sanddude909** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:52 pm

Warriors fan trolling here.

The Pacers' board has an 'if you were the GM how would you fix the Pacers?" thread going on right now.

My attempt to fix the Pacers has them get (relatively speaking) crappy talent and extra picks in exchange for O'neal. So would you guys do this deal (Trade ID #4443080):

O'Neal to Orlando

Battie, Dooling, Arroyo, Garrity plus first round picks in 08 and 10 to Indiana (but I'll take 2012's also if you'll throw it in rofl).

that would allow you to start Hoard, O'Neal, and Lewis up front with Hedo being the first big off the bench.

laVal03 · Post #2 » by **laVal03** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:03 pm

Hell to the No

A couple of years ago..YES but IMO he doesn't have that much left in the tank and is injured way too often so when we are talking two firsts, NO way

paperboymafia · Post #3 » by **paperboymafia** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:13 pm

nah...two firsts is too much and as was said above... injury prone.

MagicFan3 · Post #4 » by **MagicFan3** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:04 am

2 first rounders for JO? I just threw up a little.

numbas · Post #5 » by **numbas** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:09 am

AdamTheGreek · Post #6 » by **AdamTheGreek** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:13 am

Christ, people are talking about Shaq being 'finished', where the hell would you put Jermaine? Dead?! :rofl:

drsd · Post #7 » by **drsd** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:12 am

If GM Smith could get O'Neal for a rade that excluded Nelson, Turkoglu, Lewis, and Howard, basically any player in any combination would be considered.

As the Magic firsts would be lowish, they are not great value. That said, more total players from the Pacers would need to be included to balance out the Magic bench.

As for the above negativity from Magic fans, for me, it is clear that in O'Neal was on a winning team, and could stop "giving up," he would again move towards a 20/10 guy. (thus the Magic would have four players with >15ppg)

EasternMagic · Post #8 » by **EasternMagic** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:50 am

no way i dont want him come back when you have a thread giving us jason kidd or jose calderon or charlie villanueva or shawn marion maybe even lebron james

sanddude909 · Post #9 » by **sanddude909** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:27 am

drsd wrote:If GM Smith could get O'Neal for a rade that excluded Nelson, Turkoglu, Lewis, and Howard, basically any player in any combination would be considered.

As the Magic firsts would be lowish, they are not great value. That said, more total players from the Pacers would need to be included to balance out the Magic bench.

As for the above negativity from Magic fans, for me, it is clear that in O'Neal was on a winning team, and could stop "giving up," he would again move towards a 20/10 guy. (thus the Magic would have four players with >15ppg)

I honestly don't know what the state of the Pacer's bench is. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that orlando would just sign guys out of the d-league to fill the roster spots. I suppose a second player from the Pacers could be involved, but then you'd have to add cash or yet another player to balance out the salaries, which explains why I didn't pursue it.

I have to admit that I'm surprised to hear the negative reaction to the 08 and 10 picks. My expectation is that Orlando would be drafting around the 25th spot and didn't think you valued picks that low that much. It's not as though you'd be giving up two top-5 picks, or even two lottery picks for O'Neal.

D12Howard · Post #10 » by **D12Howard** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:12 am

First of all, if the Pacers want to fix themselves, they need to start Diener and give him the motha f'n rock every time...

Now that I got that out of the way, I would do that trade minus 1 of the 1st rounders. I don't think Jermaine is physically done, I think its more mental and he needs a change of Scenery. Him and Dwight could be nasty and Shard back at the 3 would help him a lot. Plus getting rid of Arroyo would rule.

Arroyo is a douche

Bucky O'Hare · Post #11 » by **Bucky O'Hare** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:27 am

As a Pacer fan, I don't like it. J.O.'s value is low, but I think we can still get more out of him than a couple of low-20's firsts. I'd rather talk with L.A. about Kwame Brown's expiring contract and maybe Farmar and/or Crittenton.

AdamTheGreek wrote:Christ, people are talking about Shaq being 'finished', where the hell would you put Jermaine? Dead?!

Hardly.

Shaq is finished. He's fat, old, and lazy.

J.O. isn't even 30 yet. He's had a knee injury that's lingered because he's never given it adequate time to heal. He's a warrior with a ton of heart, and in some cases that can be a bad thing. If he does in fact sit out the rest of the season, then I expect that will likely end much of the lingeringness of the injury. J.O. at even 75% takes your team from the 2nd round fodder it's currently at into a team that could win the East. With really no other ways of improving the team (due to the atrocious Lewis signing) I can't see how you could possibly pass this deal up.

JO's numbers in December.....

33.3 mpg
19.1 ppg
7.9 rpg
2.7 apg
2.6 bpg
48.5 fg%
86.2 ft%

And even his overall season numbers aren't that bad, despite the fact that he's played at 60% all year long.

MagicFan3 wrote:2 first rounders for JO? I just threw up a little.

Yeah, with the way the making draft no way can you give up two 1st rounders for J.O. I mean, if you guys can get Vasquez and Redick in the lottery, imagine the awesome talent you'll get with two early 20's 1st rounders?

paperboymafia wrote:nah...two firsts is too much and as was said above... injury prone.

I didn't think that mattered to Magic management. After all, they just signed a 3rd tier player coming off a 60-game season to a $126M contract.

laVal03 wrote:Hell to the No

A couple of years ago..YES but IMO he doesn't have that much left in the tank and is injured way too often so when we are talking two firsts, NO way

The Magic can't draft so it's really a no-risk proposition. If your team had a history of making good draft selections, selections that end up being contributors, I could understand where you're coming from. But chances are your GM will draft a couple of scrubs with the 1sts. J.O., at 25%, is better than what your GM will get with those 1sts.

lovehoops01 · Post #12 » by **lovehoops01** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:55 am

Personally, I'd consider the deal, but doesn't J.O. have an opt-out coming in his contract very soon?

The only other problem would be that the Magic would have so many players making top dollar that there would be little room left to fill out the roster. You can't have Dwight, J.O., Sweet Lew, Hedo (at least for one more year), Jameer and 10 minimum-wage players, especially if you're giving up draft picks in two of the next four seasons. And if you add a couple years worth of MLE's, you're starting to look at a payroll similar to the Knicks'. (I'm with those who consider our draft picks virtually worthless, though, since they never seem to use them on guys who they will play, but they do help fill out the roster with relatively inexpensive players....well, except for Fran. However, I'm willing to give them one more shot at drafts with a little help from SVG this year. If that doesn't fix it, I give up.)

And Bucky....no need to get so nasty. We weren't the ones who proposed the trade after all.

drsd · Post #13 » by **drsd** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:01 am

Bucky O'Hare wrote:As a Pacer fan, I don't like it. J.O.'s value is low, but I think we can still get more out of him than a couple of low-20's firsts. I'd rather talk with L.A. about Kwame Brown's expiring contract and maybe Farmar and/or Crittenton.

Wow, an Indy fan thinks Brown is a good pick up for O'neal. Wow.

MagicStarwipe · Post #14 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:02 am

I think I'd do it.

NEM · Post #15 » by **NEM** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:21 pm

2 years ago then yes...now hell no

The Letter J · Post #16 » by **The Letter J** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:50 pm

No. I'd like to keep Battie. If Jermaine's numbers are bad in Indy, where he is the primary big, they'd be worse here sharing time with Dwight. Jermaine's still a decent player, but you want all of those expirings AND 1st rounders AND a decent veteran big. I'd like to see what else we could get with that package instead of J.O..

tranjSAIC · Post #17 » by **tranjSAIC** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:36 pm

I think his numbers in Indy are due to 1. He is still hurt and 2. He has giving up, he wants to go to a contender. I think this deal is ok, I would consider it. Another plus is there is what 2 years left on his deal? Isn't that the time Lebron and Wades contract come up =)

MJallday59 · Post #18 » by **MJallday59** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:32 pm

Actually...that's a really good deal. If we could somehow convince Indy to include diener in the trade then it's totally done! Only thing is....I'd rather have Lewis off the bench... Sorry that's just how I feel.

MJallday59 · Post #19 » by **MJallday59** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:33 pm

tranjSAIC wrote:I think his numbers in Indy are due to 1. He is still hurt and 2. He has giving up, he wants to go to a contender. I think this deal is ok, I would consider it. Another plus is there is what 2 years left on his deal? Isn't that the time Lebron and Wades contract come up =)

Unfortunately...the same time turks contract ends as well