OT: Supersonics mess

[flyingvee]

Whats the general consensus here on this whole mess with the new owners wanting to move the Sonics to OKlahoma. Does anyone feel David Stern is once again being a weasel in this saying that there was nothing wrong done? I'm talking about the news this week that e-mails were uncovered from the owner pretty much showing they never intended on keeping the team in Seattle. It's pretty much an NBA standard having the Sonics in Seattle, but watching Stern once again sit there and play stupid should be alarming to the rest of the league. For example what if the same unethical scam happened here in Orlando?

Sterns always been on many peoples radar about the officials and the 'star treatment' (breathing on the Jordans and LeBrons = foul) Like is this a result of the refs taking it upon themselves to GIVE start calls or more a mandate from Stern himself?

Anyway, this got more winded that I wanted to. Does anyone else think that Stern should have stepped in a negated this proposed move well knowing that the owner acted in bad faith and lied?

[macdalejax]

We really don't know all the facts. If what they are saying is the case then it should be up to a judge, not Stern imo.

[BassMaster]

Whats the general consensus here on this whole mess with the new owners wanting to move the Sonics to OKlahoma. Does anyone feel David Stern is once again being a weasel in this saying that there was nothing wrong done? I'm talking about the news this week that e-mails were uncovered from the owner pretty much showing they never intended on keeping the team in Seattle. It's pretty much an NBA standard having the Sonics in Seattle, but watching Stern once again sit there and play stupid should be alarming to the rest of the league. For example what if the same unethical scam happened here in Orlando?

Sterns always been on many peoples radar about the officials and the 'star treatment' (breathing on the Jordans and LeBrons = foul) Like is this a result of the refs taking it upon themselves to GIVE start calls or more a mandate from Stern himself?

Anyway, this got more winded that I wanted to. Does anyone else think that Stern should have stepped in a negated this proposed move well knowing that the owner acted in bad faith and lied?

I for one standby Stern and his actions, but when it comes all down to it, it will be the courts deciding whether there was any deceit. You can take those e-mails anyway you want to push them. To me Seattle and the State of Washington have been the ones acting in bad faith by not allowing Key Arena to be torn down and starting over. Plus the Sonics have the worst deal of any NBA team in their own arena there is no way that they can get ahead or even break even with the kind of terms forced on them by the city and state.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone that the new owners have had enough. Seattle and Washington State believe that their own sh...t is holy and they are owned a team in Seattle no matter how badly they treat the NBA.
Well I think Stern just informed them that their sh....t really stinks and the NBA won't take it anymore. I haven't heard any players or former players supporting Seattle or the state in the way they treated the team.
One last thing Key Arena is one of the worst arena's in the country and has been ignored by it's owners since it was built that being the city and state.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone that this team is set to move to another state that really wants an NBA team.

[mhectorgato]

I think the general consensus is that the MAGIC are NOT a lottery team.

I think the general consensus is that the MAGIC have won more than this prediction:

I call it 37-45 Give me a +/- 3

[Max Power]

The situation in Seattle is unfortunate, I was hoping they'd stay there. But this hick from Oklahoma had no intention of keeping the team there from the start, he is a liar and I hope he loses rights to the team. There is no excuse for a team to move after what 40 years in Seattle? The city, team owners and everyone who's ready to move that team should be ashamed. The fans there deserve better. Hopefully Stern will be a man and not the grey haired spineless 8 year old nerd he usually is and gives Seattle an expansion version of the Sonics. Clay Aiken or whatever his name is can rott in his own bulls**t as far as I am concerned.

[BassMaster]

The situation in Seattle is unfortunate, I was hoping they'd stay there. But this hick from Oklahoma had no intention of keeping the team there from the start, he is a liar and I hope he loses rights to the team. There is no excuse for a team to move after what 40 years in Seattle? The city, team owners and everyone who's ready to move that team should be ashamed. The fans there deserve better. Hopefully Stern will be a man and not the grey haired spineless 8 year old nerd he usually is and gives Seattle an expansion version of the Sonics. Clay Aiken or whatever his name is can rott in his own bulls**t as far as I am concerned.

If the NBA had gone by your thinking then there would not be any L.A. Lakers nor Clippers. Both of these teams were in their first city for a long time and moved by new owners. And there are other NBA teams that also need the grand move after being in one city for a long time, but the best example are the Lakers and the Clippers.
And I agree the fans there deserve better, but so do the people who owned the team before it was sold. Why do you think that a local owner sold in the first place, because he was getting the shaft from the city and state. So using that as an excuse doesn't wash.
The previous owner tried to get changes done and neither the city of state would budge. So now they are paying for their arrogance.

[darthcheech2000]

I for one would like the Sonics to stay in Seattle, but the NBA is a business in the end. Seattle needs to understand their responsibilities as an NBA city. Remember, Orlando was a single city commissioner away from not getting the votes necessary to build a new arena. City commissioners are voted in by the people.

If the people of Seattle want a team, it should be up to them. NOT DAVID STERN!

[flyingvee]

I gotta go with the Sonics having been in Seattle all these years, and as a major city to lose a team. Arena troubles? Didn't we almost have a similar situation here? Hopefully it will wind up in court. Would hate to see any city lose it's team. Why not give Oklahoma an expansion team? I mean if they give one to Seattle later, whats the use? Liek moving the Hornets from Charlotte and then giving them another expansion team later?

As for the Magic record, I've got the balls to say yea, I predicted 37 wins. Who would have thought the eastern conference would be even weaker and worse than last year? A Nets team with Carter/Kidd/Jefferson and more talent than ours not evening making the playoffs? Toronto and Washington and their injuries? Miami's collapse. Cleveland and Chicago dropping off. And our lack of a power forward. So don't toto your horn too loud Hector, we still have to see if the Magic can stop Toronto in the first round.

[Potterman]

I gotta go with the Sonics having been in Seattle all these years, and as a major city to lose a team. Arena troubles? Didn't we almost have a similar situation here? Hopefully it will wind up in court. Would hate to see any city lose it's team. Why not give Oklahoma an expansion team? I mean if they give one to Seattle later, whats the use? Liek moving the Hornets from Charlotte and then giving them another expansion team later?

As for the Magic record, I've got the balls to say yea, I predicted 37 wins. Who would have thought the eastern conference would be even weaker and worse than last year? A Nets team with Carter/Kidd/Jefferson and more talent than ours not evening making the playoffs? Toronto and Washington and their injuries? Miami's collapse. Cleveland and Chicago dropping off. And our lack of a power forward. So don't toto your horn too loud Hector, we still have to see if the Magic can stop Toronto in the first round.

So you are a Magic fan right? Maybe? I can understand being a realist but your tone inclines that we still are a 37 win team that got lucky.

Ive discussed several times with realist's about our situation and you sir are worthy of an IP check.

[BassMaster]

I for one would like the Sonics to stay in Seattle, but the NBA is a business in the end. Seattle needs to understand their responsibilities as an NBA city. Remember, Orlando was a single city commissioner away from not getting the votes necessary to build a new arena. City commissioners are voted in by the people.

If the people of Seattle want a team, it should be up to them. NOT DAVID STERN!

The problem with that thinking is that there has been no groundswelling from the people of Seattle to keep the Sonics from moving in fact it has been more the other way. I have been reading the forums out in Seattle and a lot of fans say that they would be better off with an expansion team then the one they have now. And unlike the Hornets the Sonics name and color scheme would not leave Seattle it would stay in Seattle for the next team.
Right now the former owner has been convinced to sue the new owners, but it's sounds like it's more about greed then really supporting the Sonics.
He wants them back, but keep the money he got for them. And he is doing this at the last moment after how many newspaper articles and civic leaders kept on him to get the team back. It only took about a year of this kind of pressure. The previous owner also is the Chairman of Starbucks, by the way that company is hurting right now.
So after all the statements from him that the new owners did nothing wrong even after the release of e-mails, what changed his mind??
Well the govenment in OK is willing to go the extra mile for an NBA team and their arena is a heck of a lot nicer and bigger then the one in Seattle, and it wouldn't drain the owners of every last cent to play there as well.
Key Arena is terrible and no NBA team even a winning one can make a profit with the way the city has the contract setup to use the place. Greed is going to cost the people of Seattle an NBA team and until they face up and change what they have there I don't see the NBA putting a new expansion team there.
Stern said that Seattle is not going to that great of a loss leaving there, I think that says a lot about the situation there.

[FFBlitzace]

I think it's an outrage. We were close to possibly talking relocation, and just the thought of it made me depressed. I'm sad for the Seattle fans.

[The Favero]

The only one to truly blame here is the people of Seattle. They are the ones who voted to make it illegal to use public money to built a professional sports stadium/arena. If they didn't know what that entailed then they shouldn't have voted. Or maybe the majority of people in the Seattle area aren't Sonics fans and could care less. Or maybe they were just stupid and didn't have any idea what that would entail. Just look at us in Florida. Everyone voted for amendment 1 and now people in my family who work in law enforcement and education are already feeling the cuts. Our saftey and protections and schools are going into even further disrepair so each the average person could save about $17 a month.

[huge4]

-= original quote snipped =-



I for one standby Stern and his actions, but when it comes all down to it, it will be the courts deciding whether there was any deceit. You can take those e-mails anyway you want to push them. To me Seattle and the State of Washington have been the ones acting in bad faith by not allowing Key Arena to be torn down and starting over. Plus the Sonics have the worst deal of any NBA team in their own arena there is no way that they can get ahead or even break even with the kind of terms forced on them by the city and state.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone that the new owners have had enough. Seattle and Washington State believe that their own sh...t is holy and they are owned a team in Seattle no matter how badly they treat the NBA.
Well I think Stern just informed them that their sh....t really stinks and the NBA won't take it anymore. I haven't heard any players or former players supporting Seattle or the state in the way they treated the team.
One last thing Key Arena is one of the worst arena's in the country and has been ignored by it's owners since it was built that being the city and state.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone that this team is set to move to another state that really wants an NBA team.

That's all pretty straight up BS. The Sonics owners signed a lease with the city, they were not forced to do so and believe it or not they did have something to say over the terms and length. For them to turn around and start crying that it's unfair and they can't make money and that it's somehow the city's fault for making them sign the lease is crazy. They wanted the city to simply tear up the lease and waive goodbye to the expected revenue. In what universe that makes sense I don't know.

It's simplistic and ignorant to say the city is wrong for not just tearing down the Key and building them a new one. The taxpayers have contributed to build TWO brand new stadiums in the last ten years (the Mariners and Seahawks), both of which were hotly debated (plus both teams were doing extremely well at the time). The Key arena needs updating but it is in the heart of the Seattle Center in the middle of Seattle. It's not as simple as knocking and down and popping up a new one.

To be fair, there were some chowder-headed politicians that came out and said that Seattle didn't need the Sonics. Well, I know there were some Morans in Orlando that said some pretty stupid things while we were trying to get a new arena. Should we assume those morans spoke for the whole city and reflect on the fans?

Clay Bennit signed an agreement when he bought the team to make a good faith effort to keep the team in Seattle. He has made no such effort and these emails prove he never intended to keep the team where it was.

[huge4]

-= original quote snipped =-



The problem with that thinking is that there has been no groundswelling from the people of Seattle to keep the Sonics from moving in fact it has been more the other way. I have been reading the forums out in Seattle and a lot of fans say that they would be better off with an expansion team then the one they have now. And unlike the Hornets the Sonics name and color scheme would not leave Seattle it would stay in Seattle for the next team.
Right now the former owner has been convinced to sue the new owners, but it's sounds like it's more about greed then really supporting the Sonics.
He wants them back, but keep the money he got for them. And he is doing this at the last moment after how many newspaper articles and civic leaders kept on him to get the team back. It only took about a year of this kind of pressure. The previous owner also is the Chairman of Starbucks, by the way that company is hurting right now.
So after all the statements from him that the new owners did nothing wrong even after the release of e-mails, what changed his mind??
Well the govenment in OK is willing to go the extra mile for an NBA team and their arena is a heck of a lot nicer and bigger then the one in Seattle, and it wouldn't drain the owners of every last cent to play there as well.
Key Arena is terrible and no NBA team even a winning one can make a profit with the way the city has the contract setup to use the place. Greed is going to cost the people of Seattle an NBA team and until they face up and change what they have there I don't see the NBA putting a new expansion team there.
Stern said that Seattle is not going to that great of a loss leaving there, I think that says a lot about the situation there.

This pretty much proves you don't know what you're talking about. I live in Seattle and there has been an enormous groundswell from Sonics fans. We have bombarded the capital in Olympia and put enormous pressure on the politicians, which is the sole reason why you have all of a sudden seen so much action from the Governor's office and other state representatives to get a more palatable agreement in place to placate Mr. Bennit.

The problem is that he's not interested. He was never going to accept any deal or agreement that would keep the Sonics in Seattle. He is a rich hick who doesn't want to have to catch a flight to sit courtside at an NBA game.

Howard Schultz (former owner of the Sonics and CEO of Starbucks) isn't trying to get the team back AND keep the money. The reason he is only now pursuing this course of action is that these e-mails just now surfaced as proof that this team was bought to move.

And your point about the Lakers is irrelevant. Yes teams move, but not from the 16th largest sports market in the U.S. to like the 60th. Not a team that's been in Seattle as long as the Sonics, has won a championship and has an excellent fan base.

[Max Power]

[ Just look at us in Florida. Everyone voted for amendment 1 and now people in my family who work in law enforcement and education are already feeling the cuts. Our saftey and protections and schools are going into even further disrepair so each the average person could save about $17 a month.[/quote]

FAVERO!!!! You are sooo right about Amendment 1, people are going to save 250 bucks a year on property taxes. Big freaking deal, I'd assume have a police department when someone breaks into my house. My whole family is losing money since they are all LEO's. My brother has already been told he won't receive a raise for at least 3 years. I voted no for amendment 1, but it just goes to show that people see more $$$ but now our precious houses will burn down because all the fire depts will not have enough funding. I know for damn sure I won't vote for Charlie Crist for governor ever again. Worst law...EVER.

[MagicMadness]

So you are a Magic fan right? Maybe? I can understand being a realist but your tone inclines that we still are a 37 win team that got lucky.

Ive discussed several times with realist's about our situation and you sir are worthy of an IP check.

He's a Magic fan. He just made a prediction about the team that went horribly wrong (thankfully).

I can understand his reasoning, considering many of us expected the Magic to be competing for a 6-8 seed, but I guess what made it worse is that he still predicted that record even after the Magic were well over .500 and it was apparent that a lot of those supposed better teams were struggling mightily (if I remember correctly).

[mhectorgato]

He's a Magic fan. He just made a prediction about the team that went horribly wrong (thankfully).

I can understand his reasoning, considering many of us expected the Magic to be competing for a 6-8 seed, but I guess what made it worse is that he still predicted that record even after the Magic were well over .500 and it was apparent that a lot of those supposed better teams were struggling mightily (if I remember correctly).

I think the vast, if not overwhelming, majority of the predictions on this board were that we'd be winning 45+ games.

Only very few predicted us actually to do worse this year.

[MagicMadness]

Wasn't the board average (in the official prediction thread) 44-46 wins (which would be about what you were saying...)?

I predicted a 44-38 record, personally. Of course, I upped my prediction and expectations once the Magic came roaring out the gate and kept up a steady momentum. If I'm not mistaken, that's what was so strange about vee's prediction...he still believed the Magic would be 37-45 or so even after the Magic were proving to be a damn good team...in a damn mediocre conference.

[mhectorgato]

Wasn't the board average (in the official prediction thread) 44-46 wins (which would be about what you were saying...)?

I predicted a 44-38 record, personally. Of course, I upped my prediction and expectations once the Magic came roaring out the gate and kept up a steady momentum. If I'm not mistaken, that's what was so strange about vee's prediction...he still believed the Magic would be 37-45 or so even after the Magic were proving to be a damn good team...in a damn mediocre conference.

iirc, you're right - which even further (had Dwight in a Laker uni and said that he'd pull a Shaq) showed his "the glass doesn't contain any water at all" side.

[ORL]

Thing about Sonics I don't get is that they are already talking expansion and a new team out there. This would naturally require a brand new arena... I'm just curious why wasn't that deal available to these guys or Schultz?