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OT: Why oil prices are so high?

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Post#41 » by BassMaster » Wed May 21, 2008 3:44 pm

yoyo65 wrote:you think gas is high here go to canada its over $5.00 a gal go to briton or france its over $8.00 and $9.00 a gal as for bush member the year we had 3 canes the signs on i4 poped up saying he was to blame peoplem love to blame him for everything hell in a book i read of al gore he wanted gas to rise over $5.00 a gal back than read his book oh ya he wanted that to be in a higher tax on gas ohhhhh my read it


The reason for the higher prices in Canada and Europe is because of the gas tax's that have been added to pay for socialized medicine.
Do any of you ever see that happening in the US. NO I didn't think so.
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Post#42 » by Shishnizzle » Wed May 21, 2008 4:22 pm

Ok the fact that you refuse to back up your statements forced me to look into it myself.

Bush threatened a veto in order to force congress to pull some tax increases on the oil company's out of the bill. Just so you know when you increase taxes on oil company's they offset those taxes by increasing your prices. You essentially pay the tax increase. I'm not defending Bush but you need to get some facts so I don't have to check out everything you say. Congress compromised and Bush ultimately signed the energy bill. His veto threat had nothing to do with an amendment with regards to energy trading, from what I can tell. If you can prove it did, then I am fine with that, but I looked on the net and I can't find anything about your stance.

The good news is, while looking to see if your claims are true. I found this article from a couple day's ago and it looks like they are trying to do something about it as we speak. If things go well you could see oil prices drop shortly, or at least not get to much higher.

http://www.motorcitymoms.com/apps/pbcs. ... 4/BUSINESS
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Post#43 » by Jigish » Wed May 21, 2008 4:24 pm

I have so much to say about this and I honestly don't know where to begin. But here is my first attempt.

#1 IF WE INVEST IN ALTERNATIVES, OIL WILL BE FORCED TO LOWER PRICES TO COMPETE!!!!....
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Post#44 » by Shishnizzle » Wed May 21, 2008 4:28 pm

This is very good news guys

It looks like gas prices are going to drop, or at least not go up anymore.

http://www.closetheenronloophole.com/
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Post#45 » by mhectorgato » Wed May 21, 2008 4:28 pm

Jigish wrote:I have so much to say about this and I honestly don't know where to begin. But here is my first attempt.

#1 IF WE INVEST IN ALTERNATIVES, OIL WILL BE FORCED TO LOWER PRICES TO COMPETE!!!!....


How long will it take until they become commercially viable?

How long will it take for the automotive community to embrace them?

How will the consumers react to lower performing autos at higher prices?

How long will it take for the fueling infrastructure to be put into place that starts to come close to current ones?

Not to say that alternatives are a bad thing. But it's hard to imagine that they will be a quick fix.
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Post#46 » by drsd » Wed May 21, 2008 4:33 pm

When I was about ten (a time before many of you were born), I recall being told that cheap oil would end around 2005. Well, here we are and oil is on longer cheap.

The current market was predicted decades ago.
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Post#47 » by Jigish » Wed May 21, 2008 4:58 pm

[quote="mhectorgato"][/quote]

Nothing is a quick fix, but if we invest in them, they can become commercially viable QUICKER as in within the next ten years.
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Post#48 » by Shishnizzle » Wed May 21, 2008 5:03 pm

It seems some people think investors will move the business to markets outside the U.S leading to no change in oil prices.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1 ... index.html

http://www.carllevin.com/news/2006/05/0 ... y-trading/
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Post#49 » by macdalejax » Wed May 21, 2008 5:23 pm

spinedoc wrote:The onus on fuel efficient automobiles should be put on the auto makers, not the citizens. I own an SUV as a second vehicle. Its not much different than a truck, but I use it to cart my dogs around or make a Lowe's trip now and then. I also live four houses down from my practice, so I walk a lot to make up for it though.

I read somewhere that the big three buy the patents of fuel efficient parts and bury them. This story was related to a carburator that nearly quadrupled the mpg of vehicles and they quashed it. They have done it throughout history and have been in bed with the oil industry for far too long. Just look at the hybrids, and their cost. Why so much money for them, and so little amount of pumps? Does the government give you a rebate if you buy one, why not? Instead you have the government giving massive tax rebates to the oil and gas industry and not requiring them to invest into alternative fuels. The priorities are skewed the wrong way imo. Honestly, the whole thing is a scam.


I believe this is true as well. But you have to realize that the Pres isn't really in charge of these decisions unilaterally. He is mearly a mouthpiece or a spokesperson with a small amount of actual power unless Martial Law is declared. His main power is influence. I think we all know he is NOT smart enough to put this all together. He is clearly a "special" individual. However, corruption and manipulation aka lobbyists have been in the government since its inception. How do you think slavery or the Indians to be practically exterminated by the Army were all allowed? It was all about making money and pushed by lobbyists. Congress has the power to make these decisions, policies and bills. The problem is that there aren't enough of them that agree on anything but how to keep themselves elected and making money. IMO there are only a handful in the government who are truly servants of the people. This corruption spreads across party lines and political divides. The goal of the average politician is to stay in office. Well, in order to do that you have to appease the people who put you there. Those are the people who donated the most money to your campaign so you can afford to run for office or reelection. The money for staff members, private buses and jets, campaign trips and special events, and most of all television advertisements. Without financing you can't get elected. Have you ever wondered why the media keeps ranking political candidates by how much money they have raised? According the mainstream media, the candidate with the most money obviously has the most voter support. As George Carlin says, "It's all bull***t and it's bad for you." My point is simple. Be careful about buying into all that misinformation thrown at you from all sides. Be careful of what people tell you. Find the information yourself from multiple sources and make your own decision. If you are wrong, who cares. If you are right, who cares. Either way you(the collective you) might want to think twice about propagating and regurgitating all the spin and misinformation floating around out there.

I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating my opinion here. Just another libretarian here who can't understand why most people seem to pick sides to argue rather than see that the whole thing is clearly corrupt and screwed up.
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Post#50 » by Neon1 » Wed May 21, 2008 5:24 pm

We have been paying $7 a gallon in Bermuda for at least 5-6 years already...So i dont complain.
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Post#51 » by macdalejax » Wed May 21, 2008 5:41 pm

Jigish wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Nothing is a quick fix, but if we invest in them, they can become commercially viable QUICKER as in within the next ten years.


Which ones do we invest in? How much do we invest? If "we" means the U.S. Government then were does this extra money come from? They can't seem to wisely spend all the money we give them now. Always remember, this money our government spends isn't THEIR money. It is OUR money. How they get it from us is another argument i won't get into here. Just remember that every time you hear someone talk about how we can't get enough money for education yet the president is asking for 60 or 70 billion dollars every couple of months for Iraq and congress is tacking on pork belly spending in the trillions for special interests.

Sorry I got off on a tangent there. :oops:
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Post#52 » by spinedoc » Wed May 21, 2008 5:45 pm

cougar13 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Actually congress passed an energy bill that included an amendment that would have curbed the speculators in the energy market. Bush vetoed the bill.
Right now it is estimated that from 30% to 60% of all oil prices are because of speculators. I was watching CNN and their expert said it's right around 50% of the market meaning that a barrel of oil should really cost about 65 dollars a barrel instead of the 120 plus dollars.


The month that we invaded Iraq, the price per barrel was at 25 dollars. Now its five times the amount in only six years time. We just went above $125 per barrel. There are a lot of reasons for this of course, and not one thing is the sole cause. But, I do agree about fear in the market place raising the price significantly however. They are actually selling contracts on oil futures into the year 2016! How can that even be possible? Eight years in advance is absolutely ridiculous. I don't know about the veto you are referring to, but I know for a fact that it has been the policies of this administration that has brought us to this point, so I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

One other thing to note about our European and Canadian friends about their price of oil. Its already been said that its due to taxes to pay for other social services. We have a 5% tax is all to mainly pay for infrastructure, road repairs and such. You guys are actually getting something on the back end of those high prices. Plus you have the mass transit in place and rail system to move your people and goods. We are dependent on trucking to move ours, so therefore the prices go higher on everything else that we buy. Trust me, we are paying that amount and more, but in other ways. Also, how big are some of your countries compared to ours?, Canada excluded. Some of you aren't even as big as one of our moderate sized states. I had to laugh when I saw Neon talk about the price in Bermuda. I'm thinking you can cross that country and back on one tank of gas. Its not even close to being comparable. Our economies are as different as apples and aardvarks, not even as close as the difference in fruit.
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Post#53 » by macdalejax » Wed May 21, 2008 5:47 pm

Neon1 wrote:We have been paying $7 a gallon in Bermuda for at least 5-6 years already...So i dont complain.


We, in the US, shouldn't be either but unfortunately we have been sheltered from these kinds of prices for many years. If we hadn't then we would have developed a much better public transportation system by now. The way it is now we are so dependent on our personal vehicles it would be very difficult to convince most people to adapt to public transportation. It's unfortunate but we did this to ourselves as a society IMO.
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Post#54 » by macdalejax » Wed May 21, 2008 5:54 pm

LOL...gotta love these offseason OT threads.
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Post#55 » by spinedoc » Wed May 21, 2008 6:06 pm

macdalejax wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I believe this is true as well. But you have to realize that the Pres isn't really in charge of these decisions unilaterally. He is mearly a mouthpiece or a spokesperson with a small amount of actual power unless Martial Law is declared. His main power is influence. I think we all know he is NOT smart enough to put this all together. He is clearly a "special" individual. However, corruption and manipulation aka lobbyists have been in the government since its inception. How do you think slavery or the Indians to be practically exterminated by the Army were all allowed? It was all about making money and pushed by lobbyists. Congress has the power to make these decisions, policies and bills. The problem is that there aren't enough of them that agree on anything but how to keep themselves elected and making money. IMO there are only a handful in the government who are truly servants of the people. This corruption spreads across party lines and political divides. The goal of the average politician is to stay in office. Well, in order to do that you have to appease the people who put you there. Those are the people who donated the most money to your campaign so you can afford to run for office or reelection. The money for staff members, private buses and jets, campaign trips and special events, and most of all television advertisements. Without financing you can't get elected. Have you ever wondered why the media keeps ranking political candidates by how much money they have raised? According the mainstream media, the candidate with the most money obviously has the most voter support. As George Carlin says, "It's all bull***t and it's bad for you." My point is simple. Be careful about buying into all that misinformation thrown at you from all sides. Be careful of what people tell you. Find the information yourself from multiple sources and make your own decision. If you are wrong, who cares. If you are right, who cares. Either way you(the collective you) might want to think twice about propagating and regurgitating all the spin and misinformation floating around out there.

I am not trying to offend anyone, just stating my opinion here. Just another libretarian here who can't understand why most people seem to pick sides to argue rather than see that the whole thing is clearly corrupt and screwed up.


I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I'm an independent, not a democrat, and definitely not a republican. I have voted republican in the past, and I believe in some of their ideals, but they often end up catering to the rich elite of this country. Just as you pointed out about the money in politics, its bad on both sides no doubt, but its the President that sets the agenda. He is the one who makes the priorities and points the direction of the country. Yes, its very much complicated to implicate one man alone, but you have to look at the base which got them elected as to what policies they will follow. Policy is set by lobbyists right now, not we the people, and very rarely does a candidate come along that you know can make a difference.

I sent money to two people in this election, Ron Paul, and Obama. The rest are the best politicians that money can buy imo. I believe our system is heavily corrupt and it was never designed to have people stay that long in Washington. It was meant to be for your local community leaders to go and serve, and then come home after their terms. It has become about staying as long as you can now, and that takes money. They rely on a dumbed down electorate in order to do this. Thats why, usually, the one with the most money and the most advertising dollar usually gets elected. But every once in a while, we have a movement in this country because of the thirst for change. I believe that we are in one of those right now. Its sad that only 50% of our country pays attention to the issues and votes. We get too distracted on such things as Paris Hilton, or Brittany Spears, etc. Then out of nowhere the people remember who really runs this country and we have a C-change. That time is now, its a very important time in history.
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Post#56 » by spinedoc » Wed May 21, 2008 6:14 pm

macdalejax wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Which ones do we invest in? How much do we invest? If "we" means the U.S. Government then were does this extra money come from? They can't seem to wisely spend all the money we give them now. Always remember, this money our government spends isn't THEIR money. It is OUR money. How they get it from us is another argument i won't get into here. Just remember that every time you hear someone talk about how we can't get enough money for education yet the president is asking for 60 or 70 billion dollars every couple of months for Iraq and congress is tacking on pork belly spending in the trillions for special interests.

Sorry I got off on a tangent there. :oops:


Very good question. Ethanol is not the panacea at all. If we solely convert to that, we will see food prices rise around the world. We already are seeing that actually. If we grow corn for energy, then no one will grow wheat or other food sources. Its got to be a combination of things depending on the resource that is abundant in your area. The southwest should be invested in solar, wind in the plains, nuclear power, and other renewable sources like geothermic or saw grass and so on. Its a complicated problem and thus it should be a complicated solution. There isn't one right answer, but rather a plan. And if we invest in the future in green technology, it has its benefits within the economy as well such as jobs. I can go on, but I won't. Its time for us to start paying attention and educating ourselves and voting based on our own priorities. If that is gay marriage, abortion, and other wedge issues, so be it, but there are far more bigger issues of our day.
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Post#57 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed May 21, 2008 6:16 pm

spinedoc wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



The month that we invaded Iraq, the price per barrel was at 25 dollars. Now its five times the amount in only six years time. We just went above $125 per barrel. There are a lot of reasons for this of course, and not one thing is the sole cause. But, I do agree about fear in the market place raising the price significantly however. They are actually selling contracts on oil futures into the year 2016! How can that even be possible? Eight years in advance is absolutely ridiculous. I don't know about the veto you are referring to, but I know for a fact that it has been the policies of this administration that has brought us to this point, so I wouldn't doubt it one bit.


Thats a good point about the futures. When it comes to securities/currency, futures contracts are days, weeks, months, maybe one year. But when you get to 8-10 years, it seems really ridiculous that the futures are that far in time. Soooo many things will and are gonna happen thru that time, feels irrelevant to have futures contracts for such long periods of time since circumstances change soo much. I think that futures/options were intended for short term situations, not long term situations.
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Post#58 » by flyingvee » Wed May 21, 2008 6:27 pm

aleZ wrote:Stop whining!
You guys don't know what "high" is, a week in Europe would bring this entire board to their knees, you'd be broke in a couple days.

The US is so dirt cheap...


Yes but one very major difference. In Europe it has always been very high and they also always had both very fuel efficent small cars, plus most countries have great mass transit systems. The way the US infrastructure was built with things miles apart was dependent on driving. Orlando is a perfect example. It takes me 40 miles to get to work. We has a non-existant transit system, Lynx is a joke. The propsed rail system is a joke with just thta one leg. For example, you drive to the station and take the train and you get off at Winter Park for example. How do you get from the station to work if its miles away?

So in essence this city as many cities were built on the basis that you would dribve to work and gas was cheap. Now they slam us with these sudden hikes and could very well be th edownfall of the country? What do you think will happen if gas is $7-8 a gallon and most peopel drive far to work for minimum wage?

Just remember, with Clinton $0.99 gas for premium as I put into my SS. With GW, $3.75 today and rising. Good work a-hole.
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Post#59 » by Shishnizzle » Wed May 21, 2008 6:54 pm

I'm not sure if you guy's are paying attention to these articles I'm giving you but they are very interesting. It looks like they just passed a bill to regulate the trading of oil and gas commodities. You could see a drop in oil prices in the future if these people are forced to sell some of their interests because of violations. I can't believe I am saying this, but as someone who is a libertarian and who has voted exclusively against democrats. I'm very pleased with Dian Feinstein and the Democrats on this one. This is making me question a lot of my feelings towards democrats.

http://jimhamiltonblog.blogspot.com/200 ... would.html
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Post#60 » by mhectorgato » Wed May 21, 2008 7:17 pm

BigCityCat wrote:I'm not sure if you guy's are paying attention to these articles I'm giving you but they are very interesting. It looks like they just passed a bill to regulate the trading of oil and gas commodities. You could see a drop in oil prices in the future if these people are forced to sell some of their interests because of violations. I can't believe I am saying this, but as someone who is a libertarian and who has voted exclusively against democrats. I'm very pleased with Dian Feinstein and the Democrats on this one. This is making me question a lot of my feelings towards democrats.

http://jimhamiltonblog.blogspot.com/200 ... would.html


Maybe this is a question for surf:

But would this be considered ex post facto (going back in time to my school years here)?
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