I hope Otis was taking notes watching the Lakers.

[richboy]

This board has been pretty boring lately so I guess its time for me to start a topic.

Okay Otis. I hope you was taking notes. Mitch "freakin" Kupcheck just showed you how to build a champion overnight in todays NBA. While some people are talking about baby steps others are making actual strides.

Watching the Lakers celebrate there WCC yesterday had me thinking. It was just 1 year ago that the Lakers were a 7 seed getting bounced out of the playoffs. At that time it looked like the Magic and Lakers had around the same time table in there hopes to get a championship.

A few months later I watched the Magic and Lakers play in the staples center. At the time the Magic look like the definite better team. Playing in a weaker conference they were ahead in there hopes to win a championship. No way would you think a few months later the Lakers would lap the Magic and on the verge of starting a dynasty.

What happen in a short period of time that two comparable teams became so incomparable in just a few months? Then it hit me what happened? Otis doesn't know what decade it is.

There was a time when baby steps was the way you built a team. Otis is building on the baby step philosophy which was the norm like when he played. We didn't make the playoffs and the goal became making the playoffs. We lost in the first round then the goal became to win in the first round. Now we loose in the second round and the goal will be lets try to win the second round next year. His philosophy is we get a core group of players and let them take baby steps toward a title. Detroit will gets old we will take there place as the next great team in the Eastern Conference as he sees it. Lets just keep banging away with the same group and see what happens.

This philosophy worked well in the 80s and early 90s. The Celtics were great then they aged and the Pistons took over. The Pistons were great and the Bulls couldn't beat them. They kept it up and soon the broke down the wall. The Bulls started a dynasty and expectations were that Penny and Shaq would take over for them one day. Then something happened. Orlando was suppose to be have the next dynasty but a new Collective Bargaining Agreement changed the rules of the game.

First free agency like we had never seen took over allows players of the caliber of Shaq to leave Orlando. Suddenly the next great big man leaves his first team very early in his career. Free agency allowed teams without big payrolls to acquire talent quickly and for free.

Next High School players changed the balance of the draft. In the past college players were getting these huge contracts before they even made an NBA basket. The league with the new CBA put a cap on rookie salaries. Young players wanted to get out of there rookie contracts as soon as possible so the earlier they left the better. Early as in go straight from high school to the pros. Players that if they had decided to go to school would have been one of the top picks in the draft down the line were going much later because of inexperience. In the process teams drafting lower in the draft were getting more talented players than the ones at the top of the draft.

The biggest factor. Especially this year is the value of expiring contracts. With a tough cap and a even tougher luxury tax suddenly players that contracts were ending became more valuable than the actual player. Teams are now sending all-star players with not much coming back in return. Deals that did not happen in the 80s and 90s can happen now. The Celtics got 2 all-star players without giving up there best player in either deal. The Lakers get a still young and talented big man without giving up Bryant, Odom or Bynum. They didn't have to give up any of there 3 best players thats crazy.

This has become the best way to build a great team now. In the past it seem like clearing cap space was the way to go. Yet the Magic have shown that you can clear cap space and all you can come up with in return is Rashard Lewis. Free agency seems like it always was a bad way to build a team. The only way you can clear cap space to sign these top free agents if you gut your team of talented high paid players. Your really just replacing talent with talent.

Now teams are capable of going from the worst team in the league one year to 1 game away from the NBA finals the next year. In a matter of one day teams that thought they were next in line for greatness are being jumped by teams that were in the lottery a year ago.

Think about this. The Suns have spent the last few years trying to knock the Spurs out of the playoffs. They been spanking the Lakers on there way to meeting the Spurs for the past few years. No way they were even thinking about the Lakers going into the year. In one year the Lakers jump the Suns and just crushed the Spurs. What are you thinking if your a Suns fans right now.

The Celtics are a even bigger success story. They had the worse record in the NBA a year ago. They were hoping for Oden or Durant to come save there franchise. They didn't get either but one year later they made a run at a 70 win season. One year ago Chicago thought they were definitely the team of the future in the East. A lot of Bulls fans laughed at the Celtics moves. Now there wondering if they need to make some similar trades before someone else jumps them.

Otis philosophy is dead in the water. Where thinking about the Pistons and suddenly the Celtics are in the mix. One poster said well the Pistons and Celtics will get old then we have our turn. Will we? Why do I have this feeling the Cavs are going to get something ridiculous for all those expiring contracts they have over the next 2 years. The Bulls still have a expiring contract in Gooden and a ton of young talent. This team has the makings of a 60 win team over night.

This organization has blown one of the biggest opportunities they may ever have. Otis had a huge expiring contract last year that he did nothing with. His inactivity forced the organization to put all the eggs in a weak free agent class and let Darko go when those moves could have been avoided.

Think about this. If the Magic loved Rashard so much why not trade for him at the deadline last year. He was pretty much done in Seattle anyway. For a few young players and Grant Hill expiring they would have ran with the deal. They likely would have cut Grant Hill and he could have signed back with the Magic after 30 days. We could have had Rashard for the playoffs a year ago. We could have then used bird rights on Darko.

IMO Otis has not learned how to build a team in this era. Mitch Kupcheck realized that expiring contracts and a few young players would eventually get him something good without giving up much. He realized that taking HS players or Freshman in the draft was the way to go. Danny Ainge realized that if he kept waiting for players he be soon watching those young players as ex-gm of the Celtics.

Otis acts like he has no other teams to worry about but the Pistons. This team needs a impact player to get to the next level and we have almost no way to get him without giving up an impact player. A few months ago we had a ton of expiring contracts to offer. What scary is teams like Chicago, Cleveland, and Miami have assets that could have them jump the Magic with one trade. We need to quit with this baby steps and start thinking about making man size strides. Unfortunately perhaps we should have thought about that when we had a 2 year stretch of around 30 million dollars of expiring contracts and a ton of young players to offer in deals. Now were hoping that the MLE is somehow going to be the difference.

[SS_MagicMark]

Yeah.

[KingRobb02]

The problem is that it's real easy for us as fans to look at a GM and say what he should or shouldn't have done in a given situation, but in reality these guys are just working to keep their jobs. This is the main reason that gutsy moves don't happen across the NBA. Without an owner in your corner giving you the green light to make gutsy moves, you just can't make a deal. Some teams are all about money, some teams are winning, and some teams are about growth.

The Lakers realize that they will always have an affluent fan base, so who cares how much it costs to run the team? If there is a deal to get a good player, Kupchak has every inclination to jump on it. On the other hand, small markets like Memphis, Milwaukee, and Orlando have to worry about saving money. if Scrooge McDuck was signing the paychecks instead, then expiring contracts don't mean as much, and we might trade a few of them.

I look at a team like the Bulls as the major offenders. They picked int he top 7 every year until they had a respectable team, and then refused to trade for KG or Gasol, just so they could have the old "we're still young" excuse when they fell short in the playoffs. What's the reasoning behind this? They are the 3rd largest market in the country, so it isn't money. They had assets like young players, PJ Brown's huge expiring, and the Knicks high draft picks so it wasn't that. I just think that they were genuinely fine with throwing a team with Ben Gordon as their only legit scorer into the fray as long as it kept expectations low. Before this season, many people picked them to win the east before they fell apart. Now they have the top pick. Let's see if they package it with some players to get Elton Brand, or another low post scorer which they need so badly, or if they just use the pick so they can keep saying "What do you expect? Our team is still too young."

[Hotshot Hower]

I agree with everything you said.

That is an ongoing frustration and reality that every Magic fan will hear and think if we can't compete for a championship within the next 2-3 years...

Otis put all his eggs in one basket. (Rashard signing)

He was the laughing stock last off season, but with an improved record and a division crown you have to sit back and see how this thing pans out.

I believe this draft and MLE is pivotal for our development.

(crosses fingers)

[magicman123]

expiring contracts have become huge, i would of liked if otis traded grant hills contract, or the expirings we had this year..it was a great opportunity to receive an all star type of player or some solid pieces....

the draft is another way to build a great team, but otis has shown that he cant do that..and yes, it seems we are putting a lot of hope on the MLE, but you never know with otis, he has made some moves that i didnt like, several to be correct, but i think he will be the gm for the next few years and lets see what he does this offseason..

maybe we can get a poll on who the fans want to draft, and send it to otis for some input jk

[magicfan4life05]

I agree with everything you said.

That is an ongoing frustration and reality that every Magic fan will hear and think if we can't compete for a championship within the next 2-3 years...

Otis put all his eggs in one basket. (Rashard signing)

He was the laughing stock last off season, but with an improved record and a division crown you have to sit back and see how this thing pans out.

I believe this draft and MLE is pivotal for our development.

(crosses fingers)

[richboy]

The problem is that it's real easy for us as fans to look at a GM and say what he should or shouldn't have done in a given situation, but in reality these guys are just working to keep their jobs. This is the main reason that gutsy moves don't happen across the NBA. Without an owner in your corner giving you the green light to make gutsy moves, you just can't make a deal. Some teams are all about money, some teams are winning, and some teams are about growth.

The Lakers realize that they will always have an affluent fan base, so who cares how much it costs to run the team? If there is a deal to get a good player, Kupchak has every inclination to jump on it. On the other hand, small markets like Memphis, Milwaukee, and Orlando have to worry about saving money. if Scrooge McDuck was signing the paychecks instead, then expiring contracts don't mean as much, and we might trade a few of them.

I look at a team like the Bulls as the major offenders. They picked int he top 7 every year until they had a respectable team, and then refused to trade for KG or Gasol, just so they could have the old "we're still young" excuse when they fell short in the playoffs. What's the reasoning behind this? They are the 3rd largest market in the country, so it isn't money. They had assets like young players, PJ Brown's huge expiring, and the Knicks high draft picks so it wasn't that. I just think that they were genuinely fine with throwing a team with Ben Gordon as their only legit scorer into the fray as long as it kept expectations low. Before this season, many people picked them to win the east before they fell apart. Now they have the top pick. Let's see if they package it with some players to get Elton Brand, or another low post scorer which they need so badly, or if they just use the pick so they can keep saying "What do you expect? Our team is still too young."

I agree with you. The Bulls are major offenders. You have to wonder when they decide to take the leap. They have Gooden expiring and young talent to offer. Plus when you have there young talent you should be able to get just about any unhappy all-star in the league. Will they do it we will see. There no reason they can't.

I would agree with you on the Magic but when you launch money around at Rashard, Jameer, and others its tough to suddenly say we can't make a move because we can't afford it.

[Optimus_Steel]

The Magic dont have a perimeter player the caliber of Kobe, nor are they a finished product so its hard to use the Lakers model since to me they are not similar teams. I think things arent as dire as the original poster made them out to be.

[craig01]

Some points I agree with, and with others it's just too soon to cast pall over his chosen path (if it is).

I am not a fan of, nor supporter of Smith, but I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until his hand is etched in stone (may not be far away either).

This summer may tell us a lot. I'll reserve judgment until then.

[spinedoc]

One major flaw with the rationale of this thread. The Lakers got Gasol for expiring contracts because of West's connection between the two teams. Did you see who was there handing the trophy to the conference champs?, yep it was the logo. To make things equal, we would have to have Twardziks' influence to get us Al Harrington for our spare parts, and only then can we even attempt to compare the two paths of these two teams. Without the addition of Gasol, we have a totally different outcome.

[MoMM]

And do not forget that Bynum is injured and still the Lakers will be the NBA Champions.

[richboy]

The Magic dont have a perimeter player the caliber of Kobe, nor are they a finished product so its hard to use the Lakers model since to me they are not similar teams. I think things arent as dire as the original poster made them out to be.

We will find out if there a finished product. When right now all seems to be in the works is the MLE and using your draft pick your pretty close to saying your finished product.

I would bet that most Magic fans would think.

Nelson > Fisher
Hedo > Odom
Evans = Vlad
Dwight >>>Gasol

Which pretty much leaves Rashard in comparison to Kobe. Especially since Bynum isn't playing right now. When Otis signed Rashard he said he wanted someone that he could give the ball to and could get him 2 points. At least at the time sounded like Otis thought he was getting himself a finisher not a spot up shooter. Fact is though with Dwight being so much better than Gasol you don't really need someone the level of Kobe.

[Cammo101]

The Lakers were given Gasol for nothing. That is why they become a contender. It has zero to do with Kupchak.

[richboy]

One major flaw with the rationale of this thread. The Lakers got Gasol for expiring contracts because of West's connection between the two teams. Did you see who was there handing the trophy to the conference champs?, yep it was the logo. To make things equal, we would have to have Twardziks' influence to get us Al Harrington for our spare parts, and only then can we even attempt to compare the two paths of these two teams. Without the addition of Gasol, we have a totally different outcome.

No once again the problem is your rationale that you heard something but was proven untrue a long time ago.

That entire West helped Gasol to the Lakers was done weeks ago when the Grizzlies owner talked about him being the one that wanted to do this trade. Matter of fact he said that he offered Gasol to the Bulls but they didn't want to pay the luxury tax by resigning PJ Brown. That other teams didn't have expiring contracts to offer but would not offer compariable talent.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... decisions/

[richboy]

The Lakers were given Gasol for nothing. That is why they become a contender. It has zero to do with Kupchak.

Well you should read that link if your thinking that same thing.

You comment is ridiculous. Zero to do with Kupchak? Memphis received two prospects they really liked in Marc Gasol who would likely go lottery or top 20 in this years draft if he was in it and Javaris who would likely have been top 10 prospect in this draft if he was in it. His ability to do some good drafting and saving that expiring contract that some of you would have sent out for Jason Kidd or any number of players and he has nothing to do with it.

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

To the first poster; Don't waste your time typing up some dribble. The only reason LA is a championship contender is because Memphis wanted them to win it all and took on scrubs for Pao Gasol.

If we knew all it took to get Pao was Pat Garrity, we'd still be playing as well.

[spinedoc]

-= original quote snipped =-



No once again the problem is your rationale that you heard something but was proven untrue a long time ago.

That entire West helped Gasol to the Lakers was done weeks ago when the Grizzlies owner talked about him being the one that wanted to do this trade. Matter of fact he said that he offered Gasol to the Bulls but they didn't want to pay the luxury tax by resigning PJ Brown. That other teams didn't have expiring contracts to offer but would not offer compariable talent.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... decisions/

And you believe him? Why would you blindly believe that but yet give Otis so much grief all the time? Then you tout the great prospects that Memphis got in the deal? Hello, one of them is Pau's younger brother. Thats crazy man. Kupchak does not deserve credit for getting such a gift. Again, the comparison to us and the Lakers are not even remotely close Rich.

[Happyfoosball]

Boston and LA were given gifts. It wasn't because they had good GMS.

[Devin 1L]

lol

To Otis,

Find an incompetent GM to trade you his franchise player for pennies on the dollar.

I hope you're taking notes.

[PimpORL]

I completely agree too. Magic don't take enough risks. We should go for every big name available. I would worry about finding scrubs when we're already the best team in the league. Making trades for scrubs at this point pisses me off and that's all we've been doing.