Magic Sign Smith to Multi-Year Extension [Twardzik Too]

[maginno]

lol. nothing's a simple matter of logic with you. it's a simple matter of skewed statistics to back up your point. i don't even know who you were referring to with the whole "a player who's played over 250 games" comment, and you well know that. that was an open ended sentence that had a whole lot of holes in it, as i pointed out.

The hole is in your thought process. Obviously it was an example without reference to a particular player and its right there in the post in plain English. I don't need to specify a particularly player when I was using a hypothetical example referring to players in general. further more you prove you understand it completely by applying the example to a player I didn't specify -

by your reasoning, you don't expect Dwight to develop AT ALL, because he's played over 250 games before turning 23 and all the rational people have "seen what his game is". lol. yet David West could become the next Moses Malone because he hasn't fulfilled his 250 game quota.

So you knew I was using it generally of players because you understood it enough to apply my example to your specific.

However Sorry please reference what a strawman argument is because you just made one. No one said a player could not get better AT ALL. Thats your invention. What Rich said and logic concurs is that playing time not just age OBVIOUSLY is a factor when determining the chances of a player getting better. The more you see of a player the more likely you are to know what his skill set is and the more likely you are to accurately forecast his possibilities for improvement. Continue to argue against common sense.

seriously, i don't get what you were referring to with that. games started don't reflect player ability.

Oh brother. Starting doesn't reflect playing ability? and starting doesn't indicate increased and regular playing time? and regular playing time doesn't give you a better indication of what a player's skill sets are? and knowing those things doesn't give you a better picture of future ability?

Dwight will improve more in areas where he has shown improvement We saw in preseason and toward the early part of the season some additional offensive moves he's working on. He'll get better at footwork and learning the game more. So of course you are talking pure nonsense about me not expecting him to improve at all. But do I expect Dwight to become a prolific three point shooter? of course not. We've seen enough of his skillset to know that three point shooting is not going to be his thing. He's not likely to be a dirk like player from the arc. Is this really that hard to understand?

[Bensational]

wow man. you've got the most long winded way of getting around to saying the player will become more refined.

and my original point is you're willing to give West the benefit of the doubt of developing at a rate that's more than someone like Hedo for what reason? you can argue that we've seen what Hedo can do, but obivously we haven't as he proved this year, as a 29/30 year old player, by becoming the most improved player in the league. and he's started a similar amount of games to West, since that's what you consider the almighty indicator of player ability. yet, this is where your double standards slide in because now Hedo's too old, or, for some reason he just doesn't have the ceiling to keep harnessing the range of talents he put on display this season, despite only being 2 years older than West and having started as many games as him.

and richboy used West's development as a reason to consider them a young team, despite the fact he's not all that young (a year younger than Lewis), but Lewis and Hedo are beyond that scope of benefit because you want to skew statistics to support your argument.

as a team and a system, the Magic are still young. they've only just come together under SVG, Lewis has only just joined the team. Hedo has just found a system that suits his game. whereas West, Paul and the others have been together for the better part of 3-4 seasons.

[maginno]

Actually Hedo didn't do much different than he's shown through the years. He's given Stan alot of credit for the system and he's become more involved. He always had a drive to the basket and his outside shot. So your thesis that he sprouted a new skill set is false. Its no great wonder that in the year he had the most minutes and was deemed by the new coach to be the only go to guy his numbers went up.

Sorry the stars are against you as well as common sense. if you think the name of the organization implies that all these players who have shown what they can do will have an upswing like Hedo had this year then have fun with it. Its not reality but its soothing to the soul so go for it.

[Bensational]

ok, now on the flip side, show me this spectacular new skill set that West developed this season, that he's never displayed before.

[Rccanes2311]

1. i was going to write a long winded post agreeing with the one above, but it's really early in the morning and utorrent is just about finished with the film i was downloading.
2. i'll make this brief:
3. fire otis and euthanize twardzik.
4. now.
5. trade rashard lewis for corey maggette and whoever else we can get to make the salaries match.
6. don't care who.
7. draft a power forward and use the MLE on a point guard.
8. that is all.

Is this a serious post because it sounds like sarcasm haha?

[Rccanes2311]

wow man. you've got the most long winded way of getting around to saying the player will become more refined.

and my original point is you're willing to give West the benefit of the doubt of developing at a rate that's more than someone like Hedo for what reason? you can argue that we've seen what Hedo can do, but obivously we haven't as he proved this year, as a 29/30 year old player, by becoming the most improved player in the league. and he's started a similar amount of games to West, since that's what you consider the almighty indicator of player ability. yet, this is where your double standards slide in because now Hedo's too old, or, for some reason he just doesn't have the ceiling to keep harnessing the range of talents he put on display this season, despite only being 2 years older than West and having started as many games as him.

and richboy used West's development as a reason to consider them a young team, despite the fact he's not all that young (a year younger than Lewis), but Lewis and Hedo are beyond that scope of benefit because you want to skew statistics to support your argument.

as a team and a system, the Magic are still young. they've only just come together under SVG, Lewis has only just joined the team. Hedo has just found a system that suits his game. whereas West, Paul and the others have been together for the better part of 3-4 seasons.

I follow what your saying about the 2 of them becoming more refined, I just have a hard time seeing it happening. Hedo has just hit his peak, and I believe Lewis hit his peak 2 years ago. I think the two are at their peak potential wise, and my biggest fear about losing Hedo is that Reshard won't be able to make up for his loss.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

["Rccanes2311"]-= original quote snipped =-



Why are you giving excuses and reaching for things to make Lewis seem better than he is stop it just stop.

I don't believe I like the tonality of your post...

You are in no position to tell me to do ANYTHING. Nor do I see why you feel the need to single me out in this situation becasue I expressed my opinion to give Shard a chance because he had to deal with playing out of position all year.

I read these long winded, circular logic posts all day, in which people are just regurgitating their own vile ignorance on subjects they don't really have any true insight on and masquerading as knowledgeable authorities of the subject matter; and I don't tell anyone to stop becuase I believe they are entitled to their own opinion. In fact, the only person on this forum that may have any REAL knowledge is the one that doesn't go on ad nauseum. The rest seem like fans who are trying to share their ideas, hopes and desires with others of like mind. There, to me only seems a few who are predisposed to argue with everybody and every thing good that is written in this forum for the mere sake of having to be right due to what I can only assume is some sort of inferiority or Napoleonic complex.

EVERYONE is entitled to there opinion. Please don't tell me that I am not...
I can appreciate your opinion on this less when you preface it by telling me to stop voicing my own. It's my belief that you wouldn't be talking like this to anyone if you weren't behind a pc when doing it... Now maybe you didn't mean it this way or maybe you're having a bad day, but this is what it looks like to me when I read it and it's not appreciated.

So how bout we just share our opinions and express our disagreement in a cordial manner so as to not have this break down into something that resembles a feces flinging match.

[spinedoc]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'm quite sure it not only dictates but alas indicates the quality of the said logic especially with your pretend loathing of name calling

I'll pass on the grammar correction. School's out.

Your right, I have grown to despise your wise ass, and your damn lucky that these conversations weren't taking place in person because I definitely would have snatched you up by now. Your tone is absolutely disgusting to me. How do you expect anyone to respect you when you give so little in return? To use references like "is the logic too hard to grasp", or that your point is that of common sense and everyone else's isn't because they simply disagree with you is the childish remark. Trust me Maginno, anyone that has bothered to engage you has already been having the kiddie argument. There is a reason all those kids are outside your house waiting for you to come outside. I normally step up for the bullied kid, but I'd definitely make an exception with you. And to anyone out there reading this who is waiting for our little paste eating Maginno........ don't worry, he can't hide forever.

[craig01]

This is all pretty pointless, isn't it?

[mhectorgato]

spinedoc:

I understand the frustration, which is why I backed out long ago (should have done much earlier), but there's no point in lowering yourself to as low or even lower.

Hopefully I've learned enough to prevent my involvement in the future.

[richboy]

wow man. you've got the most long winded way of getting around to saying the player will become more refined.

and my original point is you're willing to give West the benefit of the doubt of developing at a rate that's more than someone like Hedo for what reason? you can argue that we've seen what Hedo can do, but obivously we haven't as he proved this year, as a 29/30 year old player, by becoming the most improved player in the league. and he's started a similar amount of games to West, since that's what you consider the almighty indicator of player ability. yet, this is where your double standards slide in because now Hedo's too old, or, for some reason he just doesn't have the ceiling to keep harnessing the range of talents he put on display this season, despite only being 2 years older than West and having started as many games as him.

and richboy used West's development as a reason to consider them a young team, despite the fact he's not all that young (a year younger than Lewis), but Lewis and Hedo are beyond that scope of benefit because you want to skew statistics to support your argument.

as a team and a system, the Magic are still young. they've only just come together under SVG, Lewis has only just joined the team. Hedo has just found a system that suits his game. whereas West, Paul and the others have been together for the better part of 3-4 seasons.

Well you must have missed my thread a year ago where I said that Hedo was almost as good as Rashard then. Matter of fact I said then that SF was not a problem and that the resources should be used on SG.

Despite what Hedo award says Hedo has always been the player you see today. The problem was he was severely under utilized. Under Brian Hill Hedo spent almost all his time on the weakside just spotting up for 3 pointers. It was like the only thing coach Hill thought he could do was make jump shots. Prior to that we just put all the playmaking duties on Grant Hill, Jameer, Steve Francis hands.

SVG completely changed the way that Hedo was used. Instead of Hedo playing the weak side he put Rashard on the weak side and put the ball in Hedo's hands. Hedo and Dwight 2 man pick-n-roll became the staple of the offense. In close games we often would run that same play for Hedo 4 5 straight times.

Hedo has not developed any new skills. He just finally was given an opportunity to showcase what he could. He had shown in stretches when Grant was injured or when he first joined the team that he could really do some dynamic things. The former regime didn't believe but SVG when coming on board told Hedo that his days of being a role player was over.

slight contradiction there isn't it?

and my point with Jameer was that he's shown he can have an impact. which is exactly what he did. becoming more consistent in that area is precisely where he can improve. that's his window for development. and that's how he offers game changing performances, and has room to develop with those, as does Chandler. hence, another reason why Orlando and NO are comparable.

No were talking different cases. Jameer was not very good in the regular season. He at best was average if not a worse PG. His 16 points per game in the playoffs was not the norm. In the end your saying ignore what we saw for 82 games or whatever amount he played and say that what we say in 10 is what we can expect. Unfortunately, since Jameer is a fourth option and could be a 5th option I'm going into next year thinking he will be more about the 10 than the 16.

With David West and Chris Paul they were great in the regular season. Paul was nearly MVP and they both were all-stars. West continued to play well in the playoffs and Paul played even better. I'm not saying that we should expect Paul to play at that level next season. I'm saying the fact that they showed they could maintain that level of play puts them ahead of Dwight/Rashard IMO. Rashard has not been a good playoff performer in his career. Dwight has shown he struggles against good defensive front lines.

By your last paragraph you could say that Boston is a young team. Really with the turnover in the NBA you could say almost the entire league is young. I also find it funny that people are predicting the end of Boston and Detroit when they have more young talent than the Magic. The Celtics have 2 very young players in there starting lineup that should get better. They have 2 good young PFs on there bench. Really KG, Pierce, Allen look like they could play at around the same level there playing now for atleast 2 or 3 more seasons. Really the Celtics should be better next year than they are this year.

[spinedoc]

spinedoc:

I understand the frustration, which is why I backed out long ago (should have done much earlier), but there's no point in lowering yourself to as low or even lower.

Hopefully I've learned enough to prevent my involvement in the future.

I know, its out of character for me, but the kid needs a serious attitude adjustment. I'd love to volunteer for that, but I tried, I'm done with him. I hate to put anyone on ignore, but it looks like I might have my first candidate. I'm cool now, lol.

[maginno]

Your right, I have grown to despise your wise ass, and your damn lucky that these conversations weren't taking place in person because I definitely would have snatched you up by now. Your tone is absolutely disgusting to me. How do you expect anyone to respect you when you give so little in return?

How can you even talk about tone and respect after you and Bensational have been running around in this thread comparing me to a clueless fictional character from the "Confederate of Dunces" (weren't you the one claiming that there never was a danger of taking my posts seriously?). One thing that is consistent is your hypocrisy. Besides which you couldn't even survive a day in some of the communities I've lived in. Don't mess with what you don't know. You merely assume in your backward possibly racist mentality that someone that can put together a few sentences must be a little white kid that you can pounce on. Awfully silly to characterize people on a forum without knowing who you are dealing with. If we met personally You'd be in for quite a shock.

To use references like "is the logic too hard to grasp", or that your point is that of common sense and everyone else's isn't because they simply disagree with you is the childish remark.

As your post here demonstrates its not the lack of intelligence that gets you on to these points its your emotions at having someone disagree with you. I (and rich at times who isn't in this argument with you) have been called a moron, idiot , stupid, fool by you and your friends a number of times just for expressing our opinions yet you think you have some moral supremacy to take me on for saying "is the logic too hard to grasp"? One of the first directives I ever got here before I had gotten into anything with anyone was to STFU and you think you and yours can claim high ground?

I do want to make clear to others at least - I do not for one moment think that the reason you and others are arguing with such obvious points as playing time indicating what the potential of a player might be has anything to do with intelligence. It has more to do with your great love of defending Otis at all costs. You've said many times that what you hate the most is the opinion being stated over and over again. Since you have no problem defending over and over again I will have no problem sharing my opinions as well. It remains true that I have never started these threads and it remains true that you in particular have baited arguments referring to me in threads about Otis or Rashard even before I entered a thread.

As for referring to common sense. I don't know why anyone would think their point of view was not common sense or why would they post it?

[mhectorgato]

I know, its out of character for me, but the kid needs a serious attitude adjustment. I'd love to volunteer for that, but I tried, I'm done with him. I hate to put anyone on ignore, but it looks like I might have my first candidate. I'm cool now, lol.

You have a good rep (as far as I'm concerned) around here and would hate for it get soiled because of frustrations ...

[TheGlyde]

I think this has gone on far enough.

Take a breather everybody.