Game 16: Timberwolves vs. Sixers aka Walking Wounded 7:30 pm ET Game Thread

[Kobblehead]

P.J. Tucker: 44% from three (1.9 attempts per 36), 8.7% rebounding, 4.1% assist, 1% steal, 1.4% block
Georges Niang: 42.7% from three (9.4 attempts per 36), 5.7% rebounding, 5.5% assist, 1.1% steal, 1.8% block

Georges Niang is a better player on both ends of the floor, at this point. The only thing Tucker does better is rebound. We're already dead last in the NBA in rebounding and Tucker is awful at rebounding anyway so it doesn't even matter. Make the switch and reverse their roles.

[Skates]

The biggest problem with this team is a lack of draw and dish and on ball creators for others. Tucker and House get a lot of their points shooting threes off the catch and shoot. Harden is the only guy who can really do that consistently and he has spent too much time this year when he is playing trying to score (though he still gets a ton of assists, so no complaints). Their overuse of Harden and Maxey as the sole point guards is insane, especially since Maxey is best as a secondary creator, not a primary one. Melton and Shake can handle the ball, but don't really set other people up. Joel is back to passing more of late, but this team really needs a backup point guard who creates for others.

House and Tucker and Melton and Harris and Niang can all be deadly from three if there is someone creating or if everyone is moving and cutting, but Doc overplaying so many guys cuts down on movement due to fatigue )oh yeah, and injuries) and they revert to iso ball, which makes the C&S guys very unproductive. House can get points on the break, Tucker can't do that, so taking 4-5 three pointers a game by Tucker is the only way you get offense from him and it has to be assisted, plus maybe one putback off the O boards. He commands coverage when he is out in the corner, you can't lay off of him the way you would a non-shooter, but actually making use of that skill requires more creativity than the team has shown this year.

The second best point guard on this team is probably Furkan, that needs to be corrected and let Maxey ball out as a scorer and secondary creator.

[Kobblehead]

All the reserve Gs that meet the description of being able to penetrate and kick and playmake for other usually can't shoot and you wind up playing 4-on-5 on offense because of it.

I think there's more than enough playmaking between Maxey/Melton/Milton. Just need Doc to run a better offense that encourages ball movement and player movement.

[youngcrev]

P.J. Tucker: 44% from three (1.9 attempts per 36), 8.7% rebounding, 4.1% assist, 1% steal, 1.4% block
Georges Niang: 42.7% from three (9.4 attempts per 36), 5.7% rebounding, 5.5% assist, 1.1% steal, 1.8% block

Georges Niang is a better player on both ends of the floor, at this point. The only thing Tucker does better is rebound. We're already dead last in the NBA in rebounding and Tucker is awful at rebounding anyway so it doesn't even matter. Make the switch and reverse their roles.

Niang is obviously a better shooter and more skilled in general offensively, but come on, defensively? Tucker's matched up with guys like KD, KAT, Tatum, Giannis while the Minivan is a switch target that needs to be hidden. He seems sound with rotations and can take a charge, but you can't possibly think he's the better defender based simply on steal and block percentages. He might be the slowest lateral speed guy in the league under 7 foot.

[Stanford]

Just need Doc to run a better offense that encourages ball movement and player movement.

What's plan B?

[phillynative]

All the reserve Gs that meet the description of being able to penetrate and kick and playmake for other usually can't shoot and you wind up playing 4-on-5 on offense because of it.

I think there's more than enough playmaking between Maxey/Melton/Milton. Just need Doc to run a better offense that encourages ball movement and player movement.

This is what made Shake intriguing for a short period when he had that good stretch a few seasons ago. He wasn't drive and kick but he was a solid enough P&R ball handler to produce points there by way of the lob , pocket pass , a little middy or all the way using his 7ft wingspan. He doesn't have any burst and his handles are loose for a lead guard he needs to up his 3pt percentage to gain some gravity.

[Skates]

Shake is much better on the ball than the off the ball role they used him in early in the season, hopefully they keep that up once Maxey and Harden are back.

Can we all agree that KAT is an utter joke on a supermax? He looked terrified of Embiid, was blocked by Melton and that team is going to deeply regret the Gobert deal and KAT contract extension when they needed to trade KAT and Russell and rebuild around Edwards, the only real star on that team?

[Bum Adebayo]

KAT is still much better than Bum Simmons though, so we did much worse by giving Simmons that contract

[SixthStreet]

I don't really understand the bellyache over Tucker. If we didn't sign him, Harden takes that $10m annually for himself. It's not like Harden would have taken the same haircut for Player X.

Whatever we get out of Tucker we get. It's all a bonus.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Tucker was expected to be able to at least hit open threes here at a respectable clip. It hasn't happened. He definitely benefits with a facilitator like Harden on the floor and now he's reduced to playing a role similar to Paul Reed. I don't think anyone here expected Tucker to suddenly be able to create offense for himself, but my God! He can't even make open threes which has been his bread and butter for staying in the league. I like his defense, he's battling on that end, if he can start hitting open threes again he'll be worth the signing. Right now without Harden and Maxey, it's hard to really place any expectations on Tucker other than him playing tough defense on whoever he's guarding. I don't think him playing center is a good idea at all. We have Embiid, Trez, and Reed who can all man that position. One of them should be on the floor at all times.

He's shooting 44% from 3...

I think him at center works really well with the Harden switch everything groups. They probably go to it a bit too much though.

I didn't know his percentage was that high! Maybe I'm just missing the games where he actually makes them? I don't know, but I stand corrected. Also, I don't like him at center under these circumstances...SHould probably clear that up. I think it can work IF Harden is in there with him, but without him Tucker at center is a major liability from what I have seen.

[mjkvol]

The scheduling is just stupid sometimes. Back to back, 4 days off, another back to back? Why?

Anyway, the "no reason to watch these games" is only amplified right now with the injuries.

I'm finding it a good policy regardless of injuries.

Stanford rules.

[youngcrev]

Tucker was expected to be able to at least hit open threes here at a respectable clip. It hasn't happened. He definitely benefits with a facilitator like Harden on the floor and now he's reduced to playing a role similar to Paul Reed. I don't think anyone here expected Tucker to suddenly be able to create offense for himself, but my God! He can't even make open threes which has been his bread and butter for staying in the league. I like his defense, he's battling on that end, if he can start hitting open threes again he'll be worth the signing. Right now without Harden and Maxey, it's hard to really place any expectations on Tucker other than him playing tough defense on whoever he's guarding. I don't think him playing center is a good idea at all. We have Embiid, Trez, and Reed who can all man that position. One of them should be on the floor at all times.

He's shooting 44% from 3...

I think him at center works really well with the Harden switch everything groups. They probably go to it a bit too much though.

I didn't know his percentage was that high! Maybe I'm just missing the games where he actually makes them? I don't know, but I stand corrected. Also, I don't like him at center under these circumstances...SHould probably clear that up. I think it can work IF Harden is in there with him, but without him Tucker at center is a major liability from what I have seen.

At his attempt rate it's hard to keep track.

I didn't realize he's taken 3 shots in the last 4 games while playing over 30mpg

[phillynative]

Tucker was expected to be able to at least hit open threes here at a respectable clip. It hasn't happened. He definitely benefits with a facilitator like Harden on the floor and now he's reduced to playing a role similar to Paul Reed. I don't think anyone here expected Tucker to suddenly be able to create offense for himself, but my God! He can't even make open threes which has been his bread and butter for staying in the league. I like his defense, he's battling on that end, if he can start hitting open threes again he'll be worth the signing. Right now without Harden and Maxey, it's hard to really place any expectations on Tucker other than him playing tough defense on whoever he's guarding. I don't think him playing center is a good idea at all. We have Embiid, Trez, and Reed who can all man that position. One of them should be on the floor at all times.

He's shooting 44% from 3...

I think him at center works really well with the Harden switch everything groups. They probably go to it a bit too much though.

I didn't know his percentage was that high! Maybe I'm just missing the games where he actually makes them? I don't know, but I stand corrected. Also, I don't like him at center under these circumstances...SHould probably clear that up. I think it can work IF Harden is in there with him, but without him Tucker at center is a major liability from what I have seen.

It would work if there was more length and athleticism on the wings.

[76ciology]

P.J. Tucker: 44% from three (1.9 attempts per 36), 8.7% rebounding, 4.1% assist, 1% steal, 1.4% block
Georges Niang: 42.7% from three (9.4 attempts per 36), 5.7% rebounding, 5.5% assist, 1.1% steal, 1.8% block

Georges Niang is a better player on both ends of the floor, at this point. The only thing Tucker does better is rebound. We're already dead last in the NBA in rebounding and Tucker is awful at rebounding anyway so it doesn't even matter. Make the switch and reverse their roles.

This.

But one thing about Tucker is what Hardengoat pointed out he slows down the penetration (and limits the penetration) so there will be less cat and mouse game with Biid against two scorers in the paint scenario.

He should play 1-2 or just 5 on defense, this makes him a special player than Niang. Where at the 3-4, Niang, Thybulle, Reed or Melton would be much better option. With Maxey, Harden and Embiid, you need another player who can generate deflections. This is why we played well with starters with Thybulle or Green. I dont know if we were projecting Tobias to be good at deflections because he was that during the 2022 playoffs and he’s decent this season but it’s just not enough. And even so.. that dont solve the rebounding problem.

At the 1-2 (Heat)
Harden
Tucker
Melton (plays like Jimmy’s role)
Tobias
Biid

At the 5 (Rox)
Maxey
Harden
Melton (deflection)
Biid (deflection)
Tucker

Its just so weird that you need to restructure your scheme and roster just to max Tucker, which goes to show that he’s a bad fit unless the intent has always been this.. Being a net zero player

[76ciology]

You have to ask yourself, do you prioritize 5 out offense or defense/rebounding? Because you dont have the luxury of both.

If you go for 5 out offense, you have a hole with rebounding and defense.

If you go for rebounding and defense, you can’t have this 5 out offense.

I watch Embiid and all he does is do his thing at the elbow. I dont know why you need 4 out offense around him. He even tries to find cutters below the rim when he operates at the elbow on ISO

[youngcrev]

So all we have to do to optimize our players is to play the same lineups but label them different positionally...?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume I'm reading that wrong.

[76ciology]

So all we have to do to optimize our players is to play the same lineups but label them different positionally...?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume I'm reading that wrong.

Not just label but assign them to different roles on defense.

If Tucker is at the 5 and Embiid is at the 4, Embiid plays a help side defender and can crash the boards better. Than being at the 5 where is has to be at the paint playing cat and mouse. And rely on Tucker-Tobias for weakside defense and crashing of the boards.

If you look at Biid and Giannis’ profile on defense they’re the same. But Giannis plays the weakside help defender and crashing of boards role while for Embiid he has to play both Brook Lopez and Giannis’ role. This is why we always fall short on defense.

If Sixers wants to continue this type of defense where Embiid has to play the 5, then Sixers has to utilize Reed and let Reed play weakside help defense and crashing the boards like Giannis.

“But wont that tire out Tucker or Embiid”

You don’t get to play good defense by not exerting effort.

[LeonJordanJr24]

My opinion:

I think fans, front offices, and players overvalue the intangible aspects Tucker brings to the equation and don't properly criticize him for how poor his tangible contributions are.

The facts are that he's been an awful rebounder, an unproductive defensive deflector, and his scoring and playmaking are also a zero.

The ONLY positive tangible quality he brings to the table is good shooting. And even THAT is mitigated by low volume.

I also think because hes a tweener and were dealing with multiple tweener you have to do a bit of puzzle piecing. He played well next to Giannis and Bam because they make up for what he lacks in length and athleticism. We have him next to guys with similar flaws. Say we had Jerami Grant instead of Tobias his added length and athleticism would fit in nice between Tucker and Embiid on both ends of the floor.

EXACTLY!

Another thing is Tucker is special because of his ability to defend 1 to 5.

Rather putting him where we expect him to..
- score
- rebound
- help Embiid in rim protection

That isn’t Tucker.

You want to max out Tucker? Let him be primary defender of 1 or 2 (Harden, Trae) or 5 (Rox), then let him deny the two man game by switching.

Watch on YouTube

Trading Tobias for a legit stretch 4 with athleticism and size fixes the issues.

Tucker and Niang can both play 4/3 in lineups

We need more size and athleticism to help our rebound issues .

[76ciology]

I also think because hes a tweener and were dealing with multiple tweener you have to do a bit of puzzle piecing. He played well next to Giannis and Bam because they make up for what he lacks in length and athleticism. We have him next to guys with similar flaws. Say we had Jerami Grant instead of Tobias his added length and athleticism would fit in nice between Tucker and Embiid on both ends of the floor.

EXACTLY!

Another thing is Tucker is special because of his ability to defend 1 to 5.

Rather putting him where we expect him to..
- score
- rebound
- help Embiid in rim protection

That isn’t Tucker.

You want to max out Tucker? Let him be primary defender of 1 or 2 (Harden, Trae) or 5 (Rox), then let him deny the two man game by switching.

Watch on YouTube

Trading Tobias for a legit stretch 4 with athleticism and size fixes the issues.

Tucker and Niang can both play 4/3 in lineups

We need more size and athleticism to help our rebound issues .

I dont mind trading Tobias. Im all for a Porzingis or Collins trade for Tobi. Im first to post either of those trades on the trade thread when Harden was still not on the team and both guys’ value are very low.

legit stretch 4 with athleticism and size ain’t easy. I believe for now the options are..

A.) 5 out offense but sacrifice rebounding and interior defense
B.) Rebounding and interior defense but sacrifice 5 out offense

*embiid has been doing most of his damage and is most lethal at mid range