Willie Green needs to go ASAP

[Fire BK]

Green's play has improved this year and especially recently. He does not dominate the ball (and should never be allowed to play at the point) as much, he's become more efficient scoring and he is taking the ball to the hole more often like he did before he was hurt. On this team he deserves to be starting, by next year he should be coming off the bench if this team intends to improve. As a third or fourth guard I think he is fine. He is not really a combo guard, he is a shooting guard plain and simple.

A lot of people, including me, were upset because BK gave him that ridiculous contract when he was still far away from being fully recovered from the knee injury. The total money and number of years were bad, but all he did was sign the contract our GM was dumb enough to give him. It took him a long time to recover his explosion and ability/willingness to drive to the basket after the injury, and truthfully it seemed more mental than physical after a while.

He is streaky, journeyman SG who is playing well right now and has never had a bad attitude about starting or coming off the bench. He is s useful piece, nothing more, nothing less. Hating on the guy for getting paid when he shouldn't have is misdirected anger.

solid post.

I agree completely.

[bebopdeluxe]

I agree...nice post, Skates...and welcome to the forum.

I look forward to hearing more from you...

[dbodner]

Hating on the guy for getting paid when he shouldn't have is misdirected anger.

Earlier in the year (and in previous seasons) I hated on him for the way he played (bad shot selection, black hole offensively), and hated BK for the contract. I've always liked Willie for his professionalism, so if he continues playing as well as he is now, I will have no problem with him on my team.

[Fire BK]

yea, you know, since we're on the topic of BK and WG today, can we talk for a moment about that silly contract?

The two parties agreed in-principle on terms for a long term deal - which was bloated even before the injury... But then, WG sustained an injury in practice that required surgery. HE WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT WITH THE SIXERS! BK had no financial obligations to WG whatsoever... To this day, it's absolutely amazing to me that BK let WG's agent push him around like that.... I can only imagine the discussions:

Agent: You owe us that money, silly Billy.

BK: No I don't. We didn't sign anything.

Agent: Actually, we had an implied contract, and a court will find that we had an agreement, regardless of anything in writing. You don't want to expend resources on mediation, arbitration, and especially not litigation. We will win. You will lose. Trust me, I'm a lawyer. You're wrong.

BK: Oh. Ok. Here's a pen.

Great job by Billy in doing his due diligence... What a sucker. According to one GM, BK was the laughing stock of the NBA.... He was the fish at the poker table.

[dond]

yea, you know, since we're on the topic of BK and WG today, can we talk for a moment about that silly contract?

The two parties agreed in-principle on terms for a long term deal - which was bloated even before the injury... But then, WG sustained an injury in practice that required surgery. HE WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT WITH THE SIXERS! BK had no financial obligations to WG whatsoever... To this day, it's absolutely amazing to me that BK let WG's agent push him around like that.... I can only imagine the discussions:

Agent: You owe us that money, silly Billy.

BK: No I don't. We didn't sign anything.

Agent: Actually, we had an implied contract, and a court will find that we had an agreement, regardless of anything in writing. You don't want to expend resources on mediation, arbitration, and especially not litigation. We will win. You will lose. Trust me, I'm a lawyer. You're wrong.

BK: Oh. Ok. Here's a pen.

Great job by Billy in doing his due diligence... What a sucker. According to one GM, BK was the laughing stock of the NBA.... He was the fish at the poker table.

So, you just make stuff up and present it as evidence of something you wish to believe ???

So, we are supposed to be impressed by this nonsense ??

[dond]

I hear a few references to Willie Green's contract ....

I just want to be clear on that subject.

Is the issue that Willie Green was signed for too much money or for too long a period of time or both ?

And ... do you think that is the case right now also ?

[dbodner]

too long. no way he should have been given a guaranteed 5 year deal coming off an injury when no other team on earth would have given him that. This is the first year of his deal I feel he's actually earned his pay check.

[PhillyRocks1]

If Green plays out the rest of his contract, and he is playing the way he is this year. It was a great contract. His value would go up.

[Fire BK]

So, you just make stuff up and present it as evidence of something you wish to believe ???

So, we are supposed to be impressed by this nonsense ??

Dond, what exactly are you referring to?

The particular trajectory of (1) agreement-in-principal, then (2) injury, then (3) contract signed for the exact same amount as discussed prior to the injury.... This timeline was widely reported.

Obviously the hypothetical agent/BK conversation was fictitious... I was just trying to gauge how BK could've possibly been worked-over, post-injury like that. Sorry if you think that was nonsense. Just having fun with the legal underpinnings of WG's contract.

As for the later statement citing a GM, refer to the "New Posters!" thread if you're curious where my info comes from. Frankly, I shouldn't even be exposing this source--- and I certainly won't be doing so anymore--- but people keep questioning me. You can choose to believe these items or not. Really doesn't matter to me. But I'm not in the business of starting "nonsense" for rumors' sake.

[Skates]

The problem with BK and contracts is that he always seemed to be bidding against himself. Willie Green and Kenny Thomas being the prime examples. If he had a deal in place with WG before he got hurt, I can see honoring it to some extent, it gives the organization some positive spin for players who want to come here. A one or two year deal for a couple of million would have given WG some financial security and allowed him to rehab, contribute a little and re-establish his worth if he could. Handing him five guaranteed years was insane. We are lucky that he is finally starting to play to form or it would have been a complete waste.

On WG as a point guard, sure he has the skills to play a few minutes there, but's not a good thing for him to do. When he plays on the ball he dominates it, kind of like AI only not nearly as good. He just does nt have a PG mindset. Playing off the ball this year has forced him to be more efficient with his touches.

[Kunlun]

Willie Green is a good deal for what he brings. There are much worse contracts out there for much worse players.

[chrice]

Willie must stay for the sake of the 6ers' future!

[dond]

too long. no way he should have been given a guaranteed 5 year deal coming off an injury when no other team on earth would have given him that. This is the first year of his deal I feel he's actually earned his pay check.

Well, I have 2 issues with this. First ...The part about "no other team on earth would have given him that". You don't know that. That may not be true. And second ... Had he been given a shorter contract, the Sixers may be negotiating with him right now. I am not sure that would be a good thing. Usually when a player begins to play well, his value goes up. So, I would suggest that it may have been a good move to lock him up for a longer period of time to give him a chance to heal and develop before needing to negotiate with him again. It may also be possible that Billy King saw the raw talent in Willie Green (that I also saw) and decided that he was worth the risk. It appears that he may have been right.

[dond]

Dond, what exactly are you referring to?

The particular trajectory of (1) agreement-in-principal, then (2) injury, then (3) contract signed for the exact same amount as discussed prior to the injury.... This timeline was widely reported.

Obviously the hypothetical agent/BK conversation was fictitious... I was just trying to gauge how BK could've possibly been worked-over, post-injury like that. Sorry if you think that was nonsense. Just having fun with the legal underpinnings of WG's contract.

As for the later statement citing a GM, refer to the "New Posters!" thread if you're curious where my info comes from. Frankly, I shouldn't even be exposing this source--- and I certainly won't be doing so anymore--- but people keep questioning me. You can choose to believe these items or not. Really doesn't matter to me. But I'm not in the business of starting "nonsense" for rumors' sake.

I hardly know where to begin with a response to this. You admit you made up most of your posting. You obviously are quite passionate about throwing Billy King under the bus so that part about a GM is called into question. You may be having a "little fun" with that also.

Also, most ... if not all ... GM's have been in this world for a while and would know better than to throw out something that inflamatory about another GM that might get back to them. So, as you say ... I can choose to believe these items or not ... I choose not.

Oh, and one more thing ... the part about ... shouldn't be exposing this source ... and ... won't be doing so anymore ... Is that something like UNRINGING the bell ?

[Fire BK]

"You admit you made up most of your posting."

Huh? I made up the fictitious dialogue. That was obvious satire. Everything i presented as truth is legitimate. Don't attack me if you were uninformed regarding WG's post-injury contract.

"That part about a GM is called into question."

So this is the part you're hung-up about. Like i said, I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not. Since it rankles you so much when I share information, I'll be happy to cease doing so in the future if that suits you.

[dond]

"You admit you made up most of your posting."

Huh? I made up the fictitious dialogue. That was obvious satire. Everything i presented as truth is legitimate. Don't attack me if you were uninformed regarding WG's post-injury contract.

"That part about a GM is called into question."

So this is the part you're hung-up about. Like i said, I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not. Since it rankles you so much when I share information, I'll be happy to cease doing so in the future if that suits you.

I have no problem with legitimate information, but I am afraid you will need to build a little more credibility with me before I just gobble up some wild accusation about Billy King being the laughing stock of the NBA as professed by some mysterious GM who is a friend of one of your friends or cousins or whatever. I am sure you understand.

[Fire BK]

Good enough. Respect.