Does Anyone Else Feel Like We Must Do This?

[jmon]

SendEm, that logic makes no sense.

Just because you take more than one, doesn't mean one should work out. They might both work out, they might both be busts.

Either way, I am against the idea of two bigs from the same draft, especially considering the propensity to sign the starting PF in F. Agency a few days later.

I say, if you are gonna buy or trade for another first, make it a PG.

No, YOUR logic makes no sense. Do you know why? Because you are approaching the draft as if every year every position has the same amount of strength when this is not the case. This years PF/C position is VERY strong. There will be guys drafted at the top of the second round that are better prospects than Jason Smith was at the 20th pick last season[. This draft is weak at the PG position. It is so weak at the PG position that teams are reaching for combo guards with some PG ability like Westbrook and even 5'10 scoring guards like Augustine are mentioned being lottery picks. So approaching drafting players with a historical perspective is the best way to get the job done. You do better as a franchise if you can understand and utilize this concept. Therefore if we can walk away with two of these Big guys we can hedge our bets because it's 50/50 with these guys. Normally it's 50/50 with guys drafted in the mid teens, but some of these big guys will fall to the late first and early second. That's insane value. Again, not every draft holds the same amount of talent at all positions. A PG drafted late in this years draft would probably not have even been drafted in 2005 if he came out with the same age and skill level as this year.

While the logic of the sixersfan is poor, I would rather have a PG than another big. We have Sammy, Evans, Booth, Smith, Hill, and Thad already to play the 4/5. I think adding 1 more guy is more than enough...

Sendem, if you want to take history into account, there are a TON of factors to take into account.

I would read this article if I were you... http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Wor ... g-Up-2940/

It uses history to show that drafting bigs, where the Sixers are drafting, is normally a mistake. There is little reason to think this is a transcendental PF/C draft imo. I would say it is above average though. I think you are a bit "in love" with this draft and getting caught up in the moment, much like people do every year.

[jmon]

Sixers would have to match money seeing as how they aren't under the cap until July 1, so they would lose cap space long story short, unless it involves big contracts due to the 125% + 100,000 rule.

I'm not convinced that you presented all of the facts and explored all of the possibilities of the Sixers acquiring a second player drafted in the first round where the Sixers also have LESS or EQUAL cap space as they did before making this deal.

Thats possible for sure. Probably a question for the cba forum.

[SendEm]

It's not as much matter of me being in love with the draft as it is me recognizing that the Sixers only have one NBA quality big in Sammy.
Evans, Smith, Hill, LOL and Booth are all GARBAGE!
I'm not going to read some article by some guy that's just going to confirm what I already know in how rare and coveted big men prospects are to the point that they NORMALLY get drafted much higher in the draft than the late first round. This year is an exception because you have a guy like Hibbert that should have come out last year decreasing his value in the process while exposing himself as not having superstar potential, then you have guys like Jordan, Speights, and Ajinca that are coming out perhaps a year too early and will get drafted lower than they probably would have next season with another year of development.If you are gonna keep saying that the Sixers need to draft a PG if they acquire another pick then you need to man up and drop a name of a PG prospect that you are interested in so that we may laugh at your love for this prospect that probably wouldn't get drafted in the second round of most drafts. Come on, man up, drop a name.

[Johnny Broad-Street]

SendEm is way too combative....I see this thread spiraling into another long-winded blow hard arguement

[STChaser]

While the logic of the sixersfan is poor, I would rather have a PG than another big. We have Sammy, Evans, Booth, Smith, Hill, and Thad already to play the 4/5. I think adding 1 more guy is more than enough...

Sammy - legit 5 but easily overpowered by taller, heavier 4's and 5's.
Evans - legit backup 4; no offensive game often leads to playing 5 against 4 on offense.
Booth - no need to comment. A poor man's Sam. A placeholder.
Smith - plays smaller than his size. Decent midrange; foul prone; career backup 4 / 5.
Hill - no reason to believe he won't be out this season as well with another knee issue.
Thaddeus - a true 3 who can play spot minutes at the 4 depending upon the matchup.

So all in all, we have ONE true frontcourt player worthy of starting and even Sam gets victimized against the larger, heavier 4's and 5's like Bynum, Maxiell, Howard, Yao, etc. Booth should be gone. Smith is a backup 4 at best. Hill has proven unreliable to date. Evans is one dimensional but a nice piece coming off the bench.

Translation: We NEED a true PF who can rebound, defend, AND score, and we need a legitimate 5 to groom for our future and to come off the bench behind Sam. This 5 HAS to have some real size to him - someone in the Jordan / Hibbert mold.

STChaser

[dbodner]

Hill - no reason to believe he won't be out this season as well with another knee issue.

Isn't this quite a departure from where you were at the end of the season?

[jmon]

It's not as much matter of me being in love with the draft as it is me recognizing that the Sixers only have one NBA quality big in Sammy.
Evans, Smith, Hill, LOL and Booth are all GARBAGE!
I'm not going to read some article by some guy that's just going to confirm what I already know in how rare and coveted big men prospects are to the point that they NORMALLY get drafted much higher in the draft than the late first round. This year is an exception because you have a guy like Hibbert that should have come out last year decreasing his value in the process while exposing himself as not having superstar potential, then you have guys like Jordan, Speights, and Ajinca that are coming out perhaps a year too early and will get drafted lower than they probably would have next season with another year of development.If you are gonna keep saying that the Sixers need to draft a PG if they acquire another pick then you need to man up and drop a name of a PG prospect that you are interested in so that we may laugh at your love for this prospect that probably wouldn't get drafted in the second round of most drafts. Come on, man up, drop a name.

If you want a name, then Mario Chalmers. Good size. Good defense. Not much of a play maker, but could easily grow into an Eric Snow-like point guard with 3 point range. He seems like a pretty solid pick at 16. Nothing spectacular, but a good pick that can sure up the PG position when Miller moves on. We would still have tons of space next offseason and 2 first rounders(maybe 2). We would have a much better idea as to who the players on our team are as well, so we can make smart decisions with our cap space. "That deal just isn't flashy enough" says the impatient fan...

All the article does is look at history in an unbiased manner and shows the findings. It is, overall, very informative. It shows that teams selecting from 16-24 are twice as successful taking PGs than bigs. Plain and simple findings.

You made a call to looking at "history" and so I provided you with a link that looks at the history. Not sure why you are not going to read it. Seems odd to me.

All you are clinging to is the fact that this is the best PF/C class ever or something like that... which would be highly unlikely. I don't get it really.

But you will continue and then eventually resign from the topic claiming victory because it is ludicrous for me to claim that Speights in fact wouldn't have been a lottery pick last year or that Chalmers would have been off the board before 20 last year with his current resume...

[Johnny Broad-Street]

Like banging your head against a wall.....except that when you do that at least you get a natural high for a few seconds.

[dbodner]

All you are clinging to is the fact that this is the best PF/C class ever or something like that... which would be highly unlikely. I don't get it really.

I would have to agree that this is an exceptionally deep big man draft. With guys like Hickson, McGee, Jordan, etc all declaring early and remaining in the draft, when in all reality they probably shouldn't have, there is a lot of depth at that position. Rather than looking solely at history, I prefer to look at the prospects as well. Not all drafts are the same. All history does is show the average.

[jmon]

All you are clinging to is the fact that this is the best PF/C class ever or something like that... which would be highly unlikely. I don't get it really.

I would have to agree that this is an exceptionally deep big man draft. With guys like Hickson, McGee, Jordan, etc all declaring early and remaining in the draft, when in all reality they probably shouldn't have, there is a lot of depth at that position. Rather than looking solely at history, I prefer to look at the prospects as well. Not all drafts are the same. All history does is show the average.

Oh sure. I don't claim to just look at history. I say to look at history. He refused to look at history for some reason. You look at both obviously. I think this is an above average draft for PF/C prospects. I am sure I have pointed that out previously. I just think when your last 3 picks still on your team have played primarily PF in the NBA, you may not want to have tunnel vision for that specific position. There are also some very good guards/wings that will be available in this draft late like CDR and Lee.

[PhilasFinest]

id love to add another pick and nab Richard Hendrix...i think hes gonna be a very productive player in the paint and is exactly what we need in a 4.
Hibbert would be nice but i think he would have a stroke playing for us with the way we run.

[SendEm]

It's not as much matter of me being in love with the draft as it is me recognizing that the Sixers only have one NBA quality big in Sammy.
Evans, Smith, Hill, LOL and Booth are all GARBAGE!
I'm not going to read some article by some guy that's just going to confirm what I already know in how rare and coveted big men prospects are to the point that they NORMALLY get drafted much higher in the draft than the late first round. This year is an exception because you have a guy like Hibbert that should have come out last year decreasing his value in the process while exposing himself as not having superstar potential, then you have guys like Jordan, Speights, and Ajinca that are coming out perhaps a year too early and will get drafted lower than they probably would have next season with another year of development.If you are gonna keep saying that the Sixers need to draft a PG if they acquire another pick then you need to man up and drop a name of a PG prospect that you are interested in so that we may laugh at your love for this prospect that probably wouldn't get drafted in the second round of most drafts. Come on, man up, drop a name.

If you want a name, then Mario Chalmers. Good size. Good defense. Not much of a play maker, but could easily grow into an Eric Snow-like point guard with 3 point range. He seems like a pretty solid pick at 16. Nothing spectacular, but a good pick that can sure up the PG position when Miller moves on. We would still have tons of space next offseason and 2 first rounders(maybe 2). We would have a much better idea as to who the players on our team are as well, so we can make smart decisions with our cap space. "That deal just isn't flashy enough" says the impatient fan...

All the article does is look at history in an unbiased manner and shows the findings. It is, overall, very informative. It shows that teams selecting from 16-24 are twice as successful taking PGs than bigs. Plain and simple findings.

You made a call to looking at "history" and so I provided you with a link that looks at the history. Not sure why you are not going to read it. Seems odd to me.

All you are clinging to is the fact that this is the best PF/C class ever or something like that... which would be highly unlikely. I don't get it really.

But you will continue and then eventually resign from the topic claiming victory because it is ludicrous for me to claim that Speights in fact wouldn't have been a lottery pick last year or that Chalmers would have been off the board before 20 last year with his current resume...

Chalmers doesn't have a place on this team. He is the definition of how weak this draft class is in PG prospects. Do you realize how much better Lou Williams is than this guy? Are you drafting this guy to hold Lou's jock strap after Miller leaves or are you actually considering him to be able to compete for a starting position in 2 seasons?
I believe that in addition to keeping a historical perspective on the draft you also have to look at future drafts. The 2009 draft will be filled with PG prospects much unlike this years draft. And for it to appear that way so early only means good things because some players will play themselves into consideration out of nowhere, in addition to some that will play themselves out of consideration...Drafting a guy like Chalmers is like buying a brand new car in the last year that they made that body style. For the next few years you will be kicking yourself that you didn't wait for the new body style. Drafting one of the bigs late in this years draft is like buying a used car the first year after the body style was first released. Value.

[sixerswillrule]

It's not a bad idea. We could take Jordan or Speights at 16 then trade for a late 1st or early 2nd and take Hickson, Thompson, or Hendrix. But not if we have to give up much because it isn't really necessary, especially considering the fact that we'll be looking to sign a big man in FA. No point in trading Jason Smith for such a deal, either.

[jmon]

Chalmers is a better shooter than Lou, better defender, much higher basketball IQ and a proven winner. He is a good point guard prospect that would challenge Lou for the starting PG position AAM. His range would be the X factor since Iggy at the 2 kills the overall range of the team.

You address the PF position via free agency down the road. The Sixers cap space isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so just sit and wait and then pounce on a free agent PF or trade for one using your cap space to get it done.

At 16, you normally don't address your need for a post scorer. I must admit that this draft has a lot more physical specimens than any in previous years. I find it pretty hard to believe you are getting a top 10 quality player at 16 though. Not many of these fellows were productive in college though, so it is all just rolling the dice and hoping for a 7.

We will see how it pans out. I do like Speights a lot though. I don't understand how he isn't gone by 12 though.

[SendEm]

Chalmers is a better shooter than Lou, better defender, much higher basketball IQ and a proven winner. He is a good point guard prospect that would challenge Lou for the starting PG position AAM. His range would be the X factor since Iggy at the 2 kills the overall range of the team.

You address the PF position via free agency down the road. The Sixers cap space isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so just sit and wait and then pounce on a free agent PF or trade for one using your cap space to get it done.

At 16, you normally don't address your need for a post scorer. I must admit that this draft has a lot more physical specimens than any in previous years. I find it pretty hard to believe you are getting a top 10 quality player at 16 though. Not many of these fellows were productive in college though, so it is all just rolling the dice and hoping for a 7.

We will see how it pans out. I do like Speights a lot though. I don't understand how he isn't gone by 12 though.

If Lou Williams were in this very same draft he would surely be drafted ahead of Chalmers.
Lou would have dominated college basketball much like Beasley and Durant who were two players who had no business ever playing in college if not due to that silly age limit. Chalmers only averaged 12.8ppg and 4.3 assists in 30 minutes of COLLEGE BASKETBALL. Lou averaged 11.5ppg 3.2 assists in 23 minutes of NBA BASKETBALL. Chalmers is older than Lou Williams. The only thing that Chalmers could do is hold Lou's jock strap. Also Chalmers is not a PG, he just a PG prospect who people hope will develop some PG ability while in the NBA. If the Sixers want a short shooter at PG that's older than Lou Williams they are better off signing Pargo from the Hornets than drafting this guy Chalmers that may not even make it in the NBA let alone be better than Lou Williams who again is a younger player... The Sixers will be better off drafting someone 6'9"+ in this draft because that's where the value is to be found.

[jmon]

If Lou Williams were in this very same draft he would surely be drafted ahead of Chalmers.
Lou would have dominated college basketball much like Beasley and Durant who were two players who had no business ever playing in college if not due to that silly age limit. Chalmers only averaged 12.8ppg and 4.3 assists in 30 minutes of COLLEGE BASKETBALL. Lou averaged 11.5ppg 3.2 assists in 23 minutes of NBA BASKETBALL. Chalmers is older than Lou Williams. The only thing that Chalmers could do is hold Lou's jock strap. Also Chalmers is not a PG, he just a PG prospect who people hope will develop some PG ability while in the NBA. If the Sixers want a short shooter at PG that's older than Lou Williams they are better off signing Pargo from the Hornets than drafting this guy Chalmers that may not even make it in the NBA let alone be better than Lou Williams who again is a younger player... The Sixers will be better off drafting someone 6'9"+ in this draft because that's where the value is to be found.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said Chalmers would be drafted before Lou. I said he would challenge Lou for the starting point guard position. Lou never played in college. Chalmers has never played in the NBA. Your comparison makes little to no sense. Their roles on their teams were different as well. Chalmers has range from the PG position and makes good decisions. He would be a smart draft pick.

[SendEm]

If Lou Williams were in this very same draft he would surely be drafted ahead of Chalmers.
Lou would have dominated college basketball much like Beasley and Durant who were two players who had no business ever playing in college if not due to that silly age limit. Chalmers only averaged 12.8ppg and 4.3 assists in 30 minutes of COLLEGE BASKETBALL. Lou averaged 11.5ppg 3.2 assists in 23 minutes of NBA BASKETBALL. Chalmers is older than Lou Williams. The only thing that Chalmers could do is hold Lou's jock strap. Also Chalmers is not a PG, he just a PG prospect who people hope will develop some PG ability while in the NBA. If the Sixers want a short shooter at PG that's older than Lou Williams they are better off signing Pargo from the Hornets than drafting this guy Chalmers that may not even make it in the NBA let alone be better than Lou Williams who again is a younger player... The Sixers will be better off drafting someone 6'9"+ in this draft because that's where the value is to be found.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never said Chalmers would be drafted before Lou. I said he would challenge Lou for the starting point guard position. Lou never played in college. Chalmers has never played in the NBA. Your comparison makes little to no sense. Their roles on their teams were different as well. Chalmers has range from the PG position and makes good decisions. He would be a smart draft pick.

You didn't pick up on it, but that's okay. Lou Williams was TOO GOOD to have to play in college. I believe that Chalmers and Lou Williams were a part of the same high school class where Lou Williams was voted national High School player of the year, but I could be wrong. Lou Williams would have NEVER averaged only 12 points and 4 assist as a Junior in college.You make College and NBA basketball sound like two leagues with equal talent levels. If the talent levels were the same then we wouldn't have so many draft busts. I wouldn't touch a 22 year old combo guard like Chalmers in the first round that didn't dominate his competition in college. I'd rather sign a combo guard that ALREADY made it in the NBA like Pargo to be a backup instead of gambling to see if Chalmers can be a backup combo guard in the NBA. Yes Chalmers is a backup guard, he's not starting for any NBA team until he learns how to be a PG which very well may NEVER happen.