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Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs)

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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#901 » by Bum Adebayo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:30 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'm good with any big on the court, as long as they're hitting their free throws. Whether that be Harrell, Zubac or Baynes.

Good luck at another team attempting to close out a playoff series by running offense through a bigman in the modern era.


Yeah, good luck to the Sixers.
Seriously, there is no such thing as running offense and positions. If a player is good, it doesn't matter which position or if he is a bigman or not. The idea that running an offense through a bigman is worse is just a myth, it is all about how good a player is, nothing to do with bigman or guard.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#902 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 pm

It doesn't happen. Offenses are run though ball handlers. Not ancillary and dependent players like bigmen.

In the guts of a series deciding playoff game, Denver is not going to dump the ball to Jokic and let him isolate on Montrez Harrell. He'd get swarmed by help defenders and/or be forced into contested fga's. Nobody closes games with bigmen. It doesn't happen.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#903 » by Bum Adebayo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:25 pm

It doesn't matter that nobody does, if a bigman is good enough, then it can be done no problem. What happens is that there is the belief than you need to run the ofense through a guard, because it is what has been happening last few years, and going against the trends would be seen as an aberration obviously.
You run the offense through whichever player is the best in your team.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#904 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:31 pm

Then why was Manu Giboboli, and then Tony Parker, closing games for the Spurs on title runs when the great Tim Duncan was on the floor?

Why was Kobe closing games on title runs when the colossal Shaq was on the floor?

You don't run your offense through a non-ball handler. It's too easy to defend. That's why nobody does it.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#905 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:41 pm

Nobody said anything about your offense having to be run through a guard.

Ball handlers come in all shapes and sizes.

Kevin Durant is 6'11" and closes games.
Kawhi Leonard is 6'7" and closes games.
James Harden is 6'5" and closes games.
Kemba Walker is 6' and closes games.

As long as you are a skilled enough ball handler and agile enough to score off the dribble from multiple levels, you're capable of trying your hand at closing games. No bigman possesses these qualities.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#906 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:07 pm

Read on Twitter


Man, Ballmer just keep jabbing LeBron and the Lakers.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#907 » by Sixerscan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:39 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Then why was Manu Giboboli, and then Tony Parker, closing games for the Spurs on title runs when the great Tim Duncan was on the floor?

Why was Kobe closing games on title runs when the colossal Shaq was on the floor?

You don't run your offense through a non-ball handler. It's too easy to defend. That's why nobody does it.


I can think of tons of examples of Shaq or Duncan taking shots at the end of games, especially when they were being covered by their era's Aron Baynes or Ivica Zubac. You're acting like teams do the same thing every time down the court.

Centers also have a bunch of other responsibilities on defense beyond just covering post ups, plus there's a whole other end of the court.

This is the compartmentalization stuff all over again. It's easy to talk yourself into a role player when you act like you can make it so he only has to do one specific thing. The whole strategy of a playoff series is the other team trying to force a player into doing things he isn't good at. Lebron won't be able to shake Kawhi off every time but he will sometimes and if all it is is Zubac waiting for him the next level he's toast. You keep talking about the last 5 minutes which is important but you might not get to them if your centers were BBQ chicken for the first 43.

There's no need for the Clippers to have 11 guys. 6 of those guys aren't going to be on the court at the end of a close playoff game, and 3-4 of them probably won't play in the game at all. Maybe it makes sense for a long regular season but I expect them to consolidate by the deadline to fix some of their issues.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#908 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:45 pm

Montrez Harrell was a defensive stud last year. Zubac was an excellent rim protector last year. Kabengele projects extraordinarily on the defensive end.

It just feels like you're inventing a need, to me.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#909 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:51 pm





Andrew Bogut and Kevon Looney were shook.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#910 » by Sixerscan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:57 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Montrez Harrell was a defensive stud last year. Zubac was an excellent rim protector last year. Kabengele projects extraordinarily on the defensive end.

It just feels like you're inventing a need, to me.


Zubac was so excellent that Rivers had to bench him in the Warriors series.

Those guys are fine. They're certainly in the mix to win a title regardless, just saying that it's a spot that can be upgraded, they have the assets to upgrade it, and more capable players than playoff rotation spots, so why not upgrade it and improve your chances of winning a title?

Do you disagree and just think that health permitting they are a lock to win the title already?
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#911 » by Sixerscan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:00 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Andrew Bogut and Kevon Looney were shook.


I think Harrell (or Zubac) is very good as a backup center going against other backup centers like Bogut and Looney, but could use a starter in front of one of them.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#912 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:27 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Zubac was so excellent that Rivers had to bench him in the Warriors series.


We've seen quality bigs rendered less effective in playoff series against smallball lineups in recent years. Isn't that a completely separate conversation, though? I thought we were talking about the Clippers bigs being good enough to deal with the bigs of opposing teams.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#913 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 pm

Sixerscan wrote:I think Harrell (or Zubac) is very good as a backup center going against other backup centers like Bogut and Looney, but could use a starter in front of one of them.

I don't think you can afford to take Harrell off the court, at this point. He's becoming a 28-32 minute player. He's unguardable in the pick and roll, he can beast in the post, he can defend in space, he can defend the rim.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#914 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Those guys are fine. They're certainly in the mix to win a title regardless, just saying that it's a spot that can be upgraded, they have the assets to upgrade it, and more capable players than playoff rotation spots, so why not upgrade it and improve your chances of winning a title?

Do you disagree and just think that health permitting they are a lock to win the title already?

I think the Clippers are going to give new meaning to the term "load management" this year. They're going to need to preserve their depth to allow them to rack up wins during the regular season.

Also, starter ahead of Harrell? Who's good enough to be an actual upgrade over him? Maybe Jonas Valanciunas. Maybe Myles Turner if Indiana would rather go with Sabonis, going forward. I don't really see any other guys worth trading for that will be a better option than just rolling with Harrell for 28-32 minutes a night.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#915 » by Sixerscan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:58 pm

They could use someone better than Zubac that can be a big body and rim protect. Harrell isn't big enough for a lot of matchups, and you clearly have a higher opinion on him than I do.

Marc Gasol would be great, not sure how they get him. As I said yesterday I think upgrading the guard spot is more realistic for them.

Like the Raptors, I imagine that they will eventually realize that while depth is great during the regular season they will need to consolidate around the deadline.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#916 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:24 pm

Apparently, I have a much higher opinion of Zubac, as well. I don't know what more you could want out of a 22 year old big. He's shown incredible scoring production, rebounding, and rim protection. He can even hit free throws. Maybe he's a little stiff while defending in space and is about 10 pounds of muscle away from being stout in the post, but that's about all I see that he leaves to be desired. His future is very optimistic and he's an excellent backup big, in the meantime.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#917 » by LloydFree » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:37 pm

Zubac isn't anything and he won't even get 15 minutes in a playoff game if the Clippers plan on winning something this year. And Harrell is borderline useless in any game against Anthony Davis or Embiid. The Clippers will trade for Gasol or at worst, Adams, at the deadline. There is no GM in the league, competing for a title, that would go into a playoff intending to play Montezl Harrell 30 minutes per game.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#918 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:43 pm

Steven Adams has been playoff trash his whole career and is on an albatross contract.

Marc Gasol is a declining player on an expensive expiring contract. It would be pretty shortsighted to burn through their depth in an attempt to salary match a trade for him.
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#919 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:49 pm

LloydFree wrote:And Harrell is borderline useless in any game against Anthony Davis


Anthony Davis has refused to play C his whole career and already spoke out against playing C for the Lakers.

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/7/13/20693254/lakers-anthony-davis-doesnt-want-play-center-rob-pelinka-introduction-stats-lebron-james-star-power

Harrell would be defending the corpse of Boogie Cousins or JaVale McGee in any series against the Lakers. You really think the Clippers are sweating that?
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Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#920 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:02 pm

We just saw Kawhi take the 6'11" 250 pound Giannis out of his game in a playoff series. He'll easily do the same thing to Anthony Davis. He's guarded him plenty in the past.

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