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Welcome Al Horford(?!?)

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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#301 » by 51X3RF4N » Thu May 21, 2020 2:45 pm

So what do we think is the starting lineup heading into a possible season re-opening?

Does Brett stick with Horford on the bench now that everyone is back healthy? Does Shake continue to start or does he go back to the bench in favor of Korkmaz or Matisse??
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#302 » by XtremeDunkz » Thu May 21, 2020 2:49 pm

The Tobias Harris slander continues to be ridiculous. Anyone who says they would get rid of him over Horford is a certified clown.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#303 » by 76ciology » Fri May 22, 2020 5:08 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#304 » by 76ciology » Fri May 22, 2020 5:09 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:So what do we think is the starting lineup heading into a possible season re-opening?

Does Brett stick with Horford on the bench now that everyone is back healthy? Does Shake continue to start or does he go back to the bench in favor of Korkmaz or Matisse??


They’ll used what they’re most comfortable with and not do any experiments.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#305 » by youngcrev » Sat May 23, 2020 4:54 pm

76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter


I feel like you've been arguing against this for months with people telling you the same exact thing, but some random person posts those stats on twitter and you're on board all of a sudden?
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#306 » by Arsenal » Sat May 23, 2020 5:46 pm

He got to go. And so does whatever moron was responsible for handing him $110M.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#307 » by 76ciology » Sat May 23, 2020 6:26 pm

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter


I feel like you've been arguing against this for months with people telling you the same exact thing, but some random person posts those stats on twitter and you're on board all of a sudden?


My point is not to tear them apart.

My point is we can have a very good 5 man unit for 48 mins because of Al.

Starting unit with Al has +8 NetRtg.

While there are a handful of 5 man units with heavy mins and good NetRtg with Al and Ben and without biid.

While a 5 man unit with Ben and Biid, without Al, can POSSIBLY be our killer 5 man unit to close out games.

That is better than having to fly then fall depending on when Biid is on the floor or not, just like the last two seasons

And that is just in general regular season basketball.

While in the playoffs having Al, Ben and Biid allows us to match-up with the twin tower frontcourt of Raps, Bucks and Lakers.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#308 » by youngcrev » Sat May 23, 2020 7:17 pm

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter


I feel like you've been arguing against this for months with people telling you the same exact thing, but some random person posts those stats on twitter and you're on board all of a sudden?


My point is not to tear them apart.

My point is we can have a very good 5 man unit for 48 mins because of Al.

Starting unit with Al has +8 NetRtg.

While there are a handful of 5 man units with heavy mins and good NetRtg with Al and Ben and without biid.

While a 5 man unit with Ben and Biid, without Al, can POSSIBLY be our killer 5 man unit to close out games.

That is better than having to fly then fall depending on when Biid is on the floor or not, just like the last two seasons

And that is just in general regular season basketball.

While in the playoffs having Al, Ben and Biid allows us to match-up with the twin tower frontcourt of Raps, Bucks and Lakers.


Horford is a useful player, but with limited resources, spending that much on a guy that is a poor fit with your best player is unwise, particularly when the team has such a playmaking hole (whether that be an off the bounce guy or someone that can effectively run two man game off of Jo/Ben like JJ did).

If the argument is simply that having him is more helpful than not having him, sure. But that's not factoring in the opportunity cost.

The offense has tanked with Horford on the floor with our 2 best players, so while he may help you match up better defensively, you've still got to score on the other end for it to matter.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#309 » by Sixerscan » Sat May 23, 2020 8:32 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:So what do we think is the starting lineup heading into a possible season re-opening?

Does Brett stick with Horford on the bench now that everyone is back healthy? Does Shake continue to start or does he go back to the bench in favor of Korkmaz or Matisse??


Assuming they're playing the Celtics I think they'll bring Horford off the bench. Could easily see them go back to him starting against the Raptors or Bucks though.

Not sure who the 5th starter would be, Shake got exposed defensively pretty bad in that one game in Boston, then again Josh didn't play. Might be Robinson?
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#310 » by 76ciology » Sun May 24, 2020 6:13 am

Spoiler:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
I feel like you've been arguing against this for months with people telling you the same exact thing, but some random person posts those stats on twitter and you're on board all of a sudden?


My point is not to tear them apart.

My point is we can have a very good 5 man unit for 48 mins because of Al.

Starting unit with Al has +8 NetRtg.

While there are a handful of 5 man units with heavy mins and good NetRtg with Al and Ben and without biid.

While a 5 man unit with Ben and Biid, without Al, can POSSIBLY be our killer 5 man unit to close out games.

That is better than having to fly then fall depending on when Biid is on the floor or not, just like the last two seasons

And that is just in general regular season basketball.

While in the playoffs having Al, Ben and Biid allows us to match-up with the twin tower frontcourt of Raps, Bucks and Lakers.


Horford is a useful player, but with limited resources, spending that much on a guy that is a poor fit with your best player is unwise, particularly when the team has such a playmaking hole (whether that be an off the bounce guy or someone that can effectively run two man game off of Jo/Ben like JJ did).

If the argument is simply that having him is more helpful than not having him, sure. But that's not factoring in the opportunity cost.

The offense has tanked with Horford on the floor with our 2 best players, so while he may help you match up better defensively, you've still got to score on the other end for it to matter.


You have a different opinion than mine.

But for me, the biggest issues on our team are how poorly our 5 man unit was without Biid, matching up with the giant PFs of the teams we have to beat in 7 games to win the championship and maximizing Ben. All that was solved with Horford.

Sure I’d like to have Kawhi or LeBron with that money, but it has been proven that these caliber of FAs just uses us for leverage to get them to teams at LA.

And sure Jimmy, JJ or Brogdon would surely help on offense but they have bigger drawbacks on my “biggest issues on our team”. And quite frankly, they aren’t good enough to make impact on offense on the biggest stage. It’s not like Brogdon, JJ and Jimmy are on the same level of a Harden that can carry our offense when we need them to.

In the playoffs, defense can easily deny that JJ-Biid DHO. Butler is not that good of an ISO or PnR player and not a good ISO defender.

Our best chance is to have the better 5 man unit against our opponent for the full 48, deny their edge in match-ups then promote growth for Ben and Tobias.

Externally, we hear the criticism of Brett stunting Ben’s growth. Biid has grown from his rookie year. It’s time for Ben (And Tobias) to grow and we’ve seen both become a much better player with our roster this year.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#311 » by 76ciology » Sun May 24, 2020 6:32 am

In the play-offs you hunt or generate mismatches.

Where’s our edge in the match-up against the Raptors or the Celtics?

Having a giant 5 man unit is our way of hunting/generating the mismatch by running the PnR, since none of our guys are that good to run the PnR.

And this squad with Al, almost guarantees you to have the upper hand in match-ups in the playoffs.

And if a big line-up doesn’t work, then you can sit him and play a guy like Milton, Thybulle, Korkmaz or Burks to replace him. I mean.. Ben and Biid without Al is supposed to be godlike this season (without JJ and Jimmy also) right?
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#312 » by Kobblehead » Thu May 28, 2020 3:18 pm

When has Horford ever shown himself to be a guy to take advantage of mismatches, though? Marcus Smart criticized him for taking threes with 6'4" guys on him. It's just not in his nature to turn on the aggression and punish smaller defenders. We signed the wrong guy if we wanted to play bullyball in the playoffs.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#313 » by 76ciology » Thu May 28, 2020 4:25 pm

Kobblehead wrote:When has Horford ever shown himself to be a guy to take advantage of mismatches, though? Marcus Smart criticized him for taking threes with 6'4" guys on him. It's just not in his nature to turn on the aggression and punish smaller defenders. We signed the wrong guy if we wanted to play bullyball in the playoffs.




My point is he can attack mismatches. He also attacked Roco in the playoffs if i can recall correctly.

Al is more of the guy who’s going to generate mismatches for Biid, Ben and Tobias. He can either force the defense to put their PF on Biid or put their SG on either Ben or Tobias.

Space the floor for Biid and Ben, if they share the court. While He and Biid can guard big PFs or centers When they share the court together.

Then most importantly, give us a plus NetRtg 5 man unit without Biid. This allow us to have a plus NetRtg 5 man unit for the full 48.

If our team is underperforming, don’t look at Al. Look at ben and biid. It’s mostly Biid fault this season. We all know there’s something wrong with him. Our board’s insider point this one out months ago.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#314 » by youngcrev » Thu May 28, 2020 5:19 pm

Is Tobias against a SG that much of a mismatch given that he's mostly a finesse player? Particularly when you can cheat off of other guys due to the poor spacing.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#315 » by 76ciology » Thu May 28, 2020 5:53 pm

youngcrev wrote:Is Tobias against a SG that much of a mismatch given that he's mostly a finesse player? Particularly when you can cheat off of other guys due to the poor spacing.


He seems to be posting up more. I even find him to be using his knee/legs more to create space

There was a game or 2 where he made a go ahead basket to win a game for us after he was being defended by a SG. Will try to find the clip for you.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#316 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 29, 2020 12:31 am

Kinda amusing that the first play in that clip, Al has 215 pound Bogdanovic on him and the first thing he does is turn his back and look for a guy to dribble handoff to (resulting in a turnover).
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#317 » by 76ciology » Fri May 29, 2020 7:23 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Kinda amusing that the first play in that clip, Al has 215 pound Bogdanovic on him and the first thing he does is turn his back and look for a guy to dribble handoff to (resulting in a turnover).


He also has some hookshot that end up being airballs hahaha

He’s not that good (no one is saying he is) but he can attack mismatches and defense respects his ability to score off it.

Then again, the point of Al is not for Al to attack mismatch. But for Al to create mismatch advantage either for Biid and/or for Tobi or Ben.
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