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8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers

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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#361 » by eyeatoma » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:52 am

Da ThRONe wrote:Milton/Neto combine 40 mins 1-4 fg, 0-2 3pt, 2 pts, 6 ast, 3 to. Burke with the Mavs 30mins 11-16 fg, 8-10 3pt, 31 pts 6 ast, 0 to.

Why did they cut Trey again?
Pisses me off to no end why we didn't use Burke like he's supposed to be utilized.

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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#362 » by phifans » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:07 am

eyeatoma wrote:
phifans wrote:I recommended you guys to find out how Pacers got TJ Warren last summer and then how we got Harris and you will get the final answer for everything.
Problem if if we had Warren he would be neutered by Brett again. Same ****.

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Yeah first our FO don't know how to build team with talents then our coach don't know how to use and exploit them.

Such an excellent situation we've been here !
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#363 » by eyeatoma » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:23 am

phifans wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
phifans wrote:I recommended you guys to find out how Pacers got TJ Warren last summer and then how we got Harris and you will get the final answer for everything.
Problem if if we had Warren he would be neutered by Brett again. Same ****.

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Yeah first our FO don't know how to build team with talents then our coach don't know how to use and exploit them.

Such an excellent situation we've been here !
It's so depressing.

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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#364 » by eyeatoma » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:24 am

phifans wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
phifans wrote:I recommended you guys to find out how Pacers got TJ Warren last summer and then how we got Harris and you will get the final answer for everything.
Problem if if we had Warren he would be neutered by Brett again. Same ****.

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Yeah first our FO don't know how to build team with talents then our coach don't know how to use and exploit them.

Such an excellent situation we've been here !
Meanwhile Kawhi leaves Toronto and they don't miss a beat. Great coaching and farm system. Ujiri is also so good.

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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#365 » by bball4life » Sun Aug 2, 2020 5:19 am

The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get. With crippled Oladipo, foul trouble Miles and missing Sabonis and Brogdon, TJ Warren was literally the ONLY player who could score for them. Yet our dumbass coach just let him do it. No adjustments, no trapping, no double teams. Just rolled over and took it up the backside.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#366 » by cej11 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 5:20 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Da ThRONe wrote:Milton/Neto combine 40 mins 1-4 fg, 0-2 3pt, 2 pts, 6 ast, 3 to. Burke with the Mavs 30mins 11-16 fg, 8-10 3pt, 31 pts 6 ast, 0 to.

Why did they cut Trey again?
Pisses me off to no end why we didn't use Burke like he's supposed to be utilized.

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Well, Brett said he didn't want Neto rotting on the bench. Even though Burke was clearly out playing him when he got minutes.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#367 » by djsunyc » Sun Aug 2, 2020 6:10 am

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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#368 » by M2J » Sun Aug 2, 2020 6:32 am

My key observations are regarding the offense. Nothing changes with the defense. Talented defenders, but not enough changes when the system isn't working like today. Get the ball out of the scrubs hands! I also understand the idea that one person going off shouldn't be enough. But it sure makes it a lot easier for them to beat you, when your offense has flaws, like poor shooting or in tonight's case... Turnovers

Offensively, I do think it was clear that the shift had some benefits. The court was better spaced, and opened up the paint for pretty much everyone that scores inside. 3pt shooting wasn't bad either. What sucked were the turnovers, which are possibly due to the lack of cohesion. The entry passes were a problem for that simple pass to the midpost for Ben to initiate the offense. They have to find a counter to over aggressiveness on that pass. Things like feints of a shot, drive, or pass in a different direction before the pass, or utilizing it as a decoy for other action. The back court, could also drive right past it. They also just need to get better at the pass.

Another adjustment, needed to be just putting the ball in Ben's hands. Take advantage of the extra shooter on the court... Let Benjamin make decisions, and try to drive.

Run more pick and roll, with him as the roll man. Maybe with Tobi as the handler. Lots of options, many of which have been alluded to by BB, that weren't attempted much, if at all.

But, again regarding the line up change. Overall Joel, Ben, and Tobi did some nice things. Specifically Joel. But, I do like seeing Tobias playing aggressively. Like it or not, he's the only player on the team that really is capable of getting a relatively quality look in his own. He wasn't crazy efficient, but not bad, and he needs to feel comfortable doing that.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#369 » by eyeatoma » Sun Aug 2, 2020 6:46 am

M2J wrote:My key observations are regarding the offense. Nothing changes with the defense. Talented defenders, but not enough changes when the system isn't working like today. Get the ball out of the scrubs hands! I also understand the idea that one person going off shouldn't be enough. But it sure makes it a lot easier for them to beat you, when your offense has flaws, like poor shooting or in tonight's case... Turnovers

Offensively, I do think it was clear that the shift had some benefits. The court was better spaced, and opened up the paint for pretty much everyone that scores inside. 3pt shooting wasn't bad either. What sucked were the turnovers, which are possibly due to the lack of cohesion. The entry passes were a problem for that simple pass to the midpost for Ben to initiate the offense. They have to find a counter to over aggressiveness on that pass. Things like feints of a shot, drive, or pass in a different direction before the pass, or utilizing it as a decoy for other action. The back court, could also drive right past it. They also just need to get better at the pass.

Another adjustment, needed to be just putting the ball in Ben's hands. Take advantage of the extra shooter on the court... Let Benjamin make decisions, and try to drive.

Run more pick and roll, with him as the roll man. Maybe with Tobi as the handler. Lots of options, many of which have been alluded to by BB, that weren't attempted much, if at all.

But, again regarding the line up change. Overall Joel, Ben, and Tobi did some nice things. Specifically Joel. But, I do like seeing Tobias playing aggressively. Like it or not, he's the only player on the team that really is capable of getting a relatively quality look in his own. He wasn't crazy efficient, but not bad, and he needs to feel comfortable doing that.


Despite all the improvements there are too many things that never change. Brett can not stop a run. His rotations are horrible. He has a penchant for using smaller guards, and our defense is abymsal in drop coverages. We also can't seem to be able to make a simple entry pass. Some of this is on the players, some on the coach, but at this point it is what it is. We might get lucky and make it to the 2nd round, but better teams will begin to expose us.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#370 » by 76ciology » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:01 am

ankle420breaker wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
You were obviously watching a different game. He kept getting cooked on the PNR.


Looked a hell of a lot better than that guy we've been pinning our hopes on.

Zero points, 3 turnovers, 5 fouls in 19 minutes for Shake. Got embarrassed by TJ and almost got into a fight with Joel on the sidelines... Yay.

Can't give up on him, but man, that was summer league Shake all over again.
Agreed Shake was garbage, but Burks should have been next man up over Neto. This shouldn't be debatable.

If Neto is going to play serious minutes on this roster its just over. I mean, its done. Neto can't be finishing games. We didn't go to hell and back through the process and max out our payroll for the foreseeable future to have Raul **** Neto be one of the five guys you rely on to close out meaningful games.

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Agree.

If there’s any big holes that weren’t filled, it’s Milton and Ben’s defense. Regarding Ben’s defense its because I expect more from him on D.

TJ warren dropping 53 on a first defensive team member?

Those last 2 3s by TJ were gambles by Ben that didn’t went his way
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#371 » by 76ciology » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:16 am

what do you think about the calls?

I find this game has some seriously weird calls. Specially against Milton.

If you are going to rewatch the game, look at our guys face after a call against them it’s like they were told not to make any complains.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#372 » by Nuntius » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:39 am

bball4life wrote:The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get. With crippled Oladipo, foul trouble Miles and missing Sabonis and Brogdon, TJ Warren was literally the ONLY player who could score for them. Yet our dumbass coach just let him do it. No adjustments, no trapping, no double teams. Just rolled over and took it up the backside.


We also lost Jeremy Lamb to an ACL injury back in late February. Honestly, I'm really surprised that we won this game. I would be happy if we simply kept it close but TJ Warren had other plans.

Look, I know that it really isn't my place to talk about your team but after reading your game thread, here are my two cents:

On Brett Brown: He is definitely not a good coach. Not everything should be blamed on him but he has definitely committed enough mistakes to earn the ire of your fanbase.

On playing Raul Neto down the stretch: Honestly, I kind of understand this one. Turnovers were a major problem for the Sixers in this game. I'd say that turnovers were the second biggest reason why we won the game (TJ Warren being the biggest reason, of course). Raul Neto played 21 minutes and didn't turn the ball over once. There is some value on that. Now, it is definitely true that Alec Burks felt more dangerous to me as a Pacer fan since he was shooting great from 3. But he also turned the ball over 4 times in 12 minutes. That's really, really bad. Going for Neto over Burks (or Milton who also turned the ball over 3 times) was an understandable decision. I do believe that going with Thybulle and having Simmons or Richardson be the main ball-handlers would be a much better decision but as I said before, Brett Brown is not a good coach.

On Horford: The -26 plus/minus is definitely misleading. Horford wasn't that bad and he was definitely not the reason why the Sixers lost. That said, he wasn't very impactful either. I never felt like Horford was a big threat for us in this game. He basically did what a role player is supposed to do. Came in for 20ish minutes, scored a bit, grabbed a few boards, made a couple of nice passes. The problem is that he isn't paid like a role player. He is paid like a player that's supposed to have a much bigger role on the team and, unfortunately, due to the construction of your roster, he isn't in a position to play that role. Perhaps he'll produce more as the time goes on. This hiatus was probably hard for a veteran like him so it could all be attributed to that.

On your team not running the PnR enough: Part of that is your roster construction, in my opinion. Embiid is an incredibly dominant post player. You can't really run the PnR when the big is posting up and Embiid posting up will almost always be a good play for the Sixers. The fact that Ben Simmons is not a willing 3-point shooters limits your spacing as well when running PnRs. Utilizing Ben Simmons as the PnR roll-man is a very intriguing idea that could potentially work but that would mean that Embiid would have to play the role of the floor-spacer. Embiid can definitely shoot the 3 but he's far more potent as an inside scorer. That's probably why you aren't running a ton of PnRs. It doesn't quite fit the play style of your star players.

On your team's roster construction: Your team definitely has a lot of talent on its roster but that talent isn't well-balanced. I believe that this is what VDT was alluding to in his post in the previous page. Let's start with your two stars. Their hot spots overlap. They are both at their best when they're taking shots right at the rim. That's not the only issue, though. The other issue, though, is that neither of the two can be the go-to perimeter guy that can both create with their ball in their hands out in the perimeter and make perimeter shots off the dribble if needed. Ben Simmons can definitely create with the ball in his hands but he won't shoot 3s. Joel Embiid can definitely shoot 3s but creating with the ball in his hands is not something that you ask out of your 7ft, 280 lbs Center. This problem extends to the rest of your starters as well. Tobias Harris can shoot from the perimeter and he can definitely create for himself off the dribble but he can't create for others. Horford, like Embiid, can shoot the 3 but he is a big and he shouldn't have main ball-handling duties. Josh Richardson could potentially be that guy for your team but he definitely wasn't that player today.

Basically, here's the main flaw on your roster. You need a main ball-handler that is a threat both to create for others and make perimeter shots. That player doesn't necessarily need to be a star but he does need to be a consistent performer for you. Without that player, the fit is simply off and no coach can fix that (unless you go for a triangle offensive scheme like it was suggested? I don't know, I'm not sure but it's a possibility).

Anyway, here are my two cents. I want to make clear that the intent of this post isn't to insult anyone here or to rub tonight's result in. I also want to make clear that I'm not claiming to be an experts on the Sixers. I am 100% sure that you know your team better than I do. These are just the observations of someone who watched tonight's game and read your game thread. That's all.

Peace :D
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#373 » by snoopdogg88 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:55 am

Team Chill’s argument is pretty much a mixture of one game (CHRISTMAS!!) and the fantasy land where the Sixers are just waiting to turn it on, or magically constructed for the playoffs.

There’s almost an entire season of data here, and it says what it says: the Sixers are an okay team. They’re literally the sixth best team in their own conference, not counting the teams in the West. I think it’s fair to ask if we’re better than the Pacers or if the Mavericks are better than us, but we’re pretty clearly the 11th-13th best team in the NBA. It’s reasonable to assume the Sixers will either lose in the first round or the second round, and aren’t a particularly good team. They’re certainly not a title contender.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#374 » by eyeatoma » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:35 am

Nuntius wrote:
bball4life wrote:The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get. With crippled Oladipo, foul trouble Miles and missing Sabonis and Brogdon, TJ Warren was literally the ONLY player who could score for them. Yet our dumbass coach just let him do it. No adjustments, no trapping, no double teams. Just rolled over and took it up the backside.


We also lost Jeremy Lamb to an ACL injury back in late February. Honestly, I'm really surprised that we won this game. I would be happy if we simply kept it close but TJ Warren had other plans.

Look, I know that it really isn't my place to talk about your team but after reading your game thread, here are my two cents:

On Brett Brown: He is definitely not a good coach. Not everything should be blamed on him but he has definitely committed enough mistakes to earn the ire of your fanbase.

On playing Raul Neto down the stretch: Honestly, I kind of understand this one. Turnovers were a major problem for the Sixers in this game. I'd say that turnovers were the second biggest reason why we won the game (TJ Warren being the biggest reason, of course). Raul Neto played 21 minutes and didn't turn the ball over once. There is some value on that. Now, it is definitely true that Alec Burks felt more dangerous to me as a Pacer fan since he was shooting great from 3. But he also turned the ball over 4 times in 12 minutes. That's really, really bad. Going for Neto over Burks (or Milton who also turned the ball over 3 times) was an understandable decision. I do believe that going with Thybulle and having Simmons or Richardson be the main ball-handlers would be a much better decision but as I said before, Brett Brown is not a good coach.

On Horford: The -26 plus/minus is definitely misleading. Horford wasn't that bad and he was definitely not the reason why the Sixers lost. That said, he wasn't very impactful either. I never felt like Horford was a big threat for us in this game. He basically did what a role player is supposed to do. Came in for 20ish minutes, scored a bit, grabbed a few boards, made a couple of nice passes. The problem is that he isn't paid like a role player. He is paid like a player that's supposed to have a much bigger role on the team and, unfortunately, due to the construction of your roster, he isn't in a position to play that role. Perhaps he'll produce more as the time goes on. This hiatus was probably hard for a veteran like him so it could all be attributed to that.

On your team not running the PnR enough: Part of that is your roster construction, in my opinion. Embiid is an incredibly dominant post player. You can't really run the PnR when the big is posting up and Embiid posting up will almost always be a good play for the Sixers. The fact that Ben Simmons is not a willing 3-point shooters limits your spacing as well when running PnRs. Utilizing Ben Simmons as the PnR roll-man is a very intriguing idea that could potentially work but that would mean that Embiid would have to play the role of the floor-spacer. Embiid can definitely shoot the 3 but he's far more potent as an inside scorer. That's probably why you aren't running a ton of PnRs. It doesn't quite fit the play style of your star players.

On your team's roster construction: Your team definitely has a lot of talent on its roster but that talent isn't well-balanced. I believe that this is what VDT was alluding to in his post in the previous page. Let's start with your two stars. Their hot spots overlap. They are both at their best when they're taking shots right at the rim. That's not the only issue, though. The other issue, though, is that neither of the two can be the go-to perimeter guy that can both create with their ball in their hands out in the perimeter and make perimeter shots off the dribble if needed. Ben Simmons can definitely create with the ball in his hands but he won't shoot 3s. Joel Embiid can definitely shoot 3s but creating with the ball in his hands is not something that you ask out of your 7ft, 280 lbs Center. This problem extends to the rest of your starters as well. Tobias Harris can shoot from the perimeter and he can definitely create for himself off the dribble but he can't create for others. Horford, like Embiid, can shoot the 3 but he is a big and he shouldn't have main ball-handling duties. Josh Richardson could potentially be that guy for your team but he definitely wasn't that player today.

Basically, here's the main flaw on your roster. You need a main ball-handler that is a threat both to create for others and make perimeter shots. That player doesn't necessarily need to be a star but he does need to be a consistent performer for you. Without that player, the fit is simply off and no coach can fix that (unless you go for a triangle offensive scheme like it was suggested? I don't know, I'm not sure but it's a possibility).

Anyway, here are my two cents. I want to make clear that the intent of this post isn't to insult anyone here or to rub tonight's result in. I also want to make clear that I'm not claiming to be an experts on the Sixers. I am 100% sure that you know your team better than I do. These are just the observations of someone who watched tonight's game and read your game thread. That's all.

Peace :D
A good summary of our problems. This is something that we're all pretty aware of as well. Team needs some changes this summer. Brown being the first.

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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#375 » by Kova » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:47 am

We have too many rotations in a single game. That's why we are so inconsistent, and unable to pull away with a lead. Up 7, down 5, up 3, down 10, up 9, down 8, etc.. Keep the rotations consistent for 3 games in a row so the guys know their roles what they're supposed to do on the court.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#376 » by Lou_23 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:50 am

Horford -26, Embiid +21

:lol:
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#377 » by BigSleep333 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 9:15 am

Lou_23 wrote:Horford -26, Embiid +21

:lol:


it feels like those +/- dropoff when embiid sits will never stop. :nonono:

how is it even possible that embiid is the only starter with a positive +/- ? you gotta think everyone else but embiid sucks baad (and tbh, i would trade everybody but embiid in the offseason if we cant magically surprise in the PO...like someone already said in this thread, its a massive waste of a career otherwise)
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#378 » by oldshoolballer » Sun Aug 2, 2020 9:45 am

Brett Brown's gotta go The Sixers may get taken out in the first round
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#379 » by VDT » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:05 am

Black Mage wrote:
VDT wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Sixers have already tried changing the players and the same problems persist. The only constant to explain why for 3 years we have the same problems is the coach.

It's a joke that TJ McConnell knew what plays we were going to run and calling them out before we even got into the set and he hasn't been on the team for a year. That proves Brett NEVER changes his offensive schemes (which suck) regardless of his personnel.



The Sixers lack a creator from the perimeter and when Embiid is off they lack a first option. They never really attempted to build around anyone and the ill fitting rosters reflect that. To be honest though, it is hard to make a roster with Embiid And Simmons fit. You need players that are willing and good three point shooters that are mostly positive defenders and you need at least a very good /excellent perimeter creator that can also shoot which is the hardest thing to get in the nba. You need basically what every team in the nba wants, 3+d players and a perimeter star, which makes it even harder to acquire them.

All these are hard to achieve and they will likely required some hard choices first. Which is why i dont think the Sixers coaching position will be that popular (other than some have beens that would take any position available). It is very easy to underperform and very hard to beat the expectations.


Just stop. He REFUSES to run PNR no matter who he has. He had Jimmy Butler who is an amazing PNR player and he fought against using that play.

::EDIT:: was it our roster that forced Brett to run Neto who had been on the outs in the scrimmages instead of running with Burks who had played more? Was that a roster issue?


That's wrong though. They run some pnr but Embiid is a bad screener, he is not really a rim runner and we dont have a pnr ballhandler. In any case pnr is not the end all be all system. The team needs someone that can create from the perimeter and needs a system. The problem is that roster changes would need to happen before that. The Sixers never built their team around a specific player, with a specific play style in mind, and a roster that supports that. That's understandable but it puts a limit on the team, particularly since certain players did not have the development we expected.

About the roleplayers, i find it funny that people pick a random league minimum guy to blame for the loss. You have already lost if you depend on them. To me Neto should be benched because he did not shoot the 3 a couple of times that he was open. But complaining all the time about some roleplayer doesnt make sense imo. Even if Brown had played Burks more and Sixers lost, people would complain about that also. These players are paid so few money because most of the times they will be bad, especially if you expect a lot from them.


Brown may not have the answers but clearly the problem is not that of picking the correct roleplayer, which changes every few days based on this board anyway.
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Re: 8/1 7PM - Sixers vs. Pacers 

Post#380 » by VDT » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:07 am

BigSleep333 wrote:
Lou_23 wrote:Horford -26, Embiid +21

:lol:


it feels like those +/- dropoff when embiid sits will never stop. :nonono:

how is it even possible that embiid is the only starter with a positive +/- ? you gotta think everyone else but embiid sucks baad (and tbh, i would trade everybody but embiid in the offseason if we cant magically surprise in the PO...like someone already said in this thread, its a massive waste of a career otherwise)



Embiid was the only one that could create a reasonably efficient offense and the only one that provide some rim protection. That's the reason for the big discrepancy in the - +.

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