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Offseason plan : Fixing this mess

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1181 » by Gulfwang » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:01 am

the_process wrote:Cohen, Rucker, and O'Neil all should be gone, whether or not they actually have any say or not. It really does seem like all they did was shuffle deck chairs.


I really don't understand why Rucker and Cohen are the fall guys everyone wants fired, yes they both are Colangelo's hires, but so is Elton Brand. Rucker worked for Masai in Toronto and Ned Cohen worked for the NBA (and I remember Zach Lowe mentioning him as a potential future GM). To me that sounds like average front office personnel.

IMO most, if not all of the blame should be on Harris and O'Neil. If Rucker and Cohen were actually the ones behind all the moves, the blame should be on people that empowered them. I find it hard to believe that Harris allowed Rucker to be some kind of a mastermind that pulled all the strings in Sixers organization. My guess is Harris made all the big moves(like most of bad owners do) and doesn't want to fire 2 dudes who just listened to their boss.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1182 » by kriss73 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:40 pm

Gulfwang wrote:
the_process wrote:Cohen, Rucker, and O'Neil all should be gone, whether or not they actually have any say or not. It really does seem like all they did was shuffle deck chairs.


I really don't understand why Rucker and Cohen are the fall guys everyone wants fired, yes they both are Colangelo's hires, but so is Elton Brand. Rucker worked for Masai in Toronto and Ned Cohen worked for the NBA (and I remember Zach Lowe mentioning him as a potential future GM). To me that sounds like average front office personnel.

IMO most, if not all of the blame should be on Harris and O'Neil. If Rucker and Cohen were actually the ones behind all the moves, the blame should be on people that empowered them. I find it hard to believe that Harris allowed Rucker to be some kind of a mastermind that pulled all the strings in Sixers organization. My guess is Harris made all the big moves(like most of bad owners do) and doesn't want to fire 2 dudes who just listened to their boss.
Rucker worked for Colangelo Jr in Toronto, not for Masai, I think.
I mostly agree with you but I think the only move Harris pushed for was the Butler trade. I don't see him as an owner so involved in basketball operations.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1183 » by ankle420breaker » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:26 pm

My stance is that anyone who had a hand in the franchise altering decisions that were made last summer doesn’t deserve to keep their cushy seat at the table this year.

Levels of trust and credibility are earned on each man's merit. Rucker, Cohen, O'Neal.... these guys have done enough. The masses don't disagree that overhaul changes are absolutely necessary going forward.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1184 » by Sixerscan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:36 pm

Read on Twitter


Agree with Derek here. Just seems like we’re going backwards. Time to break out the Show Ya Luv shirts.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1185 » by Negrodamus » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:21 pm

I’m going to be honest, I don’t know the implications of any of these names. For all I know, Ned Cohen could have been fighting for moves I liked and was overruled. None of this is really resonating with me since there’s no real record to go on.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1186 » by Arsenal » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I’m going to be honest, I don’t know the implications of any of these names. For all I know, Ned Cohen could have been fighting for moves I liked and was overruled. None of this is really resonating with me since there’s no real record to go on.


That's the point of the current setup. Plausible deniability and a ready lineup of scapegoats for meddling little Joshy.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1187 » by rzzzzz » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:05 pm

so Kyle says that Dinwiddie was a favorite of Larry Bird at Indiana and Karangwa was a scout who may have had something to do with Orlando drafting Oladipo? not earthshattering, but not Colangelo-esque on the surface. (we hope.)
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1188 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:20 pm

I dont have any evidence to prove this but I have a feeling that it has something to do with pleasing Embiid, who was playing weird for the entire season. This includes the early part of the season where we were at the top of the power rankings.

Spike Eskin’s theory is that the guys in the FO that drafted Ben were responsible in the “pro-Ben” moves
we made during the offseason.

When it was reported that Embiid doesn’t have a coach with connection with Ben, maybe he also wants a FO that has no connection with Ben. Remember.. a FO and coach should work as a team. Doc strictly demand this if you do your research.

Ben’s enabler, Brett is out.
The Colangelo FO remnants that drafted Ben, is slowly getting out.

So before you guys attack me.. i want to be clear that im not saying this is the truth for again I don’t have any facts to back this. This is just in line with Spike Eskin’s theory on his podcast.

And Im not saying it’s Ben’s fault. Maybe it’s the “guys who are part of the pro-Ben” fault.

Doc doesn’t sound like he’s going away from playing big, by what he said about teams wanting to be the Warriors, pairing Biid and Al on some stretches and the rumor that we’re looking to hire Joeger.

It will be interesting on how things will develop.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1189 » by Sixerscan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:34 pm

rzzzzz wrote:so Kyle says that Dinwiddie was a favorite of Larry Bird at Indiana and Karangwa was a scout who may have had something to do with Orlando drafting Oladipo? not earthshattering, but not Colangelo-esque on the surface. (we hope.)

Seems a lot like colangelo hiring eversley actually. No name from a mediocre eastern conference team not known for being creative or cutting edge. Like this Dinwiddie guy is supposed to be a cap expert, what was the great cap move the pacers made recently? The magic have been drafting top half for a decade and they haven’t exactly had a lot of success.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1190 » by PhillyPhilly » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:47 pm

It really does make me laugh how so many people are baying for every member of the front offices blood when the reality is their record over the last few years has actually been more positive than negative.

1. They showed a willingness to try and get stars and make us a championship contender

2. They drafted Shamet, Shake and Matisse

3. They created a roster in 2018 that many believed was a top two roster in the league and that team was 15-2 before the playoffs and took the eventual champs to the last second of the game in game seven

4. The team they put together last year was also hailed as one of the best in the league and seen as favourites in the East. And that team would go on to hold a historic record at home whilst injuries killed their momentum on the road and ended their chances in the playoffs

5. Showed an ability to pick up some bargains like Alec Burks, Ennis etc

6. Turned the Fultz fiasco into a 21ST PICK


Now of course they've made mistakes!!..

1. Zhaire Smith pick looks terrible right now

2. Horford contract is clearly bad

3. Gave a little too much money Tobias (although I still agree with them trading for him)

4. Couldn't convince Jimmy to stay

Etc etc...so it's a mixed bag. But the way people talk it's as if they have been a disaster from start to finish and that simply isn't true. They've drafted relatively well, They've been aggressive in trying to bring stars to Philly, know how to spot a decent bargain in free agency and now they've gotten rid of Brett and attracted a championship winning coach.

Now, look at that list above and tell me what makes Daryl Morey's record In recent years any better than that? Morey went after stars too and gave out big contracts to the likes of Chris Paul and where did it get them? Then he goes and gets Westbrook who's contract is another disaster!!...then we can look at their draft record!!..who have the Rockets drafted lately that has made a huge impact? And yet Morey is seen as some "master GM" and Elton is crapped on? To me Morey is the Brad Stevens of GM's...reputation is bigger than the results. And don't get me wrong, If we can get Morey to be part of the front office then I'm all for it...but I just wanted to add some perspective. Morey had prime Harden, Chris Paul and Westbrook and couldn't even reach a finals!!..meanwhile Elton has only been GM for one and a half years, has been surrounded by the last GM's guys but at least his team could point to the fact that one of our major stars was missing during our playoff failure.

As for the two new hires. Karangwa is very interesting because if you look at his basketball resume it almost reads as identical to Masai Ujiri. Used to be a pro player in Europe, lots of connections to African players, Joins the Magic as a scout (just like Ujiri) and has now made the move to another organisation (Just like Ujiri did when he joined Denver) so it's gonna be very interesting to see how he does with us. Dinwiddie also appears to be a rising figure in the game who had been eyed by many organisations previously as a potential GM..so this is another decent appointment hopefully.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1191 » by Negrodamus » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:51 pm

Anyway.... The worst part of the hire is that I'm going to be forced to see the name Dinwiddie in a non-Spencer context all the time.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1192 » by PhillyPhilly » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:54 pm

Also just read that Morey's resignation doesn't come into effect until November!!..are teams allowed to hire him in the meantime? I'm not sure.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1193 » by Sixerscan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:58 pm

PhillyPhilly wrote:Also just read that Morey's resignation doesn't come into effect until November!!..are teams allowed to hire him in the meantime? I'm not sure.

11/1 is 2 weeks from now and there's nothing going on league-wise, could also easily just move that up if he wanted.

That said I don't think we'd be hiring all these people if Morey was an option.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1194 » by Skates » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:03 pm

I think Morey will take off at least a year to look at his options, recalibrate and is probably currently semi-blackballed by any bottom line owners over the China issue. We will get him next year if this year all goes to Hell and they really are forced to give control to a big name and allow him full command when it is time to try a different kind of Process, since we so thoroughly effed up the one that his protégé began with heavy doses of Colangelo and league mediocrity think.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1195 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:26 am

yeah I will wait until the next moves happen before throwing a hissy fit. It seems to be rare that anyone gets outright fired around here anyway...and the "Hinkie" guys who left simply got other positions (one dude is going into coaching).
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1196 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:00 am

Spoiler:
PhillyPhilly wrote:It really does make me laugh how so many people are baying for every member of the front offices blood when the reality is their record over the last few years has actually been more positive than negative.

1. They showed a willingness to try and get stars and make us a championship contender

2. They drafted Shamet, Shake and Matisse

3. They created a roster in 2018 that many believed was a top two roster in the league and that team was 15-2 before the playoffs and took the eventual champs to the last second of the game in game seven

4. The team they put together last year was also hailed as one of the best in the league and seen as favourites in the East. And that team would go on to hold a historic record at home whilst injuries killed their momentum on the road and ended their chances in the playoffs

5. Showed an ability to pick up some bargains like Alec Burks, Ennis etc

6. Turned the Fultz fiasco into a 21ST PICK


Now of course they've made mistakes!!..

1. Zhaire Smith pick looks terrible right now

2. Horford contract is clearly bad

3. Gave a little too much money Tobias (although I still agree with them trading for him)

4. Couldn't convince Jimmy to stay

Etc etc...so it's a mixed bag. But the way people talk it's as if they have been a disaster from start to finish and that simply isn't true. They've drafted relatively well, They've been aggressive in trying to bring stars to Philly, know how to spot a decent bargain in free agency and now they've gotten rid of Brett and attracted a championship winning coach.

Now, look at that list above and tell me what makes Daryl Morey's record In recent years any better than that? Morey went after stars too and gave out big contracts to the likes of Chris Paul and where did it get them? Then he goes and gets Westbrook who's contract is another disaster!!...then we can look at their draft record!!..who have the Rockets drafted lately that has made a huge impact? And yet Morey is seen as some "master GM" and Elton is crapped on? To me Morey is the Brad Stevens of GM's...reputation is bigger than the results. And don't get me wrong, If we can get Morey to be part of the front office then I'm all for it...but I just wanted to add some perspective. Morey had prime Harden, Chris Paul and Westbrook and couldn't even reach a finals!!..meanwhile Elton has only been GM for one and a half years, has been surrounded by the last GM's guys but at least his team could point to the fact that one of our major stars was missing during our playoff failure.

As for the two new hires. Karangwa is very interesting because if you look at his basketball resume it almost reads as identical to Masai Ujiri. Used to be a pro player in Europe, lots of connections to African players, Joins the Magic as a scout (just like Ujiri) and has now made the move to another organisation (Just like Ujiri did when he joined Denver) so it's gonna be very interesting to see how he does with us. Dinwiddie also appears to be a rising figure in the game who had been eyed by many organisations previously as a potential GM..so this is another decent appointment hopefully.


Agree with everything.

There’s also a fair amount of luck involved in all aspects of life. You can’t keep firing people just because they make mistakes. At some point guys like Doc or Morey would view our franchise as career suicides.

Look at the overall picture. You can’t just be evaluating based on results because, again, there is a fair amount of luck involved.

You feel bias?

Look at the pre-mortem sentiment by reading articles or threads on this board about a particular move.

How did we or the media feel about this team heading to 2019-2020 season? How about the Fultz trade?
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1197 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:12 am

what we aren;t going to do is defend any of the moves this past offseason. Who gives a **** what the media thinks. The media doesn't give a **** about this franchise. The media whining is part of why we are in the spot we are now thanks to them blowing a gasket over the process. The media also has been trying to break up Ben and Jo forever now; so them propping up the team only for it to not work out only plays into their narrative.

Look yes. Team building takes luck however this FO decided that the best option for this team was to take away our best shooter and our best shot creator and replace them with more guys who's best positions are the same as our two building blocks. Thats not **** being unlucky. There is no hindsight involved.\Every single move made this offseason backfired., the "best" one of taking Mattise is tainted by being sniped by Boston and honestly I question how much better he's going to get so lets pump the breaks their as well.

again these front office moves could be big; they could be moving the deck chairs on the titanic...or somewhere in the middle. Contracts are tricky things so who knows what is really going on in the background. But make no mistake there is no defending the job that was done last offseason...there is no unluckiness involved there. They made poor decisions.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1198 » by PhillyPhilly » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:32 am

Mik317 wrote:what we aren;t going to do is defend any of the moves this past offseason. Who gives a **** what the media thinks. The media doesn't give a **** about this franchise. The media whining is part of why we are in the spot we are now thanks to them blowing a gasket over the process. The media also has been trying to break up Ben and Jo forever now; so them propping up the team only for it to not work out only plays into their narrative.

Look yes. Team building takes luck however this FO decided that the best option for this team was to take away our best shooter and our best shot creator and replace them with more guys who's best positions are the same as our two building blocks. Thats not **** being unlucky. There is no hindsight involved.\Every single move made this offseason backfired., the "best" one of taking Mattise is tainted by being sniped by Boston and honestly I question how much better he's going to get so lets pump the breaks their as well.

again these front office moves could be big; they could be moving the deck chairs on the titanic...or somewhere in the middle. Contracts are tricky things so who knows what is really going on in the background. But make no mistake there is no defending the job that was done last offseason...there is no unluckiness involved there. They made poor decisions.


Jerry West sold the clippers future to get PG and couldn't even reach the West finals. Morey put all his eggs in Westbrook's basket and got bounced in the second round. Reddick was old as hell and kept getting exposed defensively in the playoffs whilst Jimmy was a free agent...so they had no control over where he went in the end. Granted the Horford deal was terrible but other teams have made worse mistakes...see Celtics trade for Kyrie as an example and what they lost in the end.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1199 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:44 am

Mik317 wrote:what we aren;t going to do is defend any of the moves this past offseason. Who gives a **** what the media thinks. The media doesn't give a **** about this franchise. The media whining is part of why we are in the spot we are now thanks to them blowing a gasket over the process. The media also has been trying to break up Ben and Jo forever now; so them propping up the team only for it to not work out only plays into their narrative.

Look yes. Team building takes luck however this FO decided that the best option for this team was to take away our best shooter and our best shot creator and replace them with more guys who's best positions are the same as our two building blocks. Thats not **** being unlucky. There is no hindsight involved.\Every single move made this offseason backfired., the "best" one of taking Mattise is tainted by being sniped by Boston and honestly I question how much better he's going to get so lets pump the breaks their as well.

again these front office moves could be big; they could be moving the deck chairs on the titanic...or somewhere in the middle. Contracts are tricky things so who knows what is really going on in the background. But make no mistake there is no defending the job that was done last offseason...there is no unluckiness involved there. They made poor decisions.


Most people on this forum (see pages 9 of the threads) were also on board with the moves we made for the 2019-2020 season. So it’s not just like the entire media projected us to be a really good team.

It’s almost consensus given how the fans (our board and social media), analytics and actual NBA executives and coaches all projected our team to made the finals. When they made that projection, they were looking at the overall team’s talent.

And we have to respect that these guys may be more knowledgeable than us, mere fans who don’t have any skin in the game or machinery than them.

I can lay down all the links of these opinions/projections if you wish to look at it.

For instance, we all know we were one of the top teams in the power rankings to start the season. I believe it goes downhill when Biid got suspended.

Then by Feb (mid season), we were still projected to be the top team in the east. That is despite all the injuries and chemistry issues.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-nba-finals-chances-bucks-lakers-clippers

Sure we got swept, but during the bubble we had one of the top offense during the bubble (i’ll check again). And we didn’t have Ben playing during the playoffs.

If you ask me (gut feel) it’s really more an internal locker room issue with us than a talent issue.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#1200 » by BB_Fan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:28 am

PhillyPhilly wrote:It really does make me laugh how so many people are baying for every member of the front offices blood when the reality is their record over the last few years has actually been more positive than negative.

1. They showed a willingness to try and get stars and make us a championship contender

2. They drafted Shamet, Shake and Matisse

3. They created a roster in 2018 that many believed was a top two roster in the league and that team was 15-2 before the playoffs and took the eventual champs to the last second of the game in game seven

4. The team they put together last year was also hailed as one of the best in the league and seen as favourites in the East. And that team would go on to hold a historic record at home whilst injuries killed their momentum on the road and ended their chances in the playoffs

5. Showed an ability to pick up some bargains like Alec Burks, Ennis etc

6. Turned the Fultz fiasco into a 21ST PICK


Now of course they've made mistakes!!..

1. Zhaire Smith pick looks terrible right now

2. Horford contract is clearly bad

3. Gave a little too much money Tobias (although I still agree with them trading for him)

4. Couldn't convince Jimmy to stay

Etc etc...so it's a mixed bag. But the way people talk it's as if they have been a disaster from start to finish and that simply isn't true. They've drafted relatively well, They've been aggressive in trying to bring stars to Philly, know how to spot a decent bargain in free agency and now they've gotten rid of Brett and attracted a championship winning coach.

Now, look at that list above and tell me what makes Daryl Morey's record In recent years any better than that? Morey went after stars too and gave out big contracts to the likes of Chris Paul and where did it get them? Then he goes and gets Westbrook who's contract is another disaster!!...then we can look at their draft record!!..who have the Rockets drafted lately that has made a huge impact? And yet Morey is seen as some "master GM" and Elton is crapped on? To me Morey is the Brad Stevens of GM's...reputation is bigger than the results. And don't get me wrong, If we can get Morey to be part of the front office then I'm all for it...but I just wanted to add some perspective. Morey had prime Harden, Chris Paul and Westbrook and couldn't even reach a finals!!..meanwhile Elton has only been GM for one and a half years, has been surrounded by the last GM's guys but at least his team could point to the fact that one of our major stars was missing during our playoff failure.

As for the two new hires. Karangwa is very interesting because if you look at his basketball resume it almost reads as identical to Masai Ujiri. Used to be a pro player in Europe, lots of connections to African players, Joins the Magic as a scout (just like Ujiri) and has now made the move to another organisation (Just like Ujiri did when he joined Denver) so it's gonna be very interesting to see how he does with us. Dinwiddie also appears to be a rising figure in the game who had been eyed by many organisations previously as a potential GM..so this is another decent appointment hopefully.


Let me list the mistakes of Front Office . Front Office folks are paid very well and the decisions they have made are useless -

1) Fultz - why draft him # 1 and not trade him before his value dropped.

2) Al Horford contract - There was no need to sign for 4 year contract at 108 M year. It only makes sense if you plan to trade embiid.

3) Tobias Contract -. He is an average player that you get a lot in NBA. He will never make it to All NBA team or be an All star. He is paid at that level.

4) 2018 draft night trade was useless. Zhaire smith is useless and we wasted Mikal Bridges who would have been contributor.

The roster they assembled is so bad that team cannot win any road game. The team would have been better if that had not traded anybody and retained the 2018 team.

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