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So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors

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What is the pivot now that Harden is gone? Votes can be changed

Beal
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41%
Lavine
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18%
Smaller moves around the edges
28
41%
 
Total votes: 68

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#41 » by kingofthecourt67 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:40 am

Why does there always have to be some big move on the horizon? For a team that has been killed by a lack of continuity, yall are awfully ready to blow things up after looking really good to start the season.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#42 » by davesilver » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:41 am

kingofthecourt67 wrote:Why does there always have to be some big move on the horizon? For a team that has been killed by a lack of continuity, yall are awfully ready to blow things up after looking really good to start the season.


That is just how the human mind works. Always overreacting to the present.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#43 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am

kingofthecourt67 wrote:Why does there always have to be some big move on the horizon? For a team that has been killed by a lack of continuity, yall are awfully ready to blow things up after looking really good to start the season.


LOL have you seen Ben play recently? Joel has made the jump and Ben has somehow regressed. Window is closing, Jojo is getting older, and the Nets on paper are a juggernaut. Sooner or later the league is going to realize that Ben at best is an elite 3rd banana. We need to trade him this year if we want to get any sort of star in return.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#44 » by Tomjas » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am

Have been saying this for what seems like forever

Guys like Patty Mills, Lou Williams and Derrick Rose are infinitely more obtainable than a superstar & would fit seemlessly into our rotation for no great cost
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#45 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:08 am

There’s no pivot or its a panic move. Morey would look bad.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#46 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:10 am

I think Beal is overrated, so is Ben.

I think Beal has way more value than Ben.

I think Beal is way better fit than Ben with Biid.

I would trade Ben for Beal.

I think Beal can be had for Ben with no to less picks and no Maxey.

I think we need a third team because Ben and RW can’t fit.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#47 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:31 am

eyeatoma wrote:
kingofthecourt67 wrote:Why does there always have to be some big move on the horizon? For a team that has been killed by a lack of continuity, yall are awfully ready to blow things up after looking really good to start the season.


LOL have you seen Ben play recently? Joel has made the jump and Ben has somehow regressed. Window is closing, Jojo is getting older, and the Nets on paper are a juggernaut. Sooner or later the league is going to realize that Ben at best is an elite 3rd banana. We need to trade him this year if we want to get any sort of star in return.


Exactly.

How many more season as “sample size” do we need to decide on Ben?

With or without Harden, we have to trade Ben.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#48 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am

eyeatoma wrote:
kingofthecourt67 wrote:Why does there always have to be some big move on the horizon? For a team that has been killed by a lack of continuity, yall are awfully ready to blow things up after looking really good to start the season.


LOL have you seen Ben play recently? Joel has made the jump and Ben has somehow regressed. Window is closing, Jojo is getting older, and the Nets on paper are a juggernaut. Sooner or later the league is going to realize that Ben at best is an elite 3rd banana. We need to trade him this year if we want to get any sort of star in return.

Take a quick look at Ben’s stats the November last year. Hasn’t regressed.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#49 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:17 am

Sixerscan wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
kingofthecourt67 wrote:Why does there always have to be some big move on the horizon? For a team that has been killed by a lack of continuity, yall are awfully ready to blow things up after looking really good to start the season.


LOL have you seen Ben play recently? Joel has made the jump and Ben has somehow regressed. Window is closing, Jojo is getting older, and the Nets on paper are a juggernaut. Sooner or later the league is going to realize that Ben at best is an elite 3rd banana. We need to trade him this year if we want to get any sort of star in return.

Take a quick look at Ben’s stats the November last year. Hasn’t regressed.
Yup it's his annual ramp up for the all star game. He plays like ass the first month or two, then starts picking it up. So yeah his numbers may get better, but apart from defense has he substantially improved his game at all? By in large he is the same player while his peers are producing more.

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#50 » by TTP » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:39 am

sixers hoops wrote:
Phila Tough wrote:I don't understand. Ben has looked fine before covid and injuries killed our rhythm and we were 7-1. Furthermore, I do not know the exact numbers, but Philly is a noticeably better team when he plays. I also don't think that It is really smart to judge anything off of these games so early into the season, especially considering the odd situation the NBA is in with a short season and COVID. There's more evidence of Ben being an elite two-way floor general at 25 years old than what he showed last night, coming back from an injury. I am not saying that I wouldn't of traded him for Harden straight up, but adding Maxey, Thybulle, and FRPs is doing way too much. It's really unlikely, but at 24 years old, Ben could still end up a better player than Harden. Not to mention that James is 31 years old and overweight.


You said we looked fine and were 7-1, then follow that up by saying it’s not smart to judge anything off these early season games. You basically said Ben looked good early season, but then when he looked bad, we shouldn’t judge those games lol.

When we were 7-1, where you honestly that impressed? I thought we looked okay against some really bad teams. I didn’t really see that stretch as a sign that we turned the corner into a great team or anything.

What’s makes you think Ben could be a better player than Harden? They are in different classes as players. I don’t really see Ben’s game evolving to project him to be someday better than Harden. And you mentioned Ben as an elite two way floor general. Ben is a good ball handler and passer, but how is he elite offensively?


We had the best 5 man unit in the league at that point. I'm not sure how they could impress you if that doesn't do it.

There was very much evidence that we could be a great team. It was far from guaranteed but that early performance was about as great of an indicator as you could reasonably expect to have.

Everyone brings up that the schedule was weak but it's been quite a long time since we've dominated anyone like that for an extended stretch. Even some of the games that were close (first Wizards game, Raptors) were only close because we shot way under expectation from 3 and the other team shot well.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#51 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:54 am

The move now is to trade Ben for beal or lavine.

Be better now and be more flexible in the future by having a likely more valuable asset in the future.

Unless we want to be a perennial paper tiger regular season champion like a weaker milwaukee bucks, then we have to do a trade.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#52 » by DCasey91 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:14 am

Next best targets for me as follows in terms of priority (Go from the top down, smaller moves happen after).

If we’re targeting Beal than Ben is gone (No Harris and picks will not get you beal let’s be serious here.)

Is there a chance we can get Lavine (again disgruntled doesn’t like the management supposdely) without giving up Ben? That seems to me like a possibility here.

I’m high on Milton/Maxey but if they don’t project to better than Lavine which is too early to say (But once again we have a 3-4 yr window that’s it. We ride and die with Embiid’s play.) I would do it 100%.
If we can get under Harris’s contract that’s a huge bonus (Markannen looks realistic as well).

Next up is Lowry if we can snag him for a 1st rnd pick and an expriring I would that in a heartbeat too.

Lowry
Curry
Lavine
Simmons
Embiid

Plus keeping one of Maxey/Milton with Markannen off the bench as a stretch 4

Or something like:

Lowry
Beal
Milton
Markkanen
Embiid

Same deal but with Curry off the bench

I think these are shrewd moves which can help now and still protect our future too.

This is just spitballing

But if we’re going for Beal, Ben is gone

If we’re going for Lavine I’d keep Simmons at the expense of one of Milton/Maxey

Get out of Harris’s contract for a similar type that’s way younger

Get Lowry without giving up more than one 1st end pick (Thybulle can be included as a preference)

Either way we need to pair Embiid with the correct prototype players

Off/on ball pg Guard that shoot and run pnr or a legit perimeter wing threat

How he played with 3 other PF/C’s and still dominated at times goes to show you how great Embiid is.

Only thing moving forward that would raise the ceiling big time if we stayed pat and did nothing

would be if Milton takes a huge step this year and looks like an All star caliber combo threat moving forward.

That remains to be seen and not likely but next year would be his 4th season and would be 25. That timeline matches up very well to Embiid & Simmons.

Maxey is too young but has heaps of promise

Thybulle, korkmaz and the rest are complimentary
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#53 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:19 am

DCasey91 wrote:Next best targets for me as follows in terms of priority (Go from the top down, smaller moves happen after).


If we’re targeting Beal than Ben is gone (No Harris and picks will not get you beal let’s be serious here.)


Is there a chance we can get Lavine (again disgruntled doesn’t like the management supposdely) without giving up Ben? That seems to me like a possibility here.

I’m high on Milton/Maxey but if they don’t project to better than Lavine which is too early to say (But once again we have a 3-4 yr window that’s it. We ride and die with Embiid’s play.) I would do it 100%
If we can get under Harris’s contract that’s a huge bonus (Markannen looks realistic as well).


Next up is Lowry if we can snag him for a 1st end pick and an expriring I would that in a heartbeat too.

Lowry
Curry
Lavine
Simmons
Embiid

Plus keeping one of Maxey/Milton with Markannen off the bench as a stretch 4

Or something like:

Lowry
Beal
Milton
Markkanen
Embiid

Same deal but with Curry off the bench

I think these are shrewd moves which can help now and still protect our future too.

This is just spitballing

But if we’re going for Beal, Ben is gone

If we’re going for Lavine I’d keep Simmons at the expense of one of Milton/Maxey

Get out of Harris’s contract for a similar type that’s way younger

Get Lowry without giving up more than one 1st end pick (Thybulle can be included as a preference)

Either way we need to pair Embiid with the correct prototype players

Off/on ball pg Guard that shoot and run pnr or a legit perimeter wing threat

How he played with 3 other PF/C’s and still dominated at times goes to show you how great Embiid is.


Great post, agree that this should be the plan. I'm secretly praying for Kyrie to destroy the Nets form inside. If that happens without many moves we could be the favorites of the east. But rest assured we will need to make a move be it Ben or Tobi.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#54 » by Wilfried » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:22 am

bball4life wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Kyle Lowry is the most likely and best option in that he won't cost nearly as much as Beal, LaVine, etc.

Green + filler + a 1st should get it done.

I like this move honestly. Good defender, immediately moves into the starting lineup and pushes Simmons to PF. Good defender/flopper which is going to matter in the playoffs. Shouldn’t have to give up much on an expiring deal. For salaries will probably have to be green and Scott I would guess.

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So you're pushing Tobias back to sf than? :banghead:
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#55 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:25 am

TTP wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
Phila Tough wrote:I don't understand. Ben has looked fine before covid and injuries killed our rhythm and we were 7-1. Furthermore, I do not know the exact numbers, but Philly is a noticeably better team when he plays. I also don't think that It is really smart to judge anything off of these games so early into the season, especially considering the odd situation the NBA is in with a short season and COVID. There's more evidence of Ben being an elite two-way floor general at 25 years old than what he showed last night, coming back from an injury. I am not saying that I wouldn't of traded him for Harden straight up, but adding Maxey, Thybulle, and FRPs is doing way too much. It's really unlikely, but at 24 years old, Ben could still end up a better player than Harden. Not to mention that James is 31 years old and overweight.


You said we looked fine and were 7-1, then follow that up by saying it’s not smart to judge anything off these early season games. You basically said Ben looked good early season, but then when he looked bad, we shouldn’t judge those games lol.

When we were 7-1, where you honestly that impressed? I thought we looked okay against some really bad teams. I didn’t really see that stretch as a sign that we turned the corner into a great team or anything.

What’s makes you think Ben could be a better player than Harden? They are in different classes as players. I don’t really see Ben’s game evolving to project him to be someday better than Harden. And you mentioned Ben as an elite two way floor general. Ben is a good ball handler and passer, but how is he elite offensively?


We had the best 5 man unit in the league at that point. I'm not sure how they could impress you if that doesn't do it.

There was very much evidence that we could be a great team. It was far from guaranteed but that early performance was about as great of an indicator as you could reasonably expect to have.

Everyone brings up that the schedule was weak but it's been quite a long time since we've dominated anyone like that for an extended stretch. Even some of the games that were close (first Wizards game, Raptors) were only close because we shot way under expectation from 3 and the other team shot well.


Best five man unit against teams we won’t see in the playoffs. I’m not impressed when we beat up on bad teams. Instead of “indicators” that we can be great, I will wait to see how we actually do against good teams. I don’t believe this “evidence” that we can be a great team. We are still eliminated in the second round in my estimation, and those early season games didn’t change that at all for me.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#56 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:43 am

My fearless forecast:
Sixers will go after Bradley Beal. But it will not involve Ben.

Tobias, Thybulle, Milton and all available picks till 2025.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#57 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:00 pm

Just chill, let organic growth run its course. Maybe a smaller move for Patty Mills? I'd love to get Terry Rozier or Devante Graham from Charlotte. Missing out on Harden will prove to be a blessing.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#58 » by TTP » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:12 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
TTP wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
You said we looked fine and were 7-1, then follow that up by saying it’s not smart to judge anything off these early season games. You basically said Ben looked good early season, but then when he looked bad, we shouldn’t judge those games lol.

When we were 7-1, where you honestly that impressed? I thought we looked okay against some really bad teams. I didn’t really see that stretch as a sign that we turned the corner into a great team or anything.

What’s makes you think Ben could be a better player than Harden? They are in different classes as players. I don’t really see Ben’s game evolving to project him to be someday better than Harden. And you mentioned Ben as an elite two way floor general. Ben is a good ball handler and passer, but how is he elite offensively?


We had the best 5 man unit in the league at that point. I'm not sure how they could impress you if that doesn't do it.

There was very much evidence that we could be a great team. It was far from guaranteed but that early performance was about as great of an indicator as you could reasonably expect to have.

Everyone brings up that the schedule was weak but it's been quite a long time since we've dominated anyone like that for an extended stretch. Even some of the games that were close (first Wizards game, Raptors) were only close because we shot way under expectation from 3 and the other team shot well.


Best five man unit against teams we won’t see in the playoffs. I’m not impressed when we beat up on bad teams. Instead of “indicators” that we can be great, I will wait to see how we actually do against good teams. I don’t believe this “evidence” that we can be a great team. We are still eliminated in the second round in my estimation, and those early season games didn’t change that at all for me.


Interesting that you chose the word still, because a few months ago, we were not a second round playoff team. We were a swept in the first round playoff team without much future financial flexibility. Embiid wasn't dominating. Tobias Harris was looking really rough.

To go from that to a 7-1 start with MVP level production from Embiid, All Star level production from Tobias Harris, a deep and productive bench, and what looks to be a fluid offense and top tier defense, is quite impressive to me, regardless of who the games were against.

Even more impressive is that the new lineup gelled so quickly with such a limited offseason. I would have expected a much slower start and they've exceeded expectations. Imagine how they'll look as they get more and more used to playing with each other.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#59 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:56 pm

Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#60 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:05 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?

He was on the block not because he was unwanted, so I dont think it’s going to be much of a deal.

It’s in his best interest to stick with the team. Because it is his best chance to get a supermax.
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