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Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1981 » by Sixerscan » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:39 pm

76ciology wrote:In 2 games this season without Ben.

We’re attempting just as many 3s (+-30 attempts) and transition FGAs (+-15 attempts) than without Ben, but we’re better in converting more on those two aspects of scoring.

It’s just 2 game sample size but I dont really see how big we’re missing Ben on offense


SSS and quality of defenses aside, the offense has been good, but a lot of that is Drummond minutes (the ones Ben wouldn’t be playing) have actually been oddly good while the Embiid minutes (the ones Ben would be playing) have been oddly bad. Drummond and Furkan have the two highest offensive ratings on the team. So I don’t know how much Ben being out has anything to do with that, unless you want to say he’s unleashed Point Korkmaz on the world.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1982 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:06 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:In 2 games this season without Ben.

We’re attempting just as many 3s (+-30 attempts) and transition FGAs (+-15 attempts) than without Ben, but we’re better in converting more on those two aspects of scoring.

It’s just 2 game sample size but I dont really see how big we’re missing Ben on offense


SSS and quality of defenses aside, the offense has been good, but a lot of that is Drummond minutes (the ones Ben wouldn’t be playing) have actually been oddly good while the Embiid minutes (the ones Ben would be playing) have been oddly bad. Drummond and Furkan have the two highest offensive ratings on the team. So I don’t know how much Ben being out has anything to do with that, unless you want to say he’s unleashed Point Korkmaz on the world.


Partly that.

Like if you remove Ben, you dont like totally remove his production for there’s gonna be someone who will play his position and also produce. And nowadays there’s like a lot of players who can just step in and we wont even feel like Ben has left a big hole on the offense at all. You look at Maxey or Kork and they’re not even THAT good.

Imagine let’s say we traded Ben for Brogdon, you’ll probably looking a much better offensive team than our team with Ben. Now imagine if we land Morey’s targets like Dame or Beal instead.

Now, im not crazy enough to be so deterministic after two games. But as of two games, I just dont see Ben’s absence made us a worse team and It would be interesting to track our offense if we actually would suffer without one of the league’s leaders in 3pt creation. If not, then it confirms that this metric is just overblown to boost Ben’s importance on offense
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1983 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:11 pm

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:Semi-OT: I thought Tobi’s value took a hit without Ben. We suddenly looked small with Tobi at PF, which isnt the case when you have Ben.


Because he's tweener. If you look at the starting lineup mostly everyone is a tweener at this point in their career except Embiid.

Embiid-Legit 2way center

Tweenville:
Tobi -not exactly a 4 or 3
Green- at this stage in his career will have trouble with legit wings and he's not exactly as SG.
Seth- Too small to be a SG no PG skills
Maxey- You could call him a combo guard but right now his skillset leans to a small slashing 2 guard.


I dont mind tweeners, its actually a very good thing in today’s NBA.

But Tobi for me is tweening at the wrong position at 3&4, when he should be tweening at 2&3, in terms of size. Problem is he is not quick enough or skilled enough to play those position.

And it was not an issue back then when we had Ben. Whereas Ben can provide that length to make up for Tobi’s size issue. But right now, I feel like we have a really small team with Tobi at PF.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1984 » by phillynative » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:14 pm

Is it because the bench has better playmakers lol Drummond, Korkmaz and Niang playmaking> Our starting 5 playmaking lol
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1985 » by phillynative » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:19 pm

76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:Semi-OT: I thought Tobi’s value took a hit without Ben. We suddenly looked small with Tobi at PF, which isnt the case when you have Ben.


Because he's tweener. If you look at the starting lineup mostly everyone is a tweener at this point in their career except Embiid.

Embiid-Legit 2way center

Tweenville:
Tobi -not exactly a 4 or 3
Green- at this stage in his career will have trouble with legit wings and he's not exactly as SG.
Seth- Too small to be a SG no PG skills
Maxey- You could call him a combo guard but right now his skillset leans to a small slashing 2 guard.


I dont mind tweeners, its actually a very good thing in today’s NBA.

But Tobi for me is tweening at the wrong position at 3&4, when he should be tweening at 2&3, in terms of size. Problem is he is not quick enough or skilled enough to play those position.

And it was not an issue back then when we had Ben. Whereas Ben can provide that length to make up for Tobi’s size issue. But right now, I feel like we have a really small team with Tobi at PF.


Tweeners are good if they can give the opposing team mismatch problems. Remember Thad Young he was classic tweener 3/4 but he gave mismatch problem as a 4 because he was very quick and springy but also long enough to defend and rebound..
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1986 » by Ferry Avenue » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:38 pm

76ciology wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:In 2 games this season without Ben.

We’re attempting just as many 3s (+-30 attempts) and transition FGAs (+-15 attempts) than without Ben, but we’re better in converting more on those two aspects of scoring.

It’s just 2 game sample size but I dont really see how big we’re missing Ben on offense


SSS and quality of defenses aside, the offense has been good, but a lot of that is Drummond minutes (the ones Ben wouldn’t be playing) have actually been oddly good while the Embiid minutes (the ones Ben would be playing) have been oddly bad. Drummond and Furkan have the two highest offensive ratings on the team. So I don’t know how much Ben being out has anything to do with that, unless you want to say he’s unleashed Point Korkmaz on the world.


Partly that.

Like if you remove Ben, you dont like totally remove his production for there’s gonna be someone who will play his position and also produce. And nowadays there’s like a lot of players who can just step in and we wont even feel like Ben has left a big hole on the offense at all. You look at Maxey or Kork and they’re not even THAT good.

Imagine let’s say we traded Ben for Brogdon, you’ll probably looking a much better offensive team than our team with Ben. Now imagine if we land Morey’s targets like Dame or Beal instead.

Now, im not crazy enough to be so deterministic after two games. But as of two games, I just dont see Ben’s absence made us a worse team and It would be interesting to track our offense if we actually would suffer without one of the league’s leaders in 3pt creation. If not, then it confirms that this metric is just overblown to boost Ben’s importance on offense

I think you also have to consider that Simmons's game has devolved, while the league's ability to "figure him out" and defend him has increased alongside that. Consequently you have a player who is largely ineffective and could very well make this team worse if and when he plays this year. Certainly he made them worse when he played most recently.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1987 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:45 pm

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:
Because he's tweener. If you look at the starting lineup mostly everyone is a tweener at this point in their career except Embiid.

Embiid-Legit 2way center

Tweenville:
Tobi -not exactly a 4 or 3
Green- at this stage in his career will have trouble with legit wings and he's not exactly as SG.
Seth- Too small to be a SG no PG skills
Maxey- You could call him a combo guard but right now his skillset leans to a small slashing 2 guard.


I dont mind tweeners, its actually a very good thing in today’s NBA.

But Tobi for me is tweening at the wrong position at 3&4, when he should be tweening at 2&3, in terms of size. Problem is he is not quick enough or skilled enough to play those position.

And it was not an issue back then when we had Ben. Whereas Ben can provide that length to make up for Tobi’s size issue. But right now, I feel like we have a really small team with Tobi at PF.


Tweeners are good if they can give the opposing team mismatch problems. Remember Thad Young he was classic tweener 3/4 but he gave mismatch problem as a 4 because he was very quick and springy but also long enough to defend and rebound..


Yup make a good point. Yeah in toby’s case i dont see mismatches quite often while he’s not a reliable high volume 3pt shooter. He has to play a lot of 2 man game as a handler or screener and transition to get his points.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1988 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:50 pm

phillynative wrote:Is it because the bench has better playmakers lol Drummond, Korkmaz and Niang playmaking> Our starting 5 playmaking lol


3pt creation among multiple scorers > 3pt creation from a non scorer

That’s how i look at it.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1989 » by Sixerscan » Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:29 pm

76ciology wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:In 2 games this season without Ben.

We’re attempting just as many 3s (+-30 attempts) and transition FGAs (+-15 attempts) than without Ben, but we’re better in converting more on those two aspects of scoring.

It’s just 2 game sample size but I dont really see how big we’re missing Ben on offense


SSS and quality of defenses aside, the offense has been good, but a lot of that is Drummond minutes (the ones Ben wouldn’t be playing) have actually been oddly good while the Embiid minutes (the ones Ben would be playing) have been oddly bad. Drummond and Furkan have the two highest offensive ratings on the team. So I don’t know how much Ben being out has anything to do with that, unless you want to say he’s unleashed Point Korkmaz on the world.


Partly that.

Like if you remove Ben, you dont like totally remove his production for there’s gonna be someone who will play his position and also produce. And nowadays there’s like a lot of players who can just step in and we wont even feel like Ben has left a big hole on the offense at all. You look at Maxey or Kork and they’re not even THAT good.

Imagine let’s say we traded Ben for Brogdon, you’ll probably looking a much better offensive team than our team with Ben. Now imagine if we land Morey’s targets like Dame or Beal instead.

Now, im not crazy enough to be so deterministic after two games. But as of two games, I just dont see Ben’s absence made us a worse team and It would be interesting to track our offense if we actually would suffer without one of the league’s leaders in 3pt creation. If not, then it confirms that this metric is just overblown to boost Ben’s importance on offense


I don't think we'll miss his offense nearly as much as his defense. I would say his biggest value for an offense is actually how good he is on defense and rebounding because it's much easier to score after a stop.

Anyway, my point is, so far, they've certainly been less effective in the minutes he would have played, they've just been good enough in the minutes he wouldn't have played anyway to balance it out.

TBD how sustainable that is (probably not very) but I'm not sure how the team doing well with Drummond on the court reflects on Simmons anymore than it reflects on Embiid or anyone else that isn't on the court at that time. What matters is the minutes he would have been on the court.

For example:

Main starting 5 last year: 117.7 offensive rating +14.0 net
Main starting 5 this year: 110.0 offensive rating +6.0 net

Embiid and Simmons together last year: 118.2 offensive rating +15.5 net
Embiid and Maxey this year: 109.9 offensive rating -1.1 net
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1990 » by Skates » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:32 pm

A fair part of the starters being less effective is of course missing your all star PG or the replacement you trade him for, but small forward is a black hole of suckitude right now. Danny Green is fouling on D and missing everything on offense. No PG can make that better, just cover up for it a bit.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1991 » by Madd Squabbles » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:48 pm

KramerDSP wrote:Re: Ingram - there is a lot of smoke that he and Zion do not get along, and NOLA has hitched their wagon to Zion, for better or worse.

I mentioned it before, but the only way I see a three way with Simmons and Ingram is if Minnesota decides it’s better to get rid of Towns now. I think Towns is the stretch five center that fits best with Zion. Simmons-Russell-Edwards in Minn. Ingram to Philly.

Odds of that happening are sub-5% for sure.


There is zero smoke that Ingram and Zion don't get along. They get along just fine. Lets see a link from one credible source that they don't get along? lol!
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1992 » by Madd Squabbles » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:50 pm

PhillyNj wrote:
Madd Squabbles wrote:
PhillyNj wrote:Are you kidding Simmons is way better than Ingram.
Did you even notice he was a negative 29 +_ against the Sixers!


If Simmons is way better than Ingram then the Sixers should just keep Simmons. Don't ya think?

If he wanted to stay? Absolutely!


He has 4 years left on his deal. Just keep the player who YOU say is much better than Ingram I say :)
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1993 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:45 am

Michelle Roberts making it as issue that Morey said he can wait four years to trade Ben is BS.

They have to be fair on both parties who are involved in the contract.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1994 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:47 am

If Im Pels, Im trading Ingram for someone like Dame or Beal. Not Ben. Just try to win now ASAP with Zion then go for full rebuild.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1995 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:54 am

RedSalsa wrote:I would have traded Brogdon straight up for Ben if that’s what Indy was offering. He’s frankly a better player and we’d be 2-0 now. This dream Darrell Morey has about getting Bradley Beal or Damian Lillard is just foolish.


But its a shot worth taking.

I think Morey is open in trading Ben for packages not Beal or Lillard, that is after if he can get confirm that he has no shot in landing one of them at his deadline that I dont think it would last after the trade deadline.

For now, best position is to hold. Near the deadline, teams will he more open to trade, once he gets offers the value of Ben will increase
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1996 » by 76ciology » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 am

League should give teams option to terminate contracts if a player has not met certain conditions like in terms of performance of due to this kind of behaviors.

Actually whats happening is kind of it. Lets say Ben drags this after four years, sixers probably can just not pay him and he’d pretty much be out of the league until 5 years from now.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6 

Post#1997 » by Stanford » Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:55 pm

RedSalsa wrote:we’d be 2-0 now.


lol wow sweet

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