Hawks @ Sixers – 7:30PM, Sat, Oct. 30, 2021

[zaz102]

But he should. Everyone love mattise defense but he need to make a lot of plays to be a sustained positive player, specially in a limited offensive system like the one we have.

He's also the only real tradeable player (most if you include Shake on a possible deal) that we can use to get a decent PG (asuming we still don't trade Ben)

Matisse and Shake aren't getting you a decent point guard.

What is the threshold for decent point guard, in your opinion?

A guard that would have a more than neglible impact on winning a championship or has a good chance of being that in the future.

[Stanford]

Matisse and Shake aren't getting you a decent point guard.

What is the threshold for decent point guard, in your opinion?

A guard that would have a more than neglible impact on winning a championship or has a good chance of being that in the future.

lol actual player

[zaz102]

What is the threshold for decent point guard, in your opinion?

A guard that would have a more than neglible impact on winning a championship or has a good chance of being that in the future.

lol actual player

If I could think of one that would make close to sense I would post one. Obviously you could go from Trae Young to Steph Curry, but that's ridiculous.

I was thinking Derrick Rose who's flawed and older (so not exactly a huge upgrade), but he makes close to $14M whereas Shake and Thybulle combined make $4M. This is kind of my point though. I can't think of a realistic option.

Do you have a realistic list of players? I can't think of any. At the salaries, I feel like you'd essentially be looking at rookie deal players and if they want to trade our flawed players, they would be offering equally flawed players or someone about to get a huge pay increase that a team won't want to pay maybe.

[TTP]

Well the reason he only has 8 shots is that he’s struggled to get open in the real part of regular season games, and he still needs to be pretty open to get his shot off. He needs to learn the off ball dance a little better, bulk up so he doesn’t get enveloped by bigger defenders as much and/or get comfortable with taking somewhat contested shots. Or just get into a perfect situation where he’s on the court with multiple guys that can draw double teams.

But yeah like phillynative said, he’s probably gonna have to force the issue to get playing time over who is front of him.

I’d have to go and look at all of the tape in the other games to fully recollect what happened in those, but I watched and analyzed every single Joe possession in the 4 minute sequence in the Brooklyn game, and I believe the team had him involved in exactly one offensive possession. I think that sole possession was a quick 3 off a Niang DHO screen, and he easily got off a solid attempt. Every other possession, he was just parked in the corner.

At least in that game, that is not Joe struggling to get open. If his role is designed to sit in the corner and wait for an open look, it’s more on his teammates to get him the open look (and I’m not suggesting he can’t do things to help himself out more like Danny Green might).

However, it’s a pretty big waste of his offensive talent to just park him in the corner on nearly all of his possessions. It’s on the coach to make better use of his talents and draw up plays to get him a bit more involved in the gameplan, especially when he’s shown the ability to move around off ball and get a huge volume of 3s off.

He would definitely be better with a real point guard that could find him. That's not the situation with this team though.

Coaches don't build offenses to maximize late 2nd round picks that haven't done anything in the league yet. He's gonna have to carve out his role just like Shake, Korkmaz and Niang have during their careers.

I'm intrigued by him longer term but I don't think playing 11 guys is good for anyone and right now with this roster I don't see who I would want to take out of the rotation for him. Take Shake or Korkmaz out and there isn't enough ball handling, Thybulle there isn't enough defense, Niang or Drummond there isn't enough size.

I mean Duncan Robinson, Talen Horton-Tucker, and Terance Mann are all recent counterexamples on championship aspiring teams from the last couple seasons - guys that were second round picks that did very little in their first season but were given a significantly more substantial role in year two without a great track record. You can add Shake to that list too, because the only reason he didn't get more minutes sooner in his second season was because he had a bone bruise at the beginning of the season.

I'm also unclear about what more Joe could have done to earn minutes because he played as well as anyone could have in the preseason - he literally led the NBA in Pelton's preseason WARP metric.

I'm not even saying that he should be the primary focus on our offense and should be getting 20+ minutes a game - I just want to see him get on the floor every game for some time. Joe's on pace to get something like 500 minutes this year, which seems way too low to me. I’m also sure that we can agree that he should be coming into 28 point wire to wire blowouts sooner than 4:30 left in the 4th quarter, when Tobias and Seth were both still in the game for whatever reason (and Doc brought Embiid back in with 7 minutes left up 24). Joe and Reed both should have gotten twice the minutes they did last night, which is a big deal when they’re not getting into games on a nightly basis.

[Sixerscan]

I’d have to go and look at all of the tape in the other games to fully recollect what happened in those, but I watched and analyzed every single Joe possession in the 4 minute sequence in the Brooklyn game, and I believe the team had him involved in exactly one offensive possession. I think that sole possession was a quick 3 off a Niang DHO screen, and he easily got off a solid attempt. Every other possession, he was just parked in the corner.

At least in that game, that is not Joe struggling to get open. If his role is designed to sit in the corner and wait for an open look, it’s more on his teammates to get him the open look (and I’m not suggesting he can’t do things to help himself out more like Danny Green might).

However, it’s a pretty big waste of his offensive talent to just park him in the corner on nearly all of his possessions. It’s on the coach to make better use of his talents and draw up plays to get him a bit more involved in the gameplan, especially when he’s shown the ability to move around off ball and get a huge volume of 3s off.

He would definitely be better with a real point guard that could find him. That's not the situation with this team though.

Coaches don't build offenses to maximize late 2nd round picks that haven't done anything in the league yet. He's gonna have to carve out his role just like Shake, Korkmaz and Niang have during their careers.

I'm intrigued by him longer term but I don't think playing 11 guys is good for anyone and right now with this roster I don't see who I would want to take out of the rotation for him. Take Shake or Korkmaz out and there isn't enough ball handling, Thybulle there isn't enough defense, Niang or Drummond there isn't enough size.

I mean Duncan Robinson, Talen Horton-Tucker, and Terance Mann are all recent counterexamples on championship aspiring teams from the last couple seasons - guys that were second round picks that did very little in their first season but were given a significantly more substantial role in year two without a great track record. You can add Shake to that list too, because the only reason he didn't get more minutes sooner in his second season was because he had a bone bruise at the beginning of the season.

I'm also unclear about what more Joe could have done to earn minutes because he played as well as anyone could have in the preseason - he literally led the NBA in Pelton's preseason WARP metric.

I'm not even saying that he should be the primary focus on our offense and should be getting 20+ minutes a game - I just want to see him get on the floor every game for some time. Joe's on pace to get something like 500 minutes this year, which seems way too low to me. I’m also sure that we can agree that he should be coming into 28 point wire to wire blowouts sooner than 4:30 left in the 4th quarter, when Tobias and Seth were both still in the game for whatever reason (and Doc brought Embiid back in with 7 minutes left up 24). Joe and Reed both should have gotten twice the minutes they did last night, which is a big deal when they’re not getting into games on a nightly basis.

Obviously some second round picks get rotation minutes, that was in response to the idea that Doc was "wasting his talents" by not running plays for him. And it's not like he didn't get a chance to prove himself in a regular season setting, he got the first stretch of the season to be in the rotation with Shake out. He was obviously the least effective of the guys in the rotation, so when Shake came back he was out of the rotation. If he showed out like Duncan Robinson did when he got a shot or even like Furkan did early on this year maybe he wouldn't be riding the bench right now. It's not completely his fault as we have discussed, but now he has to wait for another opportunity. I'm sure a wing will miss some time at some point and he'll get his chances.