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There’s an article from SixersFrontOffice. They’re saying Jimmy and our team doesn’t see eye to eye. Jimmy sounds like he’s an old school guy on both ends. Weird if you ask me.. when he plays heavy team defense and prefers ISO and PnR on offense.

I think in the next month and a half (maybe 2 months) we will have a clearer vision on what our team will look like moving forward. I could see Butler jumping ship if Brett stays (or even if he goes to be honest).

I'm still not hitching my wagon to Butler for the max on the tail end of his career. Still not happy about that trade.

Butler has openly said he believes the group we have is special. He's been a great signing and I'm confident he will stay If the FO offer him a decent deal

I love the Butler trade, it's better than the Harris trade. Saric really isn't a very good player and he was a depreciating asset that we weren't going to re-sign. So we pretty much had to trade him this season. Covington has value, but he has little upside in getting better. Given that we were up against the wall and likely would have struck out again this summer on star free agents, it was the right call and right trade at the time.

Harris however, emptied far more of our war chest in terms of value. We gave away our best and promising bench player who has starting sniper potential at SG. We gave away the Miami pick. Yes, Harris is younger, but he's not as good as Butler and will require a max contract.

The Sixers have to keep both of them, and they will end up keeping both of them unless they get word that Kawhi or Durant or someone else better wants to come here in free agency. Otherwise, they will max both. People will knock it, but they shouldn't. We are going to be up against the cap soon anyway and have limited maneuverability, might as well be cap strapped with Harris and Butler than without them. Because without them, we will just spend the money on mediocre role players(which we can fill in yearly with the MLE anyway) and pretty much hitch our wagon to Simmons and Embiid being the guys to lead us to a championship. One dude who gets hurt a lot and the other who has no jumper.

They will and should keep both. The question is will Brett be the one coaching them and can a coach get more out of them?

At this point.. it’s wiser to keep Butler and Jimmy over Brett. Plan B is brighter on the later one.

Can someone explain how the tax would be If we sign Tobias and Jimmy, and then let JJ go for potentially a cheaper guy like Lamb, Bullock, Ross or KCP? Would that keep us under the tax?

76ciology wrote:There’s an article from SixersFrontOffice. They’re saying Jimmy and our team doesn’t see eye to eye. Jimmy sounds like he’s an old school guy on both ends. Weird if you ask me.. when he plays heavy team defense and prefers ISO and PnR on offense.

He also left the Bulls saying he didn't like the new style of Fred Hoiberg.

“Everybody knows me and Fred had some riff-raff,” said Butler, who spent the final two of his six seasons in Chicago with Hoiberg but was reunited (via trade) with former Bulls coach and current Timberwolves coach Tom Thibodeau in late June. “We didn’t agree on many things. And I think eventually, everybody was like, ‘Yo, they’re either going to build the team around Jimmy, or they’re going to go the route with Fred, the up-and-down, shoot a lot of threes (style).

Nothing indicates that his point of view has changed since 2017, in fact, per 100 possessions he has shot the fewest three pointers since he's become a starter in the NBA.
If he doesn't prove in the PO that he has two more gears left in him on the defensive end, I don't see the point of retaining him.

Tobias Harris is slumping at the offensive end, he's still a really good fit on that end.
However, being a really good complementary piece on the offensive end is not worth a 30% contract. That's only the case if you provide significant value on the defensive as well, like Klay Thompson for example. Tobias however, is a negative on that end. He physically looks capable of defending, but when you look closely you see so many botched rotations and poor perimeter defense.

Kolkmania wrote:Tobias Harris is slumping at the offensive end, he's still a really good fit on that end.
However, being a really good complementary piece on the offensive end is not worth a 30% contract. That's only the case if you provide significant value on the defensive as well, like Klay Thompson for example. Tobias however, is a negative on that end. He physically looks capable of defending, but when you look closely you see so many botched rotations and poor perimeter defense.

He’s actually pretty good on his rotations. He is second on the team with the amount of shots challenged per game. What he lacks is deflections.

76ciology wrote:There’s an article from SixersFrontOffice. They’re saying Jimmy and our team doesn’t see eye to eye. Jimmy sounds like he’s an old school guy on both ends. Weird if you ask me.. when he plays heavy team defense and prefers ISO and PnR on offense.

Link?

76ciology wrote:

Kolkmania wrote:Tobias Harris is slumping at the offensive end, he's still a really good fit on that end.
However, being a really good complementary piece on the offensive end is not worth a 30% contract. That's only the case if you provide significant value on the defensive as well, like Klay Thompson for example. Tobias however, is a negative on that end. He physically looks capable of defending, but when you look closely you see so many botched rotations and poor perimeter defense.

He’s actually pretty good on his rotations. He is second on the team with the amount of shots challenged per game. What he lacks is deflections.

Shots challenged (certainly per game numbers) doesn't say much to me tbh, I generally value that stat only for centers. I feel that his rotations are generally a step late, which either results in a three point shot or a poor closeout.

PhillyPhilly wrote:Can someone explain how the tax would be If we sign Tobias and Jimmy, and then let JJ go for potentially a cheaper guy like Lamb, Bullock, Ross or KCP? Would that keep us under the tax?

Depends on how much JJ is going to ask for. Will he sign a more reasonable deal now that he's been overpaid for 2 years?

It's very possible for the Sixers to be able to sign Tobias and Jimmy and still stay under the tax next year, as long as you're okay with a short bench again. It's years after that, when Ben's extension kicks in, where the tax bill is going to get very high, very quickly.

He doesn't fit on the court, he's an a-hole that coaches and teammates struggle with, he won't last through the next contract. It's a no-brainer. Let him walk.

We payed a rental price for Jimmy, so who cares if he was only a rental?

- let Jimmy walk
- fire Brett Brown (hire Jay Wright)
- explore moving Ben Simmons for a scorer that can shoot (Beal, Booker, Lillard)

Kolkmania wrote:Tobias Harris is slumping at the offensive end, he's still a really good fit on that end.
However, being a really good complementary piece on the offensive end is not worth a 30% contract. That's only the case if you provide significant value on the defensive as well, like Klay Thompson for example. Tobias however, is a negative on that end. He physically looks capable of defending, but when you look closely you see so many botched rotations and poor perimeter defense.

He's not good defensively. And the Clippers valued him at 4 years 80M, which sounds about where his top end should be. Now how much higher than that will the Sixers have to go now that they've provided Tobias and his agent some leverage?

Kobblehead wrote:- let Jimmy walk
- fire Brett Brown (hire Jay Wright)
- explore moving Ben Simmons for a scorer that can shoot (Beal, Booker, Lillard)

I'd prefer to keep Jimmy since he's actually capable of impacting the outcome of a game. Tobias is the one who we should let walk.

Agree with everything else you said.

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ankle420breaker wrote:

Kobblehead wrote:- let Jimmy walk
- fire Brett Brown (hire Jay Wright)
- explore moving Ben Simmons for a scorer that can shoot (Beal, Booker, Lillard)

I'd prefer to keep Jimmy since he's actually capable of impacting the outcome of a game. Tobias is the one who we should let walk.

Agree with everything else you said.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

They could let both Jimmy and Tobias walk (plus everyone else) and have 57.5M in cap room.

I'm not overly interested in either north of 30M per. But given the choice between the two at that money, I take Jimmy. If Tobias is significantly cheaper, then I keep Tobias.

Tobias is the better theoretical fit, if his Clipper shooting percentages were real. Of course, Jimmy could be the new PG and allow you to shop Ben for a nice return.

Just for argument's sake let's say you can only have one or the other. Would you rather have Jimmy at 5-180 or Tobias at 5-150?

Now let's change those numbers and say would you rather have Jimmy at 5-150, or Tobias at 5-125?

I'm just uninterested in any contract where Jimmy Butler in ages 30-35 is eating large percentages of our cap. His durability was so poor in his 20s, there's a virtual guarantee that his next contract will be an albatross.

Kobblehead wrote:I'm just uninterested in any contract where Jimmy Butler in ages 30-35 is eating large percentages of our cap. His durability was so poor in his 20s, there's a virtual guarantee that his next contract will be an albatross.

The guy is 29 years old. The Rockets just gave Chris Paul a four year deal at age 32 despite having injury problems. Jimmy is our closer, getting rid of him would be utterly stupid and none of yall who want him gone are naming a compentent replacement either. So I'll ask yall again. WHO REPLACES HARRIS AND JIMMY IF WE LET THEM WALK?