JOEL EMBIID 2023 NBA MVP

[the_process]

Dup post.

[VDT]

People are trying to overanalyze it too much imo. Yes, the fit was not there a lot of the times and the team was not necessarily super talented. But if the most you have reached in the postseason, as an MVP level player, is the second round, it is almost always your fault, at least partly. The main issues, again imo, are Embiid's lack of health, and his shortcomings, as an offensive hub. A lot of great players have not been lucky enough to play for a super team, but they a) demonstrate consistently good performance in the playoffs, and b) when they get their chance they seize it, be it a final appearance or winning the title. Embiid is playing in an era without juggernaut type teams, in fact since 2018 the champion changes every year. Embiid had his chances to do something, but it appears that against good defenses he shrinks way more than expected for a player of his caliber, he also seems to be part of teams with a loser mentality (other than 2019) that often underperform (e.g. 2021), which as the leader of the team is partly his fault. People can site whatever advanced stats they want, but it is hard to argue against 10 years of experience and such a marked lack of postseason results.

[Mik317]

People have made their minds up already so its a waste of time to really discuss at this stage

Jo is either an unfailable godking let down by his **** team or a big time loser who will never win no matter what.

Its an exhausting conversation at this stage that I just avoid talking about him any more lol. The worst part is that it is just simply too late regardless of where one would stand so we will never really know. The injuries have caught up to him and he has spent too long whether due to team building or his own stubborness playing a certain way and its too late to teach an old dog new tricks lol.

As with most things in life the answer lies somewhere in the middle. The Teams have had some major flaws structurally imo. Most teams find a way to not only elevate their stars best traits but also hide their worst traits. Jokic is not a great rim protector so they surrounded him with athletes who can and POA defenders who make getting to the rim harder. Jokic is an insane passer, so they again surround him with athletes who can run and enough shooters as well. The years they lacked a shooter or athlete or Murray...they lost despite Jokic putting up insane stats. Jokic ALSO however, despite being a fellow chunklord takes care of his body, has an adaptable game, and while plays the nonchalant gimmick is a firey mofo who wants to win. Jo did not take care of his body, wants to be a giant Kobe, and his firey mofoness is often aimed internally which leads to the woe is me ****. So again both sides are at fault here at the end of the day.....

I do pushback against the narrative that Jo has been awful in the playoffs tho. Has not been perfect of course but sans Boston game 7, and a few stinkers against the Raptors...I think its been overblown a bit and most of our playoff failures HAS been on other players/coaches deciding to play like they got bodyswapped with me lol. BUT AGAIN game 7 against Boston, zero points against Toronto, and the late game turnovers and fatigue...injury or no also falls on Biid to be fair.

See it is a nuanced situation in which context plays a bigger role than just " he sucks or not" imo.

BUT this is the internet in 2025 and idiots have no time for that lol

[stormi]

Blaming team construction for Joel's endgame tunnel vision that results in multiple turnovers and close games slipping away is myopia.

Joel has had help. Are his teams perfect? No. But how much of the problem is the role that Joel insists he should play? Almost all of it.

Yeah, I'll side with the #s.

There's an overwhelming amount of evidence that paint Embiid as one of the most floor tilting forces ever in the playoffs and in high leverage moments. The is undisputable.

The Sixers (mainly) and his health have let him down, more than anything to do with his game.

[stormi]

A snippet of Joel Embiid's legacy.

Playing in the playoffs on meniscus that's been worked and reworked and reworked so many times over that he could no longer jump. With a visibly repulsive traumatic response mechanism called Bells Palsy not allowing him to blink in synchronicity.

Watch on YouTube

And not just playing through these conditions, but dominating a series



and still being assassinated for it because he's the worlds easiest target. The rules work in reverse when it comes to Joel Embiid. Where other players would be celebrated, he gets torn down.

Sports aren't a meritocracy, they're about unpredictability and finite randomness in the moments of spontaneity, but the way people talk about him (especially his own fans)... Demonizing every aspect of his career, unwilling to acknowledge that he's a legendary basketball player that's been unfortunate with his help, health and situation he was drafted into is disappointing.

He joined a 10 win team, was the only reason they've been moderately relevant this century bar '01, and without him, have seen his 'championship rosters' be catastrophic in his absence.

2024: the 76ers were the best team in the East on 60 win pacing-- Joel Embiid was on track to be the unanimous MVP with arguably the greatest scoring season ever. Taken his game to another peak following 2023 before Kuminga landed on his knee-- to Charlotte Hornets pacing to have us plummet into the play-in.

2025: the 76ers were quite literally in Cooper Flagg stakes.

All he has ever done is save the sinking ship that is the Philadelphia 76ers because it's his job and I won't ever take it for granted. Like Mik said, people have long since made their minds up about what or who Joel Embiid so there's no real reason typing back and forth and getting worked up over this topic.

For me however he is easily my favorite basketball player of all time I won't take the rest of his career for granted. One of the best to ever lace 'em up.

[stormi]

People are trying to overanalyze it too much imo. Yes, the fit was not there a lot of the times and the team was not necessarily super talented. But if the most you have reached in the postseason, as an MVP level player, is the second round, it is almost always your fault, at least partly. The main issues, again imo, are Embiid's lack of health, and his shortcomings, as an offensive hub. A lot of great players have not been lucky enough to play for a super team, but they a) demonstrate consistently good performance in the playoffs, and b) when they get their chance they seize it, be it a final appearance or winning the title. Embiid is playing in an era without juggernaut type teams, in fact since 2018 the champion changes every year. Embiid had his chances to do something, but it appears that against good defenses he shrinks way more than expected for a player of his caliber, he also seems to be part of teams with a loser mentality (other than 2019) that often underperform (e.g. 2021), which as the leader of the team is partly his fault. People can site whatever advanced stats they want, but it is hard to argue against 10 years of experience and such a marked lack of postseason results.

It's not even about playing with 'superteams', it's about honesty.

In an era of positional flexibility and versatility. In an era where every championship team had multiple switchable wings, Joel Embiid- outside maybe an 8 month stretch in 2019- played his entire career to-date without a teammate at least 6'6 that could hit a three and defend. That's inexcusable.

We were so starved for competent 2-way wing play that this fanbase was in tatters when a 40 year old Nic Batum made the decision to return to LA in free agency.

[VDT]

People are trying to overanalyze it too much imo. Yes, the fit was not there a lot of the times and the team was not necessarily super talented. But if the most you have reached in the postseason, as an MVP level player, is the second round, it is almost always your fault, at least partly. The main issues, again imo, are Embiid's lack of health, and his shortcomings, as an offensive hub. A lot of great players have not been lucky enough to play for a super team, but they a) demonstrate consistently good performance in the playoffs, and b) when they get their chance they seize it, be it a final appearance or winning the title. Embiid is playing in an era without juggernaut type teams, in fact since 2018 the champion changes every year. Embiid had his chances to do something, but it appears that against good defenses he shrinks way more than expected for a player of his caliber, he also seems to be part of teams with a loser mentality (other than 2019) that often underperform (e.g. 2021), which as the leader of the team is partly his fault. People can site whatever advanced stats they want, but it is hard to argue against 10 years of experience and such a marked lack of postseason results.

It's not even about playing with 'superteams', it's about honesty.

In an era of positional flexibility and versatility. In an era where every championship team had multiple switchable wings, Joel Embiid- outside maybe an 8 month stretch in 2019- played his entire career to-date without a teammate at least 6'6 that could hit a three and defend. That's inexcusable.

We were so starved for competent 2-way wing play that this fanbase was in tatters when a 40 year old Nic Batum made the decision to return to LA in free agency.

Embiid had an all star wing in 2019 and he averaged 18 ppg on 37% for the series. Yes, Gasol was a good defender but if you want to lead your team to the title you need to be effective even against good defender. The same for his bad series, at least offensively, against Boston and Miami.

I am not saying that things couldnt have worked out, Giannis had also received a lot of criticism before winning the title. However, in the end you cant change history, Embiid hasnt really proved much in the postseason, so placing all or most of the blame on his teammates is misguided i think. If you are a tier 1 star you should be able to perform even with mediocre supporting cast and you should be able to move beyond the second round after so many years, especially in a conference that mediocre teams like the 2021 Hawks have done so.

[Mik317]

Toronto was Biid first playoff run of his career. They also should have kept Jimmy and that team in general. You point to Giannis...he failed until they got Jrue and Middleton randomly turned into MJ in the clutch. He also went through wars with the same supporting cast as well. Hasn't made it out of the first in a while tho.

This does not absolve Biid of his own shortcomings either btw. Again bad shape injuries or not. Also think like Giannis' bulldozing game Biid's grifting game also doesn't scale up as well...in which having more scalable teammates to make it harder to build the wall or avoid the grift in our case would help as well.

[76ciology]

Health is a major factor in Embiid’s shortcomings, but it isn’t the whole story.

Whether it’s poor basketball IQ or just a lack of feel, he doesn’t know how to pace himself. Too often he goes full throttle early and has nothing left in closing moments. His decision making is questionable, like that reckless backboard pass in the Knicks series, and for a supposed heliocentric hub, he struggles to read defenses at a high level.

I also question his mental toughness. He doesn’t strike me as someone built to thrive under extreme pressure. His recent interviews even project fragility, maybe a product of his personality, maybe of life events, but either way, it doesn’t reflect confidence.

Roster construction makes things harder. I’ve always said if you swapped Embiid for Giannis or Jokic, the Sixers probably win 1–2 titles by now or at the very least make the ECF. With Embiid, it feels like you need two championship-caliber teams.. one that can win with him, and another that can win without him. That means your 2nd best player has to be a true alpha who can carry the team (like Harden did in Game 1 vs. Boston). Most of the time, that type is a perimeter star, and then you’re asking that perimeter star to slow down his game to match Embiid’s tempo. A slower pace lets defenses set up, easier to close out on shooters, and does not empower a perimeter star.

The stats also don’t capture the psychological effect. This recent article nailed it, teammates never know if he’s playing, or in what condition. Even when he suits up, there are nights he’s “spiritually absent,” and you can see the team scrambling.. do we still feed him? Can he protect the rim? Can we rely on him at all? And honestly, he can be a diva if you dont run it the way he wants it to be.

On paper, he’s a great player, the numbers prove it. But you have to ask what the numbers look like when it really matters? When he’s facing non-opening quarter minutes when his defenders usually tries not to get into foul trouble and the refs dont allow much physicality, on those games where he’s not defended by Mason Plumlee or Cody Zeller, on real playoff teams in the playoffs not the fringe ones like the Brooklyn Nets.

And after around a decade of watching him, the eye test and lived experience tell us (atleast for me) the full story is a lot more complicated.

[SixersSince82]

The Organization and the star player have both let each other down. It really doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

[elchengue20]

Nothing new under the Sun. Joel is ultra talented, but quite mentally weak and a bad leader.

He was never able to mentally make the leap from rising young Superstar to established Superstar fighting for a championship. The expectations, the pressure, and what your teammates and the organization expect of you escalate to a new level of demands, and he never showed any ability to adapt or be comfortable with it.

Add to that a mediocre organization that hasn't known how to handle it, and the result is the disaster we're seeing right now.

[Peak Brunson]

Yeah to be clear, I never said it's only Embiid's fault, it's evident he wasn't handled properly, this was a guy with very low experience prior to the NBA, he needed help to grow as a player, instead what the team did was throw him out there and expect him to be the franchise player from the get go, that's exactly what happened. He needed a veteran and better coaching to help him improve his fundamentals. The team never provided him that, so he said **** it I'll copy James Soften FT gimmick and train offensive moves myself.