Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[Sixerscan]

It's not that simple.

[Unbreakable99]

Ingram will be the better pro. Hands down. Sure Simmons will give you some ESPN top 10 highlights just like Blake Griffin, but I want to win championships and I'm sure the Sixers do too

And Simmons will get us that championship. Like I said. I really like Ingram. I just don't think it's close and Simmons is easily the better prospect. I just can't believe this is really a serious debate. Simmons is the future. You can have a 6'9 point forward facilitating. His shot will get better. He is a positionless player. He can easily switch onto a player playing against small ball or guard a PF down low. He will never be on a mismatch where he looks out of place. You don't tank for Ingram. You tank for Simmons.

Simmons is definitely unique in certain areas of his game, but having an opportunity to take a guy who will be one of great scorers/shooters of his time(Ingram) who also happens to play a position where the Sixers are curently lacking, needs to be taken advantage of.

Yes Ingram can shoot and defend. I expect him to have a very good career. I think he will be better than Wiggins. I just don't think the gap is that close. Simmons can do a lot more than Ingram. Simmons is unselfish. Players like playing with him. If you look at what happened at LSU you would see his teammates were more selfish. I would see on multiple possessions his teammates not even looking to give him the ball because they were trying to get theirs. Simmons would pass them the ball but then they wouldn't even look at him again. It was just a bad situation at LSU.

Simmons is the type of star who can lure other stars to play with him because they know they will get the ball and be involved. Simmons is like LeBron in that he gets the whole team involved. He isn't just looking for his shot. Simmons has a very high basketball IQ. He knows the game. Simmons was born for this moment. He already had the hate of a superstar based on columns and some analysts who doubt him and rank Ingram ahead of him. You have Tim Legler talking up Ingram saying he knows he will be a good pro but can't say the same for Simmons lol. You have Barkley saying he would take Ingram. You have PJ Carlisemo saying he would take Ingram. This is just ridiculous on so many levels. The guy from draft express has done all he can to trash Simmons.

The bottom line is not one team would choose Ingram over Simmons. It's easy to say you will take Ingram from afar when you don't have to suffer any consequences if you do that but when you are on the clock and making the pick there is just no way you do that. Simmons is a transcendent player. It's not even a decision. It's an easy call. Simmons is the best player and is also a position of need so it's the best of both worlds for us. All this talk between Simmons and Ingram is just noise.

[Unbreakable99]

It's really simple.

X + Y = Superstar Wing

X = Intangibles (big time 2 way contributor)
Y = Great shooting

Both players already have X
Simmons has all around game + steals + rebounds
Ingram has freakish length/athleticism/skillset combo on offense + steals + blocks

Question really is who's more likely to be a great shooter.

THE UTMOST EVOLUTION OF A PLAYER IS IT'S SHOOTING. EVEN CENTERS EVOLVED INTO SHOOTERS. EVEN LBJ EVOLVED INTO A SHOOTER. EVEN RONDO IS FORCED TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.

And I do consider the possibility of Simmons improving his shot. But I think Ingram can be the better shooter between the two. I also think Ingram can be a good finisher around the rim with his freakish length and athleticism (if 40" vert in duke is true).

Really, the determining factor between those two is the shooting.

You go watch the NBA play-offs and it's nothing but a shooting contest (inside draw kickout) and rotation defense on the other end.

LeBron still struggles to shoot. Teams still dare him to shoot jumpers and go under his screens and back off of him. LeBron still crushes them.

[Kobblehead]

Why are tangible things like playing both ends of the floor and having specific skillsets being cited as "intangibles"?

[76ciology]

It's really simple.

X + Y = Superstar Wing

X = Intangibles (big time 2 way contributor)
Y = Great shooting

Both players already have X
Simmons has all around game + steals + rebounds
Ingram has freakish length/athleticism/skillset combo on offense + steals + blocks

Question really is who's more likely to be a great shooter.

THE UTMOST EVOLUTION OF A PLAYER IS IT'S SHOOTING. EVEN CENTERS EVOLVED INTO SHOOTERS. EVEN LBJ EVOLVED INTO A SHOOTER. EVEN RONDO IS FORCED TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.

And I do consider the possibility of Simmons improving his shot. But I think Ingram can be the better shooter between the two. I also think Ingram can be a good finisher around the rim with his freakish length and athleticism (if 40" vert in duke is true).

Really, the determining factor between those two is the shooting.

You go watch the NBA play-offs and it's nothing but a shooting contest (inside draw kickout) and rotation defense on the other end.

LeBron still struggles to shoot. Teams still dare him to shoot jumpers and go under his screens and back off of him. LeBron still crushes them.

You see that triple threat zone? He is still shooting 35% on that area. People doesn't do Rondo level of sagging off with LBJ. They know LBJ can knock down that shot.

On that triple threat position at the left. He is shooting 35% on threes. Then 43% on mid range. 68% in the left side of the paint. He's right handed so people usually force him left. On the right, I'd imagine he'll just have an easy way to the basket.

[76ciology]

Why are tangible things like playing both ends of the floor and having specific skillsets being cited as "intangibles"?

Can you hold it? Because if you can't hold it, it means intangible.

[Kobblehead]

What? Are you being serious right now or sarcastic?

[76ciology]

What? Are you being serious right now or sarcastic?

You are trying to be specific on definition, so I'm giving it to you. Now, intangible by definition is something you can't touch.

Message boards are here for public opinion. Your style is when you dislike someone's opinion, you try to indirect attack a person's credibility.

I'd rather you prove why a wing player can be a superstar without shooting and how shooting is not an important part of basketball nowadays.

You know me, we have agreed and disagreed on some issues (mostly on Wiggins lol). And I'm very much open to change my opinion and admit my mistakes if I think I'm wrong.

[Kobblehead]

Intangibles are things that can't be measured or quantified. Like determination, leadership, perseverance, etc.

Rebounding, playing defense, distributing, shooting, scoring, blocking shots, generating steals, arm length, shoes size, vertical leap, etc are ALL tangibles.

[phantom84]

It's really simple.

X + Y = Superstar Wing

X = Intangibles (big time 2 way contributor)
Y = Great shooting

Both players already have X
Simmons has all around game + steals + rebounds
Ingram has freakish length/athleticism/skillset combo on offense + steals + blocks

Question really is who's more likely to be a great shooter.

THE UTMOST EVOLUTION OF A PLAYER IS IT'S SHOOTING. EVEN CENTERS EVOLVED INTO SHOOTERS. EVEN LBJ EVOLVED INTO A SHOOTER. EVEN RONDO IS FORCED TO LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.

And I do consider the possibility of Simmons improving his shot. But I think Ingram can be the better shooter between the two. I also think Ingram can be a good finisher around the rim with his freakish length and athleticism (if 40" vert in duke is true).

Really, the determining factor between those two is the shooting.

You go watch the NBA play-offs and it's nothing but a shooting contest (inside draw kickout) and rotation defense on the other end.

LeBron still struggles to shoot. Teams still dare him to shoot jumpers and go under his screens and back off of him. LeBron still crushes them.

Not even Lebron, just look at Westbrook horrendous shooting number this year. It doesn't stop him from being one of the most dominant player in the league due to his ability to dribble penetrate and dish. Can you imagine a Simmons and Embiid PNR. Those two duo will set the NBA on fire (granted if Embiid is healthy).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/shooting/2016/

[76ciology]

Intangibles are things that can't be measure or quantified. Like determination, leadership, perseverance, etc.

Rebounding, playing defense, distributing, shooting, scoring, blocking shots, generating steals, etc are ALL tangibles.

Your understanding of the term is laughable.

Point taken.

Although I'm referring to Ingrams combination of elite length + skillset + shooting and Simmons' all around game. I don't know if there are any measurements for that. But anyway if you insist.

X = Tangibles
Y = shooting
X+Y = superstar wing

[phiphan]

First, I disagree that Simmons is penned in as a WING. To me, he's best used as a power forward (even moreso when he's paired with Embiid). But are these charts that much different considering that you're comparing a 20 year old to a 31 year old?

[Kobblehead]

The formula still is flawed. Shooting is a tangible.

[76ciology]

First, I disagree that Simmons is penned in as a WING. To me, he's best used as a power forward (even moreso when he's paired with Embiid). But are these charts that much different considering that you're comparing a 20 year old to a 31 year old who is also one of the greatest players of all time?

Look at the left side of the court.

He shoots 35% on 3s. 43% on mid range. Then almost 70%.

He's a dominant right handed player, so he'll just massacre his way to the basket when you force him right.

[Kobblehead]

There is no set way to formulate what a superstar wing is.

LeBron is an all-encompassing player that can't shoot.
KD is a shooting scorer that doesn't distribute or defend at a high level.

Both are superstars.

[76ciology]

There is no set way to formulate what a superstar wing is.

LeBron is an all-encompassing player that can't shoot.
KD is a shooting scorer that doesn't distribute or defend at a high level.

Both are superstars.

With all due respect, do you think you can be a superstar primary ball handler wing nowadays without a jumper?

[phiphan]

Look at the left side of the court.

He shoots 35% on 3s. 43% on mid range. Then almost 70%.

He's a dominant right handed player, so he'll just massacre his way to the basket when you force him right.

Yeah, I'm looking at the left side of the court, are you? Simmons and LeBron are remarkably similar save for the 3-pointers. To buy into the idea that the 3-pointer is a huge difference maker one would have to accept your premise that Simmons is a WING, which is not necessarily the case. Blake Griffin is a better comparison in my view.

[76ciology]

Look at the left side of the court.

He shoots 35% on 3s. 43% on mid range. Then almost 70%.

He's a dominant right handed player, so he'll just massacre his way to the basket when you force him right.

Yeah, I'm looking at the left side of the court, are you? Simmons and LeBron are remarkably similar save for the 3-pointers. To buy into the idea that the 3-pointer is a huge difference maker one would have to accept your premise that Simmons is a WING, which is not necessarily the case. Blake Griffin is a better comparison in my view.

Blake and Giannis are good comparisons. Like Simmons, if both players become good shooters, they're likely to take their game into next level. Possible superstars.

[Unbreakable99]

There is no set way to formulate what a superstar wing is.

LeBron is an all-encompassing player that can't shoot.
KD is a shooting scorer that doesn't distribute or defend at a high level.

Both are superstars.

With all due respect, do you think you can be a superstar primary ball handler wing nowadays without a jumper?

LeBron. Didn't LeBron rank last in 3 point percentage this year or something close to that? This is his 13th year in the league and he still struggles to shoot.

[Mik317]

35% isn't exactly great.... Plus for long stretches this season he was shooting under 30%....

Again Simmons is not BronBron... But if you had a choice you'd prefer Bron to launch 3s. He doesn't because he is fast and strong.

Lost in the sauce is the idea that Ingram will get stronger whereas Simmons apparently won't. Team Ingram doesn't even seem to give the idea that perhaps Simmons also will get bigger and stronger.

And regardless, with nba spacing and the lack of zone. Teams won't be able to shut him down as easy as they did at LSU. And if Bryan is worth a damn he will make sure he is surrounded by more than one shooter.... Which opens up even more space.

Look at Wiggins. A guy people swore wouldn't be able to get to the rim based off of his struggles at Kansas... The extra space and lack of zone opens ups a lot of extra room.

Simmons will need to get better as a shooter... No doubt. But people are exaggerating a bit by acting like he won't be able to still get to the rim. Written and MCW couldn't shoot either but they still had nights where they got inside. Simmons is bigger and a better finisher and just as fast....plus he will have that first overall pick get calls tax too.

People need to have a more open mind. Yes Ingram is younger... But people really need to stop acting like Simmons is 24 and a finished product.