Welcome Tobias Harris

76ciology · Post #1001 » by **76ciology** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:13 am

Tobias “Not a Championship Caliber Player” Harris

Watch on YouTube

Bought into his role.
Plays on both ends.

54th in RPM 2.07
63rd in RAPTORS 2.1
1.6spg .6bpg 14ppg 39% from 3s 56TS%

Spoiler:

Iverson Armband · Post #1002 » by **Iverson Armband** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:14 am

He was excellent tonight.

the_process · Post #1003 » by **the_process** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:06 pm

How do you -1 a post? :lol:

spikeslovechild · Post #1004 » by **spikeslovechild** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:11 am

I have always been sort of the lone voice who doesn't want to move Harris for spare parts. I want to move him but it's hard to do so with his salary while still making the team better.

Samson · Post #1005 » by **Samson** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:47 pm

The hate on Tobias Harris on here is ridiculous.

He could play on my team anytime, any day.

He's my man.

spikeslovechild · Post #1006 » by **spikeslovechild** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:47 pm

Samson wrote:The hate on Tobias Harris on here is ridiculous.

He could play on my team anytime, any day.

He's my man.

He's a good player but nowhere near worth his salary he's essentially Kuzma but getting paid 37m.

The question has always been how you move him while improving the team.

mjkvol · Post #1007 » by **mjkvol** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:00 pm

76ciology wrote:Tobias “Not a Championship Caliber Player” Harris

Deliver anything close to this level of play in money situations in May/June/July and we'll have something to discuss.

76ciology · Post #1008 » by **76ciology** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:39 am

mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:Tobias “Not a Championship Caliber Player” Harris

Deliver anything close to this level of play in money situations in May/June/July and we'll have something to discuss.

Playoffs
20-21 21.8 on 56TS% +2.3BPM 1.9 deflections
21-22 16.9ppg on 59TS% +3.4BPM 2.5 deflections
*always been a plus defender except for the bubble

Im not saying he’s an allstar or he’s untouchable.

Hell, i dont think anyone has posted more Tobias Harris trade than i do.

And Im all in for a double big line-up, which trends toward replacing someone like Reed over Tobi (or Tucker)

Its Ben’s ALL NBA status and Tobi’s contract that lead us to be blinded for what they truly are.

76ciology · Post #1009 » by **76ciology** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:55 am

In alternate universe, we didn’t trade for Tobias.

We paid Dario Saric and Robert Covington, who are now probably playing less minutes than George Niang, for around $20M each.

And in another alternate universe, we paid $35-40M for the oft injured Brogdon (averaged 48 games played in the last 3 seasons; just a mere 6th man now) and for DLo (who’s shooting 41-43FG%).

mjkvol · Post #1010 » by **mjkvol** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:43 pm

76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:Tobias “Not a Championship Caliber Player” Harris

Deliver anything close to this level of play in money situations in May/June/July and we'll have something to discuss.

Playoffs
20-21 21.8 on 56TS% +2.3BPM 1.9 deflections
21-22 16.9ppg on 59TS% +3.4BPM 2.5 deflections
*always been a plus defender except for the bubble

This belongs in the Stats Can Be Deceptive Hall of Fame.

mjkvol · Post #1011 » by **mjkvol** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:49 pm

76ciology wrote:In alternate universe, we didn’t trade for Tobias.

We paid Dario Saric and Robert Covington, who are now probably playing less minutes than George Niang, for around $20M each.

And in another alternate universe, we paid $35-40M for the oft injured Brogdon (averaged 48 games played in the last 3 seasons; just a mere 6th man now) and for DLo (who’s shooting 41-43FG%).

In a third alternate universe we fired Brand and Brown, signed Butler, let Harris walk, traded Simmons for useful pieces, won a championship, and are annually one of the favorites to get to the Finals.

I think I'll opt in to the third alternate universe.

76ciology · Post #1012 » by **76ciology** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:22 pm

mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:In alternate universe, we didn’t trade for Tobias.

We paid Dario Saric and Robert Covington, who are now probably playing less minutes than George Niang, for around $20M each.

And in another alternate universe, we paid $35-40M for the oft injured Brogdon (averaged 48 games played in the last 3 seasons; just a mere 6th man now) and for DLo (who’s shooting 41-43FG%).

In a third alternate universe we fired Brand and Brown, signed Butler, let Harris walk, traded Simmons for useful pieces, won a championship, and are annually one of the favorites to get to the Finals.

I think I'll opt in to the third alternate universe.

Yes i also would love that!

"We'll say that even going back to, I mean, the reason we signed Al (Horford) and got rid of Jimmy (Butler), which I still think was a mistake, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands, and that's the decision they made” - Embiid on the JJ podcast

But the 76ers apparently viewed their choice as Butler vs. Ben Simmons.

Simmons was Philadelphia’s point guard and prided himself on holding that leading role. However, the 76ers – who acquired Butler in a trade with the Timberwolves during the 2018-19 season – were better when running their offense through Butler, especially in the playoffs. The friction was palpable.

Ramona Shelburne of ESPN:

Eventually it got to the point the organization felt it needed to choose between them, according to team sources, and it chose Simmons.

On some level, the decision was defensible. Simmons was just 22 and already a star. Butler was 30 with heavy mileage.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/05/12/report-76ers-felt-they-must-choose-between-ben-simmons-and-jimmy-butler/amp/

Read on Twitter

Bum Adebayo · Post #1013 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:38 pm

Yeah ssooo worried that it was better to choose Bum Simmons instead of Jimmy Butler, in reality Sixers org thought about Butler as BUTler.

Zumramania · Post #1014 » by **Zumramania** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:52 pm

And if you continue down that Twitter thread:

6. Al Horford is an important part of this convo. I know Butler called out the Tobias Harris contract yesterday, but I think that’s unfair. It's really Horford who the Sixers chose over Butler.

7. The Sixers believed Embiid would miss at least 20 games/season, meaning they'd need a fill-in at center. And they felt Horford could do a good job defending Giannis in the playoffs.

8. In terms of Embiid: he’s said multiple times that letting Butler go was a mistake. But my understanding is that at the time he was not insisting the team bring Butler back. This wasn’t an example of him demanding something and the front office ignoring it.

9. One fun anecdote: upon being told by the Sixers that they didn’t want to pay Butler, apparently Butler’s agent, Bernie Lee, went on a rant to Josh Harris and told him he was making a huge mistake.

10. Lee told Harris he was breaking up a championship team, that he was putting Simmons in a position to fail and that he’d end up having to trade him and that he was wasting years of Embiid’s prime.

Whether we'd like to admit it or not, I think that our FO was way more similar to the Knicks than to Bucks or Celtics. We can criticize Morey (I think most of the problems come from the fact that Doc still has his job), but he's leagues above these morons.

mjkvol · Post #1015 » by **mjkvol** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:01 pm

Zumramania wrote:Whether we'd like to admit it or not, I think that our FO was way more similar to the Knicks than to Bucks or Celtics. We can criticize Morey (I think most of the problems come from the fact that Doc still has his job), but he's leagues above these morons.

The criticism of Morey is off base given the situation he inherited with one huge exception - retaining Rivers and even bringing in players to placate him. If this group fails to seriously compete for a championship, which is a very safe bet right now, it will be that decision that will define Morey's time here.

mjkvol · Post #1016 » by **mjkvol** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:04 pm

76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:In alternate universe, we didn’t trade for Tobias.

We paid Dario Saric and Robert Covington, who are now probably playing less minutes than George Niang, for around $20M each.

And in another alternate universe, we paid $35-40M for the oft injured Brogdon (averaged 48 games played in the last 3 seasons; just a mere 6th man now) and for DLo (who’s shooting 41-43FG%).

In a third alternate universe we fired Brand and Brown, signed Butler, let Harris walk, traded Simmons for useful pieces, won a championship, and are annually one of the favorites to get to the Finals.

I think I'll opt in to the third alternate universe.

Yes i also would love that!

Except that you keep taking both sides of the issue! You're boasting about Harris' playoff numbers one second, and then saying you wish he was gone the next.

76ciology · Post #1017 » by **76ciology** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:55 pm

mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
In a third alternate universe we fired Brand and Brown, signed Butler, let Harris walk, traded Simmons for useful pieces, won a championship, and are annually one of the favorites to get to the Finals.

I think I'll opt in to the third alternate universe.

Yes i also would love that!

Except that you keep taking both sides of the issue! You're boasting about Harris' playoff numbers one second, and then saying you wish he was gone the next.

Who wouldn’t want to get Jimmy for Tobias?

If im getting Tobias for Jaden McDaniels or Porzingis, sign me up.

I dont hate or am I a fan a particular player. Im willing to trade Embiid, Maxey or Tobias for the right amount of return. Im also willing to hold unto them because they are good players. I’ll praise them if they play well, i’ll call them our if they play poorly.

I’ve learned my lessons, I dont let my hate or fandom for a player blind me for what he is.

76ciology · Post #1018 » by **76ciology** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:02 pm

Zumramania wrote:And if you continue down that Twitter thread:

6. Al Horford is an important part of this convo. I know Butler called out the Tobias Harris contract yesterday, but I think that’s unfair. It's really Horford who the Sixers chose over Butler.

7. The Sixers believed Embiid would miss at least 20 games/season, meaning they'd need a fill-in at center. And they felt Horford could do a good job defending Giannis in the playoffs.

8. In terms of Embiid: he’s said multiple times that letting Butler go was a mistake. But my understanding is that at the time he was not insisting the team bring Butler back. This wasn’t an example of him demanding something and the front office ignoring it.

9. One fun anecdote: upon being told by the Sixers that they didn’t want to pay Butler, apparently Butler’s agent, Bernie Lee, went on a rant to Josh Harris and told him he was making a huge mistake.

10. Lee told Harris he was breaking up a championship team, that he was putting Simmons in a position to fail and that he’d end up having to trade him and that he was wasting years of Embiid’s prime.

Whether we'd like to admit it or not, I think that our FO was way more similar to the Knicks than to Bucks or Celtics. We can criticize Morey (I think most of the problems come from the fact that Doc still has his job), but he's leagues above these morons.

But to be fair, try to check threads back in 2017-2020 on how many here were blinded with how “special” Ben was.

Oh and Al was a good signing. You’re seeing it now. You want someone who can space the floor and help Biid protect the rim and grab boards. Someone who can be a reliable back-up C when Biid is sitting out games. Someone who can slowdown Giannis. That’s Al.

Al is what you envisioned or atleast what you need PJ Tucker to be.

Few want to remember.. but we looked like a contender and was on top of offseason to early to mid season power rankings back in 2019-2020. That high low play from Al to Biid was money, that we used it as one of our go to plays down the stretch. We were even able to beat the Bucks in some national televised game where Josh Rich was bombing 3s.

Beating Celts and Bucks

Watch on YouTube

spikeslovechild · Post #1019 » by **spikeslovechild** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:49 pm

76ciology wrote:
Zumramania wrote:And if you continue down that Twitter thread:

6. Al Horford is an important part of this convo. I know Butler called out the Tobias Harris contract yesterday, but I think that’s unfair. It's really Horford who the Sixers chose over Butler.

7. The Sixers believed Embiid would miss at least 20 games/season, meaning they'd need a fill-in at center. And they felt Horford could do a good job defending Giannis in the playoffs.

8. In terms of Embiid: he’s said multiple times that letting Butler go was a mistake. But my understanding is that at the time he was not insisting the team bring Butler back. This wasn’t an example of him demanding something and the front office ignoring it.

9. One fun anecdote: upon being told by the Sixers that they didn’t want to pay Butler, apparently Butler’s agent, Bernie Lee, went on a rant to Josh Harris and told him he was making a huge mistake.

10. Lee told Harris he was breaking up a championship team, that he was putting Simmons in a position to fail and that he’d end up having to trade him and that he was wasting years of Embiid’s prime.

Whether we'd like to admit it or not, I think that our FO was way more similar to the Knicks than to Bucks or Celtics. We can criticize Morey (I think most of the problems come from the fact that Doc still has his job), but he's leagues above these morons.

But to be fair, try to check threads back in 2017-2020 on how many here were blinded with how “special” Ben was.

Oh and Al was a good signing. You’re seeing it now. You want someone who can space the floor and help Biid protect the rim and grab boards. Someone who can be a reliable back-up C when Biid is sitting out games. Someone who can slowdown Giannis. That’s Al.

Al is what you envisioned or atleast what you need PJ Tucker to be.

Few want to remember.. but we looked like a contender and was on top of offseason to early to mid season power rankings back in 2019-2020. That high low play from Al to Biid was money, that we used it as one of our go to plays down the stretch. We were even able to beat the Bucks in some national televised game where Josh Rich was bombing 3s.

Beating Celts and Bucks

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I was one of those people. Of course I think we all thought Simmons would take a step forward which never happened.

I don't think a Butler-Simmons roster could co-exist and still don't. I don't really fault the FO for choosing Simmons over butler because I think without the benefit of hindsight we will have all killed them for making that choice we wanted to see how the Simmons situation played out we did and even though it didn't work I can't fault the FO for wanting to see it through.

I will fault them for bringing in Al and Richardson who were not the floor-spacer defensive stalwarts they were billed as. Also if you remember the goal wasn't Harris we wanted a premier FA like Kawhi or Lebron. Harris was a fallback.

mjkvol · Post #1020 » by **mjkvol** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:14 pm

76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Yes i also would love that!

Except that you keep taking both sides of the issue! You're boasting about Harris' playoff numbers one second, and then saying you wish he was gone the next.

Who wouldn’t want to get Jimmy for Tobias?

If im getting Tobias for Jaden McDaniels or Porzingis, sign me up.

I dont hate or am I a fan a particular player. Im willing to trade Embiid, Maxey or Tobias for the right amount of return. Im also willing to hold unto them because they are good players. I’ll praise them if they play well, i’ll call them our if they play poorly.

I’ve learned my lessons, I dont let my hate or fandom for a player blind me for what he is.

Listen, we've beaten this to death - it isn't "hate", it's the realization that this is not a guy that you win championships with him playing a major role. Simple as that.

Problem is that we're f***ked because Morey has played all our chips of any value, so we have to pretend after Harris has a couple of good early season games that the leopard is going to suddenly change his spots. What's the definition of insanity again?