Sixers Offseason Thread Part 3

[Skates]

We all wanted to run it back and after the trade was made as we always do, we both bitched and then tried to rationalize how Butler leaving might work. It's the nature of being a Sixers fan to hate what we did and try to convince ourselves it will work all at the same time.

Since Embiid was drafted the best move the Sixers have made that has lasted was trading Fultz to Orlando, moving or releasing Muscala (can't remember which) to end up in OKC and hit the shot that got us the unlikely FRP from OKC and selecting and keeping Maxey with that pick. Even that was more complicated since that the same pick was originally traded away by the Collar earlier for the Picnic Baskets Euro guy we drafted.

[mjkvol]

Woke up today hoping a Clips trade materializes. Harden/Tucker for Mann/Powell/Covington/Morris/one-two 1sts. They save $10 mil this year and finally get a legit point guard.


Maxey/Melton/Beverley
Powell/Springer/Korkmaz
Mann/Covington/House
Harris/Morris/Petrusev
Embiid/Reed/Mamba


Only contracts remaining next summer: Maxey (RFA), Powell, Mann, Petrusev (?), Embiid, and Reed (?).

Potential max slot targets next summer: LeBron (PO), Kawhi (PO), George (PO), Brown, Siakam, and AD (PO).

I like that trade, but I don't want any max slot signing, especially from that group. I'd like to trade Harris and Powell at the deadline and get more draft ammo, and actually use the picks to bring quality youth in here. I'll use the cap space to sign solid role players.

Let's build a team that will last beyond 1-2 years, and stop chasing imaginary windows. That's the way to win as a non-destination, not chasing aging stars who would only come here as a last resort.

I know that's a novel concept around here, but instead of trying to be the Lakers or Heat, let's follow the DEN / MEM / MIL example.

[FireMorey]

We all wanted to run it back and after the trade was made as we always do, we both bitched and then tried to rationalize how Butler leaving might work. It's the nature of being a Sixers fan to hate what we did and try to convince ourselves it will work all at the same time.

Since Embiid was drafted the best move the Sixers have made that has lasted was trading Fultz to Orlando, moving or releasing Muscala (can't remember which) to end up in OKC and hit the shot that got us the unlikely FRP from OKC and selecting and keeping Maxey with that pick. Even that was more complicated since that the same pick was originally traded away by the Collar earlier for the Picnic Baskets Euro guy we drafted.

In my experience I've found doing that is the worst thing you can do as a fan. I stopped doing that years ago with every team I follow, not just the Sixers and it has made being a sports fan far more enjoyable.

I get all fans need hope and a reason to watch, but when you delude yourself into something you know deep down isn't true, all that leads to is 10x worse anger, disappointment, and resentment on the back end. Rip the band aid off, and let all your anger out up front. And if things work out, you'll be pleasantly surprised. And if they don't work out, you were psychologically prepped for it, and it's much easier to just stop paying attention(if you need a break from the team) since you were already emotionally detached.

I think part of the reason the heel turn on Ben Simmons was so vicious and so strong in this town is because fans talked themselves into developing into a star and developing a jumper for years even when it started to become blatantly clear it was never going to happen. And when you hang on so long when you know deep down it isn't happening, it's kinda like the rug gets pulled out from under you and then the fan blames the player for believing in them, and you almost feel betrayed for giving them your trust in them all this time and letting you down.

The juxtaposition with my friends who believed in Ben and never believed in Ben once he passed up the dunk and asked to be traded was so stark. My friends who never believed in him couldn't care less. They were just like "whatever, the dude's always been a loser, I've long been over this dude." My friends who believed in him were outraged "I can't believe this Fing guy. Dude costs us a playoff game and has the balls to pull this on the Sixers???" It was an interesting organic psychological experiment playing out in real time.

[ProcessDoctor]

Let's build a team that will last beyond 1-2 years, and stop chasing imaginary windows. That's the way to win as a non-destination, not chasing aging stars who would only come here as a last resort.

I know that's a novel concept around here, but instead of trying to be the Lakers or Heat, let's follow the DEN / MEM / MIL example.

This is where you lost me. I understand not wanting to rush things, but we can't be in denial that there is a very real window with Embiid's MVP-level play.

[Black Mage]

Damn such a depressing fan base.

Don’t want Lillard. Don’t want Siakam. Don’t want Towns. Don’t want Harden. Didn’t want Durant or LeBron. Half the time don’t even want Embiid lol.

But ready to hitch their wagons to Jaden "can't shoot" Springer.

[Stanford]

Damn such a depressing fan base.

Don’t want Lillard. Don’t want Siakam. Don’t want Towns. Don’t want Harden. Didn’t want Durant or LeBron. Half the time don’t even want Embiid lol.

But ready to hitch their wagons to Jaden "can't shoot" Springer.

Gosh, I wonder if there are any important differences between Lillard and Jaden Springer.

[agiaco]

Damn such a depressing fan base.

Don’t want Lillard. Don’t want Siakam. Don’t want Towns. Don’t want Harden. Didn’t want Durant or LeBron. Half the time don’t even want Embiid lol.

But ready to hitch their wagons to Jaden "can't shoot" Springer.

Gosh, I wonder if there are any important differences between Lillard and Jaden Springer.

Age. Springer is bound for stardom as evidenced by his superstar play in summer league and the g-league

[Stanford]

I was thinking more like, Jaden Springer is already on the team and makes no money.

It's almost as if the NBA has a salary cap and good players are expensive to trade for.

[Mik317]

people don't want those guys because they will cost too much that we won't be able to field a good team anyway and/or they don't make us any more of a contender than we currently are...so why use resources to make yourself just as good/bad as you are now but even worse in the future.

Springer might be ass but he is currently on the roster, is cheap and "technically" still has upside.

so no **** there is a difference

yeah I'll take Dame but he doesn't want to be here...

KAT is another loser energy guy and I don't think thats a twin towers pairing that works

I hate Siakam's game and his fit with Biid is similar to the Tobias issue...plus I don't think they like each other and he may hate Nurse too lol.

Its context to these things that people constantly miss because all they see is shiny names....hell that's the same exact logic that made Brand trade for Tobias lol.

[mjkvol]

Let's build a team that will last beyond 1-2 years, and stop chasing imaginary windows. That's the way to win as a non-destination, not chasing aging stars who would only come here as a last resort.

I know that's a novel concept around here, but instead of trying to be the Lakers or Heat, let's follow the DEN / MEM / MIL example.

This is where you lost me. I understand not wanting to rush things, but we can't be in denial that there is a very real window with Embiid's MVP-level play.

The trick is to build a proper team that isn't reliant on "MVP level play" from Embiid, and for him to understand that he doesn't have to carry the team. We've had three seasons of chasing windows with 'win now' moves and MVP level play, and where has it gotten us?

Beside the fact that none of those "max players" are coming here, the only two I'd even have any interest in would be Brown or Siakam, both of which will never make it to free agency.

[mjkvol]

people don't want those guys because they will cost too much that we won't be able to field a good team anyway and/or they don't make us any more of a contender than we currently are...so why use resources to make yourself just as good/bad as you are now but even worse in the future.

Springer might be ass but he is currently on the roster, is cheap and "technically" still has upside.

so no **** there is a difference

That's the key - none of these proposed trades make us a title contender, and most will cripple any chance of building quality depth. That part of it is never in these proposals.

[ProcessDoctor]

Let's build a team that will last beyond 1-2 years, and stop chasing imaginary windows. That's the way to win as a non-destination, not chasing aging stars who would only come here as a last resort.

I know that's a novel concept around here, but instead of trying to be the Lakers or Heat, let's follow the DEN / MEM / MIL example.

This is where you lost me. I understand not wanting to rush things, but we can't be in denial that there is a very real window with Embiid's MVP-level play.

The trick is to build a proper team that isn't reliant on "MVP level play" from Embiid, and for him to understand that he doesn't have to carry the team. We've had three seasons of chasing windows with 'win now' moves and MVP level play, and where has it gotten us?

Beside the fact that none of those "max players" are coming here, the only two I'd even have any interest in would be Brown or Siakam, both of which will never make it to free agency.

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA. The only exceptions to this are the three Detroit Pistons championships. Unless Maxey becomes a top-5 player in 2-3 years then we are not contending with Joel Embiid.

[Stanford]

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA.

Then we're not winning with Lillard, Siakam, Towns or Harden either. So I guess you agree with those who don't want those players.

[mjkvol]

This is where you lost me. I understand not wanting to rush things, but we can't be in denial that there is a very real window with Embiid's MVP-level play.

The trick is to build a proper team that isn't reliant on "MVP level play" from Embiid, and for him to understand that he doesn't have to carry the team. We've had three seasons of chasing windows with 'win now' moves and MVP level play, and where has it gotten us?

Beside the fact that none of those "max players" are coming here, the only two I'd even have any interest in would be Brown or Siakam, both of which will never make it to free agency.

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA. The only exceptions to this are the three Detroit Pistons championships. Unless Maxey becomes a top-5 player in 2-3 years then we are not contending with Joel Embiid.

You act as if it's a zero-sum game, and great players won't be drafted and developed beyond this year. And why can't Embiid continue to be a great player without being a 30-pt. scorer? The team building game has changed, and the Nuggets were kind of a template of how more teams will do it, by drafting their core and signing role players, not the opposite.

Listen, the bottom line is that none of these trades make us a title contender, so why not go in a different direction? My hope is that's what Morey is thinking, but my fear is that he has one of these "win now and to hell with the future" trades that will make you guys happy in the works. A couple more second round exits, and it's back to lottery-ville.

[Embiid P]

This is where you lost me. I understand not wanting to rush things, but we can't be in denial that there is a very real window with Embiid's MVP-level play.

The trick is to build a proper team that isn't reliant on "MVP level play" from Embiid, and for him to understand that he doesn't have to carry the team. We've had three seasons of chasing windows with 'win now' moves and MVP level play, and where has it gotten us?

Beside the fact that none of those "max players" are coming here, the only two I'd even have any interest in would be Brown or Siakam, both of which will never make it to free agency.

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA. The only exceptions to this are the three Detroit Pistons championships. Unless Maxey becomes a top-5 player in 2-3 years then we are not contending with Joel Embiid.

You also can't win a title with two superstar players (both of whom are likely in their late prime or early decline) and little else. I honestly think that given our limited assets (thanks to the incompetence of previous GMs and the fact that star chasing hasn't worked for us thus far) to acquire another star our best shot at this point is to semi-emulate the Detroit Pistons model and trade Harden and Harris for pieces, depth and picks that best fit around Embiid.

[Mik317]

Harden and Biid in theory is a great fit. However, Harden not being a willing catch and shoot guy and his lack of rim pressure along with Biid's slow reaction time negating any advantage a pick and roll would give and the fact that he is an ass screen setter is exactly why it was easier to guard when you have time to scheme against (both being soft babbus also doesn't help lol). Add in the fact that there is no off ball movement (part due to Biid's slow processing speeds more than likely) and you have a stagnant offense that relies on both guys hitting tough contested jumpers which becomes harder when you are tired and in your feels. The key needs to be to have an offense that gets easy looks in a variety of ways, so that teams can't just sit on one play and wreck shop lol.

Biid is not the passer Jokic is and also sucks at getting deep positioning (IMO Biid is too top heavy which makes him easier to push out because of his weak base...says the fat POS I am) HOWEVER just looking at their offense...you had dudes wizzing around which made sending doubles much harder than it was here when the only guys you had to worry about was Maxey and Niang and sometimes Melton because Tobias never read the book on how to shoot quickly, Harden (and House for some reason) would rather dribble dribble stepback and PJ's joints need some WD-40 before he even can lift the ball to shoot...whereas the Nuggets have 3 unrepentant chucklords ready to chuck and athletes who will at least cut. There were so many times PJ would cut to the basket as it was the right play...but it didn't matter because he's 89 years old. Miami is very similar with their movement too.

Iso ball cannot be you main source of offense. Its important for sure. There are possesions in which you need to be able to throw the ball at your best guy and tell him take us home. Maybe Biid can't do that. Maybe he's just not that guy. I think the reason this loss hurt so badly was because he just went out sad and didn't even try...which you expect from Harden due to his history but not from the guy who cried after Kawhii shanked us in the heart. BUT I also think its important to make sure that you main offense isn't ALWAYS end of game shot clock heroics too. Jimmy is Mr. Clutch lord in the playoffs...but part of that is due to him being able to pick his spots, not have to guard the best players and generally taking quarters off at times. Jokic gets his rest on defense and has Murray to occasionally go super saiyan. If they are serious about "building around Biid" then we need to find a way to make it so the team doesn't need him to always hit Kobe shots to function and also doesn't need him to always put out fires on defense...if he still shrivels up and dies then...well it's fully on him (he still hold at least 70% of this years failure tho).

Now how we do that with the resources we have? IDK. Getting more athletic will help the defense side of things but thats what Morey and Pals get paid the big bucks for.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Brian Windhorst loves to pollute the atmosphere with bull.

[Black Mage]

I was thinking more like, Jaden Springer is already on the team and makes no money.

It's almost as if the NBA has a salary cap and good players are expensive to trade for.

Not comparing Dame to Springer. It is about how folks say "no this guy, not that guy, not him either." They have a reason to dump on EVERY player that is realistically within reach.

Second, one of the reasons given for "why not that guy" is that they "suck" or they are "munchkin's" or that they "don't help with winning."

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer. Who can't shoot, has no experience, hasn't shown he helps with winning either. He's a 3rd yr player in summer league and he looks no better than 1st year players. Most guys who are going to make it in the league are wrecking summer league by year 3, Jaden still SUCKS.

But that's ok, let's roll with a team counting on Jaden b/c some fans refuse to accept ANY OTHER PLAYER.

[phiphan]

Brian Windhorst loves to pollute the atmosphere with bull.

Well his name literally means "Horse Fart" in German, so...

[Stanford]

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer.

No one is content starting Jaden Springer.