Sixers Offseason Thread Part 3

[ProcessDoctor]

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA.

Then we're not winning with Lillard, Siakam, Towns or Harden either. So I guess you agree with those who don't want those players.

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

[mjkvol]

I was thinking more like, Jaden Springer is already on the team and makes no money.

It's almost as if the NBA has a salary cap and good players are expensive to trade for.

Not comparing Dame to Springer. It is about how folks say "no this guy, not that guy, not him either." They have a reason to dump on EVERY player that is realistically within reach.

Second, one of the reasons given for "why not that guy" is that they "suck" or they are "munchkin's" or that they "don't help with winning."

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer. Who can't shoot, has no experience, hasn't shown he helps with winning either. He's a 3rd yr player in summer league and he looks no better than 1st year players. Most guys who are going to make it in the league are wrecking summer league by year 3, Jaden still SUCKS.

But that's ok, let's roll with a team counting on Jaden b/c some fans refuse to accept ANY OTHER PLAYER.

No one is comparing Jaden Springer to any 'star', and no one here has spoken of Springer as any more than a potentially solid bench piece who was drafted and developed here.

Regarding the trashing of potential trade targets, it's more that most are on toxic contracts and are either older or are career empty stats collectors, the same thing we complained about for years with Tobias. Yet so many want to dive right back into the shallow end of the pool.

[eyeatoma]

I was thinking more like, Jaden Springer is already on the team and makes no money.

It's almost as if the NBA has a salary cap and good players are expensive to trade for.

Not comparing Dame to Springer. It is about how folks say "no this guy, not that guy, not him either." They have a reason to dump on EVERY player that is realistically within reach.

Second, one of the reasons given for "why not that guy" is that they "suck" or they are "munchkin's" or that they "don't help with winning."

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer. Who can't shoot, has no experience, hasn't shown he helps with winning either. He's a 3rd yr player in summer league and he looks no better than 1st year players. Most guys who are going to make it in the league are wrecking summer league by year 3, Jaden still SUCKS.

But that's ok, let's roll with a team counting on Jaden b/c some fans refuse to accept ANY OTHER PLAYER.

No one is comparing Jaden Springer to any 'star', and no one here has spoken of Springer as any more than a potentially solid bench piece who was drafted and developed here.

Regarding the trashing of potential trade targets, it's more that most are on toxic contracts and are either older or are career empty stats collectors, the same thing we complained about for years with Tobias. Yet so many want to dive right back into the shallow end of the pool.

That;s how the NBA is now, unless you're an MVP most contracts are toxic. Especially now that most stars are just signing, and then moving to a new team a year or 2 down the line.

[Arsenal]

I was thinking more like, Jaden Springer is already on the team and makes no money.

It's almost as if the NBA has a salary cap and good players are expensive to trade for.

Not comparing Dame to Springer. It is about how folks say "no this guy, not that guy, not him either." They have a reason to dump on EVERY player that is realistically within reach.

Second, one of the reasons given for "why not that guy" is that they "suck" or they are "munchkin's" or that they "don't help with winning."

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer. Who can't shoot, has no experience, hasn't shown he helps with winning either. He's a 3rd yr player in summer league and he looks no better than 1st year players. Most guys who are going to make it in the league are wrecking summer league by year 3, Jaden still SUCKS.

But that's ok, let's roll with a team counting on Jaden b/c some fans refuse to accept ANY OTHER PLAYER.

Intelligent fans don't refuse to consider any other player like Dame. It's the Dame lovers who don't understand a simple and elementary concept called OPPORTUNITY COST. When you sell the farm of trade assets for a superstar, you now don't have those assets and that cap room to make other moves.

The bottom line is in a world of limited resources, it's easier to build a title team around Jaden Springer getting paid $3M/yr versus Lillard getting paid $60M/yr. Not to mention keeping the extra trade assets that would be burned to acquire Dame.

[eyeatoma]

people don't want those guys because they will cost too much that we won't be able to field a good team anyway and/or they don't make us any more of a contender than we currently are...so why use resources to make yourself just as good/bad as you are now but even worse in the future.

Springer might be ass but he is currently on the roster, is cheap and "technically" still has upside.

so no **** there is a difference

yeah I'll take Dame but he doesn't want to be here...

KAT is another loser energy guy and I don't think thats a twin towers pairing that works

I hate Siakam's game and his fit with Biid is similar to the Tobias issue...plus I don't think they like each other and he may hate Nurse too lol.

Its context to these things that people constantly miss because all they see is shiny names....hell that's the same exact logic that made Brand trade for Tobias lol.

Disagree, Siakimn is a better defender, better in transition, better offensive weapon than Tobias. Yeah he's all about being a whirling dhervish, but he's better than Tobi. He's not a great shooter, but again beggars can't be choosers. We can't get the perfect player. We **** that up with all our bad trades, and losing assetts, and Philly being a **** destination.

[mjkvol]

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA.

Then we're not winning with Lillard, Siakam, Towns or Harden either. So I guess you agree with those who don't want those players.

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

Where are you getting that from? What we're talking ourselves out of is doing the same damn thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you seriously believe that trading picks and our only remaining assets for Lillard or a collection of washed role players from the Clippers is going to win a championship now, I guess we just have a fundamental difference of what a championship team looks like.

[Black Mage]

I was thinking more like, Jaden Springer is already on the team and makes no money.

It's almost as if the NBA has a salary cap and good players are expensive to trade for.

Not comparing Dame to Springer. It is about how folks say "no this guy, not that guy, not him either." They have a reason to dump on EVERY player that is realistically within reach.

Second, one of the reasons given for "why not that guy" is that they "suck" or they are "munchkin's" or that they "don't help with winning."

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer. Who can't shoot, has no experience, hasn't shown he helps with winning either. He's a 3rd yr player in summer league and he looks no better than 1st year players. Most guys who are going to make it in the league are wrecking summer league by year 3, Jaden still SUCKS.

But that's ok, let's roll with a team counting on Jaden b/c some fans refuse to accept ANY OTHER PLAYER.

Intelligent fans don't refuse to consider any other player like Dame. It's the Dame lovers who don't understand a simple and elementary concept called OPPORTUNITY COST. When you sell the farm of trade assets for a superstar, you now don't have those assets and that cap room to make other moves.

The bottom line is in a world of limited resources, it's easier to build a title team around Jaden Springer getting paid $3M/yr versus Lillard getting paid $60M/yr. Not to mention keeping the extra trade assets that would be burned to acquire Dame.

I'm calling BS. What good is cap space when the elite players DONT WANT TO COME HERE???? What ELITE player has EVER wanted to come here when we had cap space before?

And it isn't just Dame, on this board we have shot down... PG13, Siakam, FVV, Dame, Harden, Jimmy, Lavine etc and etc.

And there are people who freaked out when Simmons was possibly being flipped for Haliburton b/c they wanted Fox who by your logic should have been the one to avoid being on a "toxic" contract while Haliburton left you room to "use cap space."

And yes, the same folks who ALWAYS find something wrong with possible trade targets are the same ones claiming Jaden is bound for superstardom so we don't need those other guys.

[ProcessDoctor]

Then we're not winning with Lillard, Siakam, Towns or Harden either. So I guess you agree with those who don't want those players.

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

Where are you getting that from? What we're talking ourselves out of is doing the same damn thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you seriously believe that trading picks and our only remaining assets for Lillard or a collection of washed role players from the Clippers is going to win a championship now, I guess we just have a fundamental difference of what a championship team looks like.

I think we just disagree on this team's window. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is you believe there's championship potential on this team after 2-3 years when Embiid is likely no longer a top-5 player/MVP candidate. I do not, so am willing to optimize the next 2-3 years if the team we build has better title odds than what we have now.

This isn't only in reference to a Dame trade. If we can keep Maxey and accomplish that, then I'm all for it. If we have to let him go to improve our odds, then I'm all for that too. Our title odds start and end with Embiid's prime and I don't think there's a good argument against that notion.

[Arsenal]

Not comparing Dame to Springer. It is about how folks say "no this guy, not that guy, not him either." They have a reason to dump on EVERY player that is realistically within reach.

Second, one of the reasons given for "why not that guy" is that they "suck" or they are "munchkin's" or that they "don't help with winning."

But those same fans are completely content to just start Jaden freaking Springer. Who can't shoot, has no experience, hasn't shown he helps with winning either. He's a 3rd yr player in summer league and he looks no better than 1st year players. Most guys who are going to make it in the league are wrecking summer league by year 3, Jaden still SUCKS.

But that's ok, let's roll with a team counting on Jaden b/c some fans refuse to accept ANY OTHER PLAYER.

Intelligent fans don't refuse to consider any other player like Dame. It's the Dame lovers who don't understand a simple and elementary concept called OPPORTUNITY COST. When you sell the farm of trade assets for a superstar, you now don't have those assets and that cap room to make other moves.

The bottom line is in a world of limited resources, it's easier to build a title team around Jaden Springer getting paid $3M/yr versus Lillard getting paid $60M/yr. Not to mention keeping the extra trade assets that would be burned to acquire Dame.

I'm calling BS. What good is cap space when the elite players DONT WANT TO COME HERE???? What ELITE player has EVER wanted to come here when we had cap space before?

And it isn't just Dame, on this board we have shot down... PG13, Siakam, FVV, Dame, Harden, Jimmy, Lavine etc and etc.

And there are people who freaked out when Simmons was possibly being flipped for Haliburton b/c they wanted Fox who by your logic should have been the one to avoid being on a "toxic" contract while Haliburton left you room to "use cap space."

And yes, the same folks who ALWAYS find something wrong with possible trade targets are the same ones claiming Jaden is bound for superstardom so we don't need those other guys.

Anyone "calling BS" on what I wrote doesn't understand the following fundamental concepts at play:

1) Simple Math
2) Budgets
3) Opportunity Cost
4) NBA Salary Cap & Luxury Tax

[Stanford]

Since the dawn of the NBA, to win a championship, you almost always need to have one of the five best players in the NBA.

Then we're not winning with Lillard, Siakam, Towns or Harden either. So I guess you agree with those who don't want those players.

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

Those aren't top 5 players. What are you talking about?

[Black Mage]

Intelligent fans don't refuse to consider any other player like Dame. It's the Dame lovers who don't understand a simple and elementary concept called OPPORTUNITY COST. When you sell the farm of trade assets for a superstar, you now don't have those assets and that cap room to make other moves.

The bottom line is in a world of limited resources, it's easier to build a title team around Jaden Springer getting paid $3M/yr versus Lillard getting paid $60M/yr. Not to mention keeping the extra trade assets that would be burned to acquire Dame.

I'm calling BS. What good is cap space when the elite players DONT WANT TO COME HERE???? What ELITE player has EVER wanted to come here when we had cap space before?

And it isn't just Dame, on this board we have shot down... PG13, Siakam, FVV, Dame, Harden, Jimmy, Lavine etc and etc.

And there are people who freaked out when Simmons was possibly being flipped for Haliburton b/c they wanted Fox who by your logic should have been the one to avoid being on a "toxic" contract while Haliburton left you room to "use cap space."

And yes, the same folks who ALWAYS find something wrong with possible trade targets are the same ones claiming Jaden is bound for superstardom so we don't need those other guys.

Anyone "calling BS" on what I wrote doesn't understand the following fundamental concepts at play:

1) Simple Math
2) Budgets
3) Opportunity Cost
4) NBA Salary Cap & Luxury Tax

All I just read was you dodging the question of what ELITE player is coming to town for our "cap space." Let's play your game, I magically wiped off Harden's $35 mil; tell me who you sign THIS summer that makes us title contenders.

[ProcessDoctor]

Then we're not winning with Lillard, Siakam, Towns or Harden either. So I guess you agree with those who don't want those players.

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

Those aren't top 5 players. What are you talking about?

Stanford you are the Paul Reed to my PJ Tucker right now.

Embiid is the top-5 player we have to build around. Embiid will likely be a top-5 player for another 2-3 years. Optimize those 2-3 years. The end.

[Stanford]

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

Those aren't top 5 players. What are you talking about?

Stanford you are the Paul Reed to my PJ Tucker right now.

Embiid is the top-5 player we have to build around. Embiid will likely be a top-5 player for another 2-3 years. Optimize those 2-3 years. The end.

You're right, I'm not following at all. Because you initially set up the argument that you can't win without a top 5 player, and then you said this:

Unless Maxey becomes a top-5 player in 2-3 years then we are not contending with Joel Embiid.

Which seems to imply that Embiid is not one. So I'm not following.

[ProcessDoctor]

Those aren't top 5 players. What are you talking about?

Stanford you are the Paul Reed to my PJ Tucker right now.

Embiid is the top-5 player we have to build around. Embiid will likely be a top-5 player for another 2-3 years. Optimize those 2-3 years. The end.

You're right, I'm not following at all. Because you initially set up the argument that you can't win without a top 5 player, and then you said this:

Unless Maxey becomes a top-5 player in 2-3 years then we are not contending with Joel Embiid.

Which seems to imply that Embiid is not one. So I'm not following.

It means after 2-3 years he probably won't be, so we need to emphasize the next few seasons.

[mjkvol]

I'm calling BS. What good is cap space when the elite players DONT WANT TO COME HERE???? What ELITE player has EVER wanted to come here when we had cap space before?

And it isn't just Dame, on this board we have shot down... PG13, Siakam, FVV, Dame, Harden, Jimmy, Lavine etc and etc.

And there are people who freaked out when Simmons was possibly being flipped for Haliburton b/c they wanted Fox who by your logic should have been the one to avoid being on a "toxic" contract while Haliburton left you room to "use cap space."

And yes, the same folks who ALWAYS find something wrong with possible trade targets are the same ones claiming Jaden is bound for superstardom so we don't need those other guys.

Anyone "calling BS" on what I wrote doesn't understand the following fundamental concepts at play:

1) Simple Math
2) Budgets
3) Opportunity Cost
4) NBA Salary Cap & Luxury Tax

All I just read was you dodging the question of what ELITE player is coming to town for our "cap space." Let's play your game, I magically wiped off Harden's $35 mil; tell me who you sign THIS summer that makes us title contenders.

So what you're saying is that it's sign an "elite" player or bust? There's no other way to use cap space? Or are you from the "gotta win in 1-2 years before the earth caves in!" school of thought?

[eyeatoma]

Anyone "calling BS" on what I wrote doesn't understand the following fundamental concepts at play:

1) Simple Math
2) Budgets
3) Opportunity Cost
4) NBA Salary Cap & Luxury Tax

All I just read was you dodging the question of what ELITE player is coming to town for our "cap space." Let's play your game, I magically wiped off Harden's $35 mil; tell me who you sign THIS summer that makes us title contenders.

So what you're saying is that it's sign an "elite" player or bust? There's no other way to use cap space? Or are you from the "gotta win in 1-2 years before the earth caves in!" school of thought?

Embiid probably has 1-3 years left at an MVP level. There isn't much time to build organically, and get good quality contracts. I don't think Maxey has enough shake in his handle to get his own shot, we need one more star.

[eyeatoma]

Also, I'm out on Dame, he's being a little prince, and isn't worth giving Maxey up for, especially with his attitude and being a little bitch.

[mjkvol]

Embiid bro...smh

I can't believe we're talking ourselves out of needing a top-5 player to win a chip now.

Where are you getting that from? What we're talking ourselves out of is doing the same damn thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you seriously believe that trading picks and our only remaining assets for Lillard or a collection of washed role players from the Clippers is going to win a championship now, I guess we just have a fundamental difference of what a championship team looks like.

I think we just disagree on this team's window. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is you believe there's championship potential on this team after 2-3 years when Embiid is likely no longer a top-5 player/MVP candidate. I do not, so am willing to optimize the next 2-3 years if the team we build has better title odds than what we have now.

This isn't only in reference to a Dame trade. If we can keep Maxey and accomplish that, then I'm all for it. If we have to let him go to improve our odds, then I'm all for that too. Our title odds start and end with Embiid's prime and I don't think there's a good argument against that notion.

I disagree with the concept that we have to at all cost add another "star" right now, and that anyone being talked about as a 'star' in these proposals will make us a championship contender.

I disagree with the idea that it's a zero-sum game, that by being smart in the next couple of off seasons we can't build a team through the draft and with smart signings that might compete for a championship. Will it be in 2-3 seasons? Who knows, but if a proper team is built around an Embiid who becomes a smarter and more efficient, if not "MVP level" player, I feel like that's a better path to a potential championship than chasing 'stars' on toxic contracts who aren't going to push us over the top, and whose contracts preclude us from building around them.

[KramerDSP]

Morey’s most successful trade was trading for an ascending Harden from OKC.

At the deadline, he chose declining Harden over ascending Haliburton because the short-term odds of winning a championship were slightly higher with Brooklyn Harden.

If this is the critical move, I think it’s gotta be an ascending player. And I think that player is Brown. Could he be a 30 ppg scorer away from Tatum and if Embiid sacrifices a bit? If so, I think prying Brown from the Celtics is the key.

[mjkvol]

Morey’s most successful trade was trading for an ascending Harden from OKC.

At the deadline, he chose declining Harden over ascending Haliburton because the short-term odds of winning a championship were slightly higher with Brooklyn Harden.

If this is the critical move, I think it’s gotta be an ascending player. And I think that player is Brown. Could he be a 30 ppg scorer away from Tatum and if Embiid sacrifices a bit? If so, I think prying Brown from the Celtics is the key.

Agree. He's the only player we could conceivably get who I would invest in and build around a Brown/Embiid core, even if it cost us Maxey.