The Legend of Joel Embiid

[76ciology]

Post up? I know you all just missed this guy.

[Sixerscan]

Thank you for the great example of a guy posting up too far away from the basket.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Embiid's problem isn't posting up, it's how he plays down low. Embiid is significantly better facing the basket. He's not comfortable with his back to the basket yet.

[Ericb5]

For everyone who says the post game doesn't matter it's inefficient yadda yadda yadda this is what happens when you have a center who can't establish himself in the post.

It just makes it extremely hard to sort of get consistent all star level offense from the position especially when the 3PT shot isn't working

Can’t establish himself in the post? What are you talking about?

Embiid gets whatever post position he tries to get. He is one of the strongest players in the league.


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That simply isn't true unless his intention is to setup 8-10 feet away from the basket.

Go watch players who still operate in the post they almost all catch it 2-3 feet deeper it's part of the reason he struggles to backdown defenders and why we see him settle for jumpshots.

Well then what you are saying is that he doesn’t try to get deep enough post position. He clearly gets what ever post position he tries for. He has no problems carving out and holding position.


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[Ericb5]

Embiid posts up 1.7 times more per game than anyone in the NBA.

He's posting up 1.7 times more per game than he did last year (when he also lead the league)

Some of these criticisms of Embiid are bordering on fake news.

Hmmm. My question is what constitutes a post up. If he catches the ball 10 feet from the basket is that a post up because to me that doesn’t count. I want to know how far out when he catches the ball when it’s not considered a post up. Embiid plays too far out and doesn’t catch the ball within 5 feet as much as I would like.

I think that a post up is when he catches the ball with his back to the basket. Whether he is 3 feet or 10 feet from the rim, if he grabs position, calls for the ball, and receives it with his back to the basket then that is a post up.


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[Ericb5]

Embiid's problem isn't posting up, it's how he plays down low. Embiid is significantly better facing the basket. He's not comfortable with his back to the basket yet.

I think that they need to work on him moving more quickly when he has his back to the basket.

Get him the ball, and then he has to go right into a move, or pass it back out. When he starts dribbling a couple of times he gives the second defender time to come over.

Hakeem was so poised and decisive with the ball. If he sensed the double team coming he would spin away from it or pass it back out.

Understandably, Embiid doesn’t have this experience yet. He probably will just have to trial and error his way out of this, and we will have to live with the turnovers while he learns.


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[Kolkmania]

Embiid's problem isn't posting up, it's how he plays down low. Embiid is significantly better facing the basket. He's not comfortable with his back to the basket yet.

I think that they need to work on him moving more quickly when he has his back to the basket.

Get him the ball, and then he has to go right into a move, or pass it back out. When he starts dribbling a couple of times he gives the second defender time to come over.

Hakeem was so poised and decisive with the ball. If he sensed the double team coming he would spin away from it or pass it back out.

Understandably, Embiid doesn’t have this experience yet. He probably will just have to trial and error his way out of this, and we will have to live with the turnovers while he learns.


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It's not all Embiid's fault, I think his passing out of the post has been surprisingly good. Especially considering that the only action when he's posted is the cutting of the ball passer to the weakside corner, instead we should run split screens for Redick/Bayless/TLC/Saric, implement hammer actions, etc.

Secondly, Embiid should be reminded that his biggest contribution will be on the defensive end. I don't need him to be a +30% usage guy. The things that he does on the offensive end should be more decisive, swing the ball, post up and look to pass, fill the corners for easy threes or dragging rim protection away and ROLL to the basket. He's way too indecisive when he screens, same problem Okafor has.

After all, we have to be patient. Guy has played ~40 games and isn't in his best shape yet regarding his conditioning and agility.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Embiid's problem when he has his back to the basket is that he has no go to move yet, he thinks about what he wants to do rather than going to a go to move and using counters off of it. He's 9-14 on hook shots this year, that should be his bread and butter and all the cool looking stuff he wants to do can happen off that fundamental shot. Every time I see him take a hook shot he makes it, but he just doesn't go to it as often as he should. I've seen him take it and make it with both hands and it seems unguardable with how deep in the post he can get, but he's always trying to draw a foul now.

[kriss73]

The true concern about Embiid's game is that his TOs rate is very high even this year.

He has to find a way to cut them down.

[LloydFree]

Embiid's problem when he has his back to the basket is that he has no go to move yet, he thinks about what he wants to do rather than going to a go to move and using counters off of it. He's 9-14 on hook shots this year, that should be his bread and butter and all the cool looking stuff he wants to do can happen off that fundamental shot. Every time I see him take a hook shot he makes it, but he just doesn't go to it as often as he should. I've seen him take it and make it with both hands and it seems unguardable with how deep in the post he can get, but he's always trying to draw a foul now.

I agree. I've thought about this a lot with Embiid's skillset. He does seem a bit obsessed with replicating Olajuwan and/or drawing fouls in the post. I'd like someone to show Embiid some film of Robert Parrish. In the post, Parrish's bread and butter was the Right hand hook. If they over-played the right, he spun the opposite way and made the jumper. If they played too far to the left, he did a quick spin right and drove all the way in for the dunk. The left hand hook is a difficult counter for the right hand hook. It takes too long to transfer the ball. I'm thinking the 76ers don't want Embiid taking midrange jumpers, off counter moves, because it could be viewed as an inefficient shot. But I'm curious about how that type of game would work today.

[Kobblehead]

Post up? I know you all just missed this guy.

One positive thing I'll say about Okafor. He had excellent spacial awareness and dealt with helpside defenders very well. Dude would literally dribble out of trouble. Most bigs can't do that.

Okafor would probably be our best option as a closer.

[Kobblehead]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21396678/philadelphia-76ers-center-joel-embiid-says-loves-los-angeles-lakers-rookie-lonzo-ball-social-media-trash-talk

"I love Lonzo," Embiid told ESPN. "The whole situation with them, I think it's just fun. I love what he's doing, especially with his own shoe. He's staking his own place. People think I hate him, but I love him."

[76ciology]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21396678/philadelphia-76ers-center-joel-embiid-says-loves-los-angeles-lakers-rookie-lonzo-ball-social-media-trash-talk

"I love Lonzo," Embiid told ESPN. "The whole situation with them, I think it's just fun. I love what he's doing, especially with his own shoe. He's staking his own place. People think I hate him, but I love him."

He's acting friendly but reality is he wants to dunk over him and desimate his soul

[Sixersftw]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21396678/philadelphia-76ers-center-joel-embiid-says-loves-los-angeles-lakers-rookie-lonzo-ball-social-media-trash-talk

"I love Lonzo," Embiid told ESPN. "The whole situation with them, I think it's just fun. I love what he's doing, especially with his own shoe. He's staking his own place. People think I hate him, but I love him."

He's acting friendly but reality is he wants to dunk over him and desimate his soul

Everyone has a buddy that just constantly talks **** no matter what you're doing. That's just Embiid. I don't think he has any real lasting animosity towards anyone.

[Ericb5]

Embiid's problem when he has his back to the basket is that he has no go to move yet, he thinks about what he wants to do rather than going to a go to move and using counters off of it. He's 9-14 on hook shots this year, that should be his bread and butter and all the cool looking stuff he wants to do can happen off that fundamental shot. Every time I see him take a hook shot he makes it, but he just doesn't go to it as often as he should. I've seen him take it and make it with both hands and it seems unguardable with how deep in the post he can get, but he's always trying to draw a foul now.

Agreed.

He needs to halve his time between receiving the ball and shooting or passing the ball. He isn't going to be able to do his hooks if he catches the ball too far away from the basket though. He will need to catch it closer.

I think that one of the problems that leads him to catching the ball too far away is that he is more comfortable turning and facing the defender when he receives the ball and he wants to give himself room to do that.

He is going to figure this out.

[Negrodamus]

Unpopular opinion, but I'd rather he doesn't post up more. He's better suited moving without the ball and only posting up if he's in space and has a clean entry pass near the basket. The days of Shaq catching the ball and going to work are pretty much over. Embiid has a nice enough jumper to be a major threat in the mid-range to the 3pt line.

The best teams find a way to get baskets with the least path of resistance. When Fultz returns, we need to run the PnR exclusively through him in the half court with Embiid being the recipient of the roll passes more often than not.

[ankle420breaker]

His faceup jumper is a shot he looks for. He either gets it off with ease, or draws the contact. I'd say that's partly why he prefers operating a little further away from the basket.

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[HotelVitale]

Unpopular opinion, but I'd rather he doesn't post up more. He's better suited moving without the ball and only posting up if he's in space and has a clean entry pass near the basket. The days of Shaq catching the ball and going to work are pretty much over. Embiid has a nice enough jumper to be a major threat in the mid-range to the 3pt line. The best teams find a way to get baskets with the least path of resistance. When Fultz returns, we need to run the PnR exclusively through him in the half court with Embiid being the recipient of the roll passes more often than not.

I think there's something between the two that could work, though I agree that I don't like the straight post-up for us in the long term. When we stop the offense to let Ben or Embiid post up, it often works but it slows the pace, creates chaos that leads to TOs (since everyone's just reacting to the defense's scrambling), and stops the rest of the offense from getting to its best spots (off picks, distractions, etc). If you run post ups within your offense and within your motion, though, it can lead to a) better positioning on the catch and b) other scripted actions after the catch (a quick pass to a shooter, a give and go type cut that leads to a pick, etc depending on what play the're running). We seem to have some clever plays drawn up for the entry pass, no reason we can't just have post-ups become part of our other motions--the handoffs, off-ball screens for shooters, and of course the pn'r that we need to run more at some point.

[Negrodamus]

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=POST_TOUCHES&dir=1&CF=POINTS*G*19

I filtered it for players scoring 19 ppg or more and in descending order of "post ups". Embiid is number one with 13.4, but his "paint touches" are 4.9. So he's not getting the ball nearly enough in the paint. Looking at AD (9.9) and Aldridge (8.5), these should be the target for someone of Embiid's crazy stature.

[76ciology]

Unpopular opinion, but I'd rather he doesn't post up more. He's better suited moving without the ball and only posting up if he's in space and has a clean entry pass near the basket. The days of Shaq catching the ball and going to work are pretty much over. Embiid has a nice enough jumper to be a major threat in the mid-range to the 3pt line.

The best teams find a way to get baskets with the least path of resistance. When Fultz returns, we need to run the PnR exclusively through him in the half court with Embiid being the recipient of the roll passes more often than not.

Totally agree with this. Post and ISo should be last option and best set up on screen plays whenever the defense switch.