Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[GutUNC]

One is 22 and has improved every year, one is 25 and at least on one end hasn’t at all. Man the negativity here lately

He didn't improve, he shot more. And he's a year away from having to be overpaid.

If you can get a pile of futures with him then great but I doubt that's the case. If the star isn't out there (and he isn't), get the pile of futures to turn in to one and have some optionality. If this is the last move, you've already failed.

He did improve. I'd even say that he improved significantly. The problem is that he started out SOOOOO bad. Look at his advanced stats. PER: 12 -> 16.3 -> 18.0. TS%: .520 -> .560 -> .573. WS48: -0.011 -> .057 -> .080. NET RTG: -20 -> -10 -> -7.

Unfortunately, he's still not very good. He's barely a positive impact player, but he was downright horrible his rookie season and very mediocre his 2nd season. At this point, he's good enough to start and be a 4th or 5th option on a winning team. But not if his usage rate is as high as it has been. The high usage has to go to options #1 and #2 if the team is going to win. And he's not worth anywhere near a max contract.

On the other hand, he has been improving. If the trend continues, maybe he can be a star. Or maybe on a team with Tobias and Embiid he can dial down his usage and be even more efficient. His reputation does not indicate that will happen.

He shot virtually identical percentages in Year 3 and Year 2. He played 2 more minutes, so his PPG, APG and TOs went up slightly. Year 1 to Year 2 was when he improved.

[Tomjas]

Read on Twitter

[FlyingArrow]

He didn't improve, he shot more. And he's a year away from having to be overpaid.

If you can get a pile of futures with him then great but I doubt that's the case. If the star isn't out there (and he isn't), get the pile of futures to turn in to one and have some optionality. If this is the last move, you've already failed.

He did improve. I'd even say that he improved significantly. The problem is that he started out SOOOOO bad. Look at his advanced stats. PER: 12 -> 16.3 -> 18.0. TS%: .520 -> .560 -> .573. WS48: -0.011 -> .057 -> .080. NET RTG: -20 -> -10 -> -7.

Unfortunately, he's still not very good. He's barely a positive impact player, but he was downright horrible his rookie season and very mediocre his 2nd season. At this point, he's good enough to start and be a 4th or 5th option on a winning team. But not if his usage rate is as high as it has been. The high usage has to go to options #1 and #2 if the team is going to win. And he's not worth anywhere near a max contract.

On the other hand, he has been improving. If the trend continues, maybe he can be a star. Or maybe on a team with Tobias and Embiid he can dial down his usage and be even more efficient. His reputation does not indicate that will happen.

He shot virtually identical percentages in Year 3 and Year 2. He played 2 more minutes, so his PPG, APG and TOs went up slightly. Year 1 to Year 2 was when he improved.

Year 1 to Year 2 was a bigger improvement, but those are not insignificant gains in year 3. His shooting percentages were pretty much the same, but he made a huge gain in Free Throw Rate and Assist Rate.

[Sportfan73]

He did improve. I'd even say that he improved significantly. The problem is that he started out SOOOOO bad. Look at his advanced stats. PER: 12 -> 16.3 -> 18.0. TS%: .520 -> .560 -> .573. WS48: -0.011 -> .057 -> .080. NET RTG: -20 -> -10 -> -7.

Unfortunately, he's still not very good. He's barely a positive impact player, but he was downright horrible his rookie season and very mediocre his 2nd season. At this point, he's good enough to start and be a 4th or 5th option on a winning team. But not if his usage rate is as high as it has been. The high usage has to go to options #1 and #2 if the team is going to win. And he's not worth anywhere near a max contract.

On the other hand, he has been improving. If the trend continues, maybe he can be a star. Or maybe on a team with Tobias and Embiid he can dial down his usage and be even more efficient. His reputation does not indicate that will happen.

He shot virtually identical percentages in Year 3 and Year 2. He played 2 more minutes, so his PPG, APG and TOs went up slightly. Year 1 to Year 2 was when he improved.

Year 1 to Year 2 was a bigger improvement, but those are not insignificant gains in year 3. His shooting percentages were pretty much the same, but he made a huge gain in Free Throw Rate and Assist Rate.

All in a pretty bad situation with not great spacing. You never know when big jumps can come when surrounded by the same spacing that Ben had here.

[FlyingArrow]

He shot virtually identical percentages in Year 3 and Year 2. He played 2 more minutes, so his PPG, APG and TOs went up slightly. Year 1 to Year 2 was when he improved.

Year 1 to Year 2 was a bigger improvement, but those are not insignificant gains in year 3. His shooting percentages were pretty much the same, but he made a huge gain in Free Throw Rate and Assist Rate.

All in a pretty bad situation with not great spacing. You never know when big jumps can come when surrounded by the same spacing that Ben had here.

Yeah, but even with those jumps the past couple of years he still just lands on "average". Barely positive offense and below average defense. But being able to maintain that offense at a high usage rate lands him exactly on 0.0 BPM. He would really need to make some gains to be a worthwhile acquisition.

[spikeslovechild]

Ben Simmons will never play another game for the Sixers

All of this call his bluff. Let him sit out. And whatnot is not realistic IMO.

Doesn't mean trade him for dirt but Morey got got by not lowering his price a bit near the draft and prior to FA when teams are more willing to make moves. It was a valid tactic but it backfired and now w/ his camp making noise the time for those games are over.

Sexton is not perfect. Beasley is a bad day away from jail time. Derrick White is injury prone and Murray is another non shooting klutch guy. Hali and Fox aren't on the board. Dame isn't walking through that door. There is no magic move to make that makes everyone happy or even one that makes us obviously better. We have to bank on improvement for our youth and hope that Embiid can raise the floor of whatever flawed dude we get back and that and hopefully some picks can be used to attract talent down the line but the bottom line IMO is that Ben is done here and moving him before the season is needed if only to get the stink off the team and allow them to focus on the season. Walking on eggshells and awaiting the obvious move does not help anyone...I mean we saw it wreck Ben himself last year.

its time. Let it go. Move on.

I don't care about Ben whether he sits out or plays or decides to play in China that his decision with the associated repercussions including fines and loss of income. As a fan it's about the Sixers.

Trading him has to accomplish one of three things it either has to bring assets we can flip for a star down the road or bring in an ascending young player who is on track to stardom (not happening) or be part of a package for a star like Lillard. The process is over we messed up on Fultz Simmons is our last remaining major asset. We gain nothing in either the near term or longterm doing anything else is pointless and just placating Simmons to try avoid an uncomfortable situation.

If we need to get uncomfortable to make a move for the kind of package we want then lets just get uncomfortable. Sure as a fan it will suck seeing Simmons sulk either away from the team or on the court but I'd rather do that then make a bad trade. Infact I'd rather not trade him at all and either force him to return or retire then do a bad deal.

What did placating these stars by trading them for lesser win now type moves ever accomplish? Did it help the Cavs when they did it with Irving? How about Kawhi and Demar with the Spurs? No thanks. If the 76ers have to be first team to stand firm then let us he has four years on his deal we can be as patient as needed.

[sixers4real]

Ben Simmons will never play another game for the Sixers

All of this call his bluff. Let him sit out. And whatnot is not realistic IMO.

Doesn't mean trade him for dirt but Morey got got by not lowering his price a bit near the draft and prior to FA when teams are more willing to make moves. It was a valid tactic but it backfired and now w/ his camp making noise the time for those games are over.

Sexton is not perfect. Beasley is a bad day away from jail time. Derrick White is injury prone and Murray is another non shooting klutch guy. Hali and Fox aren't on the board. Dame isn't walking through that door. There is no magic move to make that makes everyone happy or even one that makes us obviously better. We have to bank on improvement for our youth and hope that Embiid can raise the floor of whatever flawed dude we get back and that and hopefully some picks can be used to attract talent down the line but the bottom line IMO is that Ben is done here and moving him before the season is needed if only to get the stink off the team and allow them to focus on the season. Walking on eggshells and awaiting the obvious move does not help anyone...I mean we saw it wreck Ben himself last year.

its time. Let it go. Move on.

I don't care about Ben whether he sits out or plays or decides to play in China that his decision with the associated repercussions including fines and loss of income. As a fan it's about the Sixers.

Trading him has to accomplish one of three things it either has to bring assets we can flip for a star down the road or bring in an ascending young player who is on track to stardom (not happening) or be part of a package for a star like Lillard. The process is over we messed up on Fultz Simmons is our last remaining major asset. We gain nothing in either the near term or longterm doing anything else is pointless and just placating Simmons to try avoid an uncomfortable situation.

If we need to get uncomfortable to make a move for the kind of package we want then lets just get uncomfortable. Sure as a fan it will suck seeing Simmons sulk either away from the team or on the court but I'd rather do that then make a bad trade. Infact I'd rather not trade him at all and either force him to return or retire then do a bad deal.

What did placating these stars by trading them for lesser win now type moves ever accomplish? Did it help the Cavs when they did it with Irving? How about Kawhi and Demar with the Spurs? No thanks. If the 76ers have to be first team to stand firm then let us he has four years on his deal we can be as patient as needed.

Exactly how I feel and I guess Morey feels the same.

[Tomjas]

Ben Simmons will never play another game for the Sixers

All of this call his bluff. Let him sit out. And whatnot is not realistic IMO.

Doesn't mean trade him for dirt but Morey got got by not lowering his price a bit near the draft and prior to FA when teams are more willing to make moves. It was a valid tactic but it backfired and now w/ his camp making noise the time for those games are over.

Sexton is not perfect. Beasley is a bad day away from jail time. Derrick White is injury prone and Murray is another non shooting klutch guy. Hali and Fox aren't on the board. Dame isn't walking through that door. There is no magic move to make that makes everyone happy or even one that makes us obviously better. We have to bank on improvement for our youth and hope that Embiid can raise the floor of whatever flawed dude we get back and that and hopefully some picks can be used to attract talent down the line but the bottom line IMO is that Ben is done here and moving him before the season is needed if only to get the stink off the team and allow them to focus on the season. Walking on eggshells and awaiting the obvious move does not help anyone...I mean we saw it wreck Ben himself last year.

its time. Let it go. Move on.

I don't care about Ben whether he sits out or plays or decides to play in China that his decision with the associated repercussions including fines and loss of income. As a fan it's about the Sixers.

Trading him has to accomplish one of three things it either has to bring assets we can flip for a star down the road or bring in an ascending young player who is on track to stardom (not happening) or be part of a package for a star like Lillard. The process is over we messed up on Fultz Simmons is our last remaining major asset. We gain nothing in either the near term or longterm doing anything else is pointless and just placating Simmons to try avoid an uncomfortable situation.

If we need to get uncomfortable to make a move for the kind of package we want then lets just get uncomfortable. Sure as a fan it will suck seeing Simmons sulk either away from the team or on the court but I'd rather do that then make a bad trade. Infact I'd rather not trade him at all and either force him to return or retire then do a bad deal.

What did placating these stars by trading them for lesser win now type moves ever accomplish? Did it help the Cavs when they did it with Irving? How about Kawhi and Demar with the Spurs? No thanks. If the 76ers have to be first team to stand firm then let us he has four years on his deal we can be as patient as needed.

Exactly how I feel and I guess Morey feels the same.

We can say what we like about Ben’s play but Morey’s performance has been no better

Simmons was told that he was being traded for Harden

He was told that he was being traded after the playoffs

He’s still here because Morey fkd up so the brass had to travel to LA and beg him to stay but I guess Simmons has had enough of the games

That’s just ridiculous FROM BOTH SIDES

Trade him or don’t

[phillynative]

From Damian Lillard to Collin Sexton lol

When did we have Lillard

When or where did i say we had him?

[76ciology]

From Damian Lillard to Collin Sexton lol

It’s not necessarily that. It’s sexton, Rubio,+2 unprotected firsts and 2 swaps or Beasley and McDaniels and those picks. That’s it for me. I would rather take the shot on Sexton plus the picks than the wolves **** package. Everyone talks about how the cavs have no shooting and adding
Ben would be rough for them and their offense, well sexton just averaged 24 a game at 21 years old with that same terrible spacing, and not on like monte Ellis 42 percent from the field, he shot 48 from the field and 38 from 3

There are reasons why the Cavs don’t want to pay him

Sexton plays zero defence and is a massive ball hog

A backcourt of he and Curry/Maxey is dumpster fire Blazers

Im not speaking with certainty, i dont know Sexton personally to know how he thinks.

But I do think changing the context of where he plays could change his game.

I feel Sexton could be like what IT was for the Celtics. Whereas him being able to fill a hole on our team makes a big impact despite him not being a high impact player on a nutshell.

It’s like an average tire. It alone does not make a car run fast. But lets say you have a car with only 3 tires and you need one to move. Sexton could be that missing tire for us.

Then I think he can be a better defensive player on our team. He has the tools to be good at it. While he may not be in 200% mode on offense in all possession if he plays with more talented teammates. It’s like how Melo or Harden can play better on defense if they want to.

The key for me is getting a pick from the Cavs in return as an insurance if this thing does not playout.

If not, I’d pump up Sexton’s value and look to trade him and our pick next season (hopefully i’d trade Springer instead).

[76ciology]

Remember that rumor that Pacers offered us Brogdon and a pick for Ben? We probably can make a three way out of that, in case Cavs asks for a guard in return because they already have a logjam of bigs.

Something like..

Sixers:
Sexton
Love
Unprotected pick

Cavs:
Brogdon
TJ Warren
Pacers pick

Pacers:
Ben Simmons

[76ciology]

[instagram][/instagram]

I hope my dream trade of Sexton, Love and unprotected cavs pick becomes true.

Starting to seem like it will honestly. We better get more than 1 pick and more than 1 swap though. Then we have a year to evaluate sexton before deciding on paying him, and worse case scenario we get a sign and trade for another asset, a pick, or a massive exception next offseason. I think he could break out though

So we will not get a wing defender or playmaker back

I’d be looking to trade Tobi or Milton after we make a Ben Simmons trade.

If not, then Morey has to use his talent to get us one using FA.

[sixers4real]

I don't care about Ben whether he sits out or plays or decides to play in China that his decision with the associated repercussions including fines and loss of income. As a fan it's about the Sixers.

Trading him has to accomplish one of three things it either has to bring assets we can flip for a star down the road or bring in an ascending young player who is on track to stardom (not happening) or be part of a package for a star like Lillard. The process is over we messed up on Fultz Simmons is our last remaining major asset. We gain nothing in either the near term or longterm doing anything else is pointless and just placating Simmons to try avoid an uncomfortable situation.

If we need to get uncomfortable to make a move for the kind of package we want then lets just get uncomfortable. Sure as a fan it will suck seeing Simmons sulk either away from the team or on the court but I'd rather do that then make a bad trade. Infact I'd rather not trade him at all and either force him to return or retire then do a bad deal.

What did placating these stars by trading them for lesser win now type moves ever accomplish? Did it help the Cavs when they did it with Irving? How about Kawhi and Demar with the Spurs? No thanks. If the 76ers have to be first team to stand firm then let us he has four years on his deal we can be as patient as needed.

Exactly how I feel and I guess Morey feels the same.

We can say what we like about Ben’s play but Morey’s performance has been no better

Simmons was told that he was being traded for Harden

He was told that he was being traded after the playoffs

He’s still here because Morey fkd up so the brass had to travel to LA and beg him to stay but I guess Simmons has had enough of the games

That’s just ridiculous FROM BOTH SIDES

Trade him or don’t

I judge Morey by the things he HAS done, not by the rumors of what I hear from media of what he said.
And he’s done very good trades and signings during his 10 months being here.

Morey traded Horford and his awful contract, and I say it ONLY cost us a 1st rounded for a very food player in Danny Green.
Morey made a huge upgrade in trading Richardson for Seth Curry and his great contract.
He drafted Maxey.
Dwight signing was good also.

Yeah, George Hill trade was bad, I never wanted him on Sixers because he’s washed to me, but you can’t always make great trades.

Regarding Simmons, it’s no surprise his name is in the trade rumors. If he’s upset about it, well, he’s soft. It’s business first of all, and management and ownership will want the best for the team, and when Harden was available, clearly a better player then Simmons, why would you be upset to hear your name in rumors.

Morey’s been great so far and I trust him on making a good value Simmons trade.

[Sportfan73]

It’s not necessarily that. It’s sexton, Rubio,+2 unprotected firsts and 2 swaps or Beasley and McDaniels and those picks. That’s it for me. I would rather take the shot on Sexton plus the picks than the wolves **** package. Everyone talks about how the cavs have no shooting and adding
Ben would be rough for them and their offense, well sexton just averaged 24 a game at 21 years old with that same terrible spacing, and not on like monte Ellis 42 percent from the field, he shot 48 from the field and 38 from 3

There are reasons why the Cavs don’t want to pay him

Sexton plays zero defence and is a massive ball hog

A backcourt of he and Curry/Maxey is dumpster fire Blazers

Im not speaking with certainty, i dont know Sexton personally to know how he thinks.

But I do think changing the context of where he plays could change his game.

I feel Sexton could be like what IT was for the Celtics. Whereas him being able to fill a hole on our team makes a big impact despite him not being a high impact player on a nutshell.

It’s like an average tire. It alone does not make a car run fast. But lets say you have a car with only tire and you need one to move fast. Sexton could be that missing tire for us.

Then I think he can be a better defensive player on our team. He has the tools to be good at it. While he may not be in 200% mode on offense in all possession if he plays with more talented teammates. It’s like how Melo or Harden can play better on defense if they want to.

The key for me is getting a pick from the Cavs in return as an insurance if this thing does not playout.

If not, I’d pump up Sexton’s value and look to trade him and our pick next season (hopefully i’d trade Springer instead).

It’s just the idea that we could sexton+ picks/swaps. That’s the premise

[76ciology]

Remember that rumor that Pacers offered us Brogdon and a pick for Ben? We probably can make a three way out of that, in case Cavs asks for a guard in return because they already have a logjam of bigs.

Something like..

Sixers:
Sexton
Love
Unprotected pick

Cavs:
Brogdon
TJ Warren
Pacers pick

Pacers:
Ben Simmons

Hmm just read that Tj warren will be out

[Slick SickSir]

If tj warren and brogdon are being moved we would be dumb as all hell to not be the ones getting them in return

Those 2 fit PERFECTLY into this team with embiid

That deal if available should be done yesterday

Money even works out almost identically as well. Get it done

[Mik317]

Brogdon's injury history is almost worst than Embiids.

Warren isn't the picture of health himself and plays in the same space as Tobias (who we cannot move).

They are good players for sure (Warren would totally forget how to shoot once here tho...its the law lol) tho

[phillynative]

Would love Warren if not for the injury concerns too. Tobias could never lite up a Ben Simmons caliber defender

[sixers hoops]

Ben Simmons will never play another game for the Sixers

All of this call his bluff. Let him sit out. And whatnot is not realistic IMO.

Doesn't mean trade him for dirt but Morey got got by not lowering his price a bit near the draft and prior to FA when teams are more willing to make moves. It was a valid tactic but it backfired and now w/ his camp making noise the time for those games are over.

Sexton is not perfect. Beasley is a bad day away from jail time. Derrick White is injury prone and Murray is another non shooting klutch guy. Hali and Fox aren't on the board. Dame isn't walking through that door. There is no magic move to make that makes everyone happy or even one that makes us obviously better. We have to bank on improvement for our youth and hope that Embiid can raise the floor of whatever flawed dude we get back and that and hopefully some picks can be used to attract talent down the line but the bottom line IMO is that Ben is done here and moving him before the season is needed if only to get the stink off the team and allow them to focus on the season. Walking on eggshells and awaiting the obvious move does not help anyone...I mean we saw it wreck Ben himself last year.

its time. Let it go. Move on.

I don't care about Ben whether he sits out or plays or decides to play in China that his decision with the associated repercussions including fines and loss of income. As a fan it's about the Sixers.

Trading him has to accomplish one of three things it either has to bring assets we can flip for a star down the road or bring in an ascending young player who is on track to stardom (not happening) or be part of a package for a star like Lillard. The process is over we messed up on Fultz Simmons is our last remaining major asset. We gain nothing in either the near term or longterm doing anything else is pointless and just placating Simmons to try avoid an uncomfortable situation.

If we need to get uncomfortable to make a move for the kind of package we want then lets just get uncomfortable. Sure as a fan it will suck seeing Simmons sulk either away from the team or on the court but I'd rather do that then make a bad trade. Infact I'd rather not trade him at all and either force him to return or retire then do a bad deal.

What did placating these stars by trading them for lesser win now type moves ever accomplish? Did it help the Cavs when they did it with Irving? How about Kawhi and Demar with the Spurs? No thanks. If the 76ers have to be first team to stand firm then let us he has four years on his deal we can be as patient as needed.

My thoughts pretty much. Letting Ben holdout is very realistic if ownership is on board. Not too confident they will be. I just hope Morey’s idea of what is an acceptable trade offer is in line with what Ben actually is.

[Samson]

I'm just curious here - because a lot of people are *wanting* packages of players I have never even heard of and/or not even associating with anything remotely close to an approximation of the idea of anything resembling fair compensation for Simmons - so if he sits out, does he get paid?

I have asked a few times and don't think I ever got an answer. I think AD got paid and basically it seemed like it was a PR move - he said he wasn't going to play until get got traded to LA and then they kind of reversed it and said "Oh he's a little injured..." and then maybe he was like "No I'm not, I'm just not playing until you trade me to LA" ... and they reversed it again, "We're holding him out until we resolve this... don't want anything bad to happen..." === he got fully paid (many many millions of dollars a month...) for doing nothing whatsoever.

If Simmons sits out, he will not get paid right? Because I would absolutely call that bluff. I guess the counter would be "he can fake an injury" but is there not some process to deal with that, dare I say "arbitration" or something ... Where the league or some power would be like "We call BS, play or don't get paid.."

I am just curious - not suggesting any of it is going to happen, I am just not well versed in the finer points of leagues and contracts and by -laws etc. thanks!