Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[Skates]

TJ Warren has to be the most overhyped player out there. He had an entire career of simply being TJ Warren, basically a Thad Young level player in Thad's prime. He went nuts for a bit in the Bubble and was hurt most of last year. Counting on getting Bubble TJ Warren or even 90% of that on any consistent basis going forward is minimal in its likelihood. Not a bad player, but definitely Bubble bias coloring perceptions of who that guy is and isn't.

[76ciology]

TJ Warren has to be the most overhyped player out there. He had an entire career of simply being TJ Warren, basically a Thad Young level player in Thad's prime. He went nuts for a bit in the Bubble and was hurt most of last year. Counting on getting Bubble TJ Warren or even 90% of that on any consistent basis going forward is minimal in its likelihood. Not a bad player, but definitely Bubble bias coloring perceptions of who that guy is and isn't.

Rich man’s Marcus Morris

But he dropped 50+ against Ben

[sixers hoops]

I'm just curious here - because a lot of people are *wanting* packages of players I have never even heard of and/or not even associating with anything remotely close to an approximation of the idea of anything resembling fair compensation for Simmons - so if he sits out, does he get paid?

I have asked a few times and don't think I ever got an answer. I think AD got paid and basically it seemed like it was a PR move - he said he wasn't going to play until get got traded to LA and then they kind of reversed it and said "Oh he's a little injured..." and then maybe he was like "No I'm not, I'm just not playing until you trade me to LA" ... and they reversed it again, "We're holding him out until we resolve this... don't want anything bad to happen..." === he got fully paid (many many millions of dollars a month...) for doing nothing whatsoever.

If Simmons sits out, he will not get paid right? Because I would absolutely call that bluff. I guess the counter would be "he can fake an injury" but is there not some process to deal with that, dare I say "arbitration" or something ... Where the league or some power would be like "We call BS, play or don't get paid.."

I am just curious - not suggesting any of it is going to happen, I am just not well versed in the finer points of leagues and contracts and by -laws etc. thanks!

He would not get paid if he fails to report. He could report and fake an injury, but he would still have to go to the team complex for treatment and be part of the organization to get paid. With several years left on his contract, holding out is a battle he would likely lose.

Klutch has followed a pretty basic leverage schedule.
-request trade behind the scenes with public meeting with Morey.

-leak that he isn’t speaking to any Sixers management.

-publicly demand trade.

*frustration sets in that Morey didn’t do what they want.

-Threaten to get Maxey out as punishment for not trading Ben (backfired)

-Threaten a camp holdout.

-As camp gets closer, you will hear more of Klutch leaks that Ben is willing to sit out and lose pay.

-on the eve of camp, a lot of talk about “will Ben report?” in a final push to get Morey to trade him.

-I could see Ben reporting a day or two late in an effort to get Morey to agree to something.

-My guess is, if it gets this far, Ben reports because Klutch made a threat that will cause their player to lose millions, and didn’t create the desired leverage.

[phillynative]

TJ Warren has to be the most overhyped player out there. He had an entire career of simply being TJ Warren, basically a Thad Young level player in Thad's prime. He went nuts for a bit in the Bubble and was hurt most of last year. Counting on getting Bubble TJ Warren or even 90% of that on any consistent basis going forward is minimal in its likelihood. Not a bad player, but definitely Bubble bias coloring perceptions of who that guy is and isn't.

He can get buckets from anywhere on the floor and knock down shots at a high percentage and the size to shoot over most defenders. It's not really a matter of overhyping him it's just something we haven't had in quite some time. 3 max player and not one of them have this trait.

[Samson]

He would not get paid if he fails to report. He could report and fake an injury, but he would still have to go to the team complex for treatment and be part of the organization to get paid. With several years left on his contract, holding out is a battle he would likely lose.

Klutch has followed a pretty basic leverage schedule.
-request trade behind the scenes with public meeting with Morey.

-leak that he isn’t speaking to any Sixers management.

-publicly demand trade.

*frustration sets in that Morey didn’t do what they want.

-Threaten to get Maxey out as punishment for not trading Ben (backfired)

-Threaten a camp holdout.

-As camp gets closer, you will hear more of Klutch leaks that Ben is willing to sit out and lose pay.

-on the eve of camp, a lot of talk about “will Ben report?” in a final push to get Morey to trade him.

-I could see Ben reporting a day or two late in an effort to get Morey to agree to something.

-My guess is, if it gets this far, Ben reports because Klutch made a threat that will cause their player to lose millions, and didn’t create the desired leverage.

Thank you very much as always brother.

I myself have thought maybe these guys screwed up their plans/demands.... I don't think RP is nearly as smart as he thinks he is (and that goes for BS and LBJ as well - we're talking about a group of people who have seemingly resisted education as much as possible and yet consider themselves the cleverest people in the world...) - there are tons of people in the world who are downright *positive* they are smarter than everyone else, they'll outsmart everyone, they'll never get caught, etc. If you spend a summer saying you're not going to a team, and what was it like, the day after Ben lost the game for us, his agent requests a meeting to "stand by to stand by" on a trade ... "Listen, we're not asking for a TRADE... we're just, maybe, you know, should we maybe discuss you sending my man to the Lakers where he's wanted to be all along? We're not saying, we're just SAYING ... let us know when it gets finalized. Sooner would be gooder, we ain't trying to wait... he's late for a very important date... no time to say Hello Goodbye he's late he's late he's late... (also late to taking that shot...) he just bought a $24 million dollar house with a tree built in and is Instagramming his sports cars bein delivered... so we good then??" I say, Put Up Or Shut Up. You wanted a Supermax Contract, you were given one. You insist on being a Point Guard ? The Floor Is Yours, General. Please,. lead us into battle.

Eventually either public scorn, teammate shame, or lack of pay is going to stimulate him.

I wish I was 20+ years younger and a foot or two taller to show these babies how it's done. Alas, Babylon...

[Eyeamok]

I'm just curious here - because a lot of people are *wanting* packages of players I have never even heard of and/or not even associating with anything remotely close to an approximation of the idea of anything resembling fair compensation for Simmons - so if he sits out, does he get paid?

I have asked a few times and don't think I ever got an answer. I think AD got paid and basically it seemed like it was a PR move - he said he wasn't going to play until get got traded to LA and then they kind of reversed it and said "Oh he's a little injured..." and then maybe he was like "No I'm not, I'm just not playing until you trade me to LA" ... and they reversed it again, "We're holding him out until we resolve this... don't want anything bad to happen..." === he got fully paid (many many millions of dollars a month...) for doing nothing whatsoever.

If Simmons sits out, he will not get paid right? Because I would absolutely call that bluff. I guess the counter would be "he can fake an injury" but is there not some process to deal with that, dare I say "arbitration" or something ... Where the league or some power would be like "We call BS, play or don't get paid.."

I am just curious - not suggesting any of it is going to happen, I am just not well versed in the finer points of leagues and contracts and by -laws etc. thanks!

He would not get paid if he fails to report. He could report and fake an injury, but he would still have to go to the team complex for treatment and be part of the organization to get paid. With several years left on his contract, holding out is a battle he would likely lose.

Klutch has followed a pretty basic leverage schedule.
-request trade behind the scenes with public meeting with Morey.

-leak that he isn’t speaking to any Sixers management.

-publicly demand trade.

*frustration sets in that Morey didn’t do what they want.

-Threaten to get Maxey out as punishment for not trading Ben (backfired)

-Threaten a camp holdout.

-As camp gets closer, you will hear more of Klutch leaks that Ben is willing to sit out and lose pay.

-on the eve of camp, a lot of talk about “will Ben report?” in a final push to get Morey to trade him.

-I could see Ben reporting a day or two late in an effort to get Morey to agree to something.

-My guess is, if it gets this far, Ben reports because Klutch made a threat that will cause their player to lose millions, and didn’t create the desired leverage.

Nice write up. One thing that is nagging at me is endorsements. To me Ben is all about the way he looks. What does this do to his Brand his endorsement clout? This last playoff series cast him in a bad light as a basketball player. Can't imagine to many people running out buying sneakers endorsed by Ben Simmons or Ben Simmons Jerseys. And now this "holdout" also does not put him in a good light. So many people have said he can't stand the pressure, if that is the case, and the general perception, then who or what organization or company would want him to endorse any product they produce? Who want's Ben Simmons staring in any commercials for them?

Maybe I am completely off but he is hurting himself all the way around. Yes he is making $30 million or so a season. But his IG is all about style and building a brand. But yet his antics on and off the court seem to run counter to that.

[spikeslovechild]

I'm just curious here - because a lot of people are *wanting* packages of players I have never even heard of and/or not even associating with anything remotely close to an approximation of the idea of anything resembling fair compensation for Simmons - so if he sits out, does he get paid?

I have asked a few times and don't think I ever got an answer. I think AD got paid and basically it seemed like it was a PR move - he said he wasn't going to play until get got traded to LA and then they kind of reversed it and said "Oh he's a little injured..." and then maybe he was like "No I'm not, I'm just not playing until you trade me to LA" ... and they reversed it again, "We're holding him out until we resolve this... don't want anything bad to happen..." === he got fully paid (many many millions of dollars a month...) for doing nothing whatsoever.

If Simmons sits out, he will not get paid right? Because I would absolutely call that bluff. I guess the counter would be "he can fake an injury" but is there not some process to deal with that, dare I say "arbitration" or something ... Where the league or some power would be like "We call BS, play or don't get paid.."

I am just curious - not suggesting any of it is going to happen, I am just not well versed in the finer points of leagues and contracts and by -laws etc. thanks!

If he sits out then yes Sixers have the choice of not paying him AD went through the motions by showing up but not wanting to play. Like I said part of making him uncomfortable is calling his bluffs which other GM's have sort of refused to do but is common place in other sports.

Like in the NFL holdouts happen as well. Coaches basically say if you are healthy you play (no matter how unhappy you are with the team or contract) and if you don't the fines are automatic.

[Filthadelphia]

Simmons gets half his pay by Oct 1st. So even if he sits he'll still pocket 16 million.

[Zumramania]

It is stupid from Klutch to act like this...they will not force a trade because at this point Ben's value is at its bottom or very close to its bottom I believe. Once the season starts he will start playing or he will start losing money and maybe sponsor deals as some have mentioned. This is Morey, and he will not panic or care about the optics as our previous GM failures. An Ben is not AD and the Sixers are not Pels lol.

Ben has this small leverage in a way that he can threaten with not playing and with hurting the Sixers regular season standings and his value, but in the long run this is just not smart. I believe Morey will wait for a star to become available since Ben is still a much better ammunition for this potential trade than anything he can acquire now with trading him.

[ankle420breaker]

I don't foresee a Cleveland deal that doesn't include Love being too realistic, but I'd be open to a Simmons/Shake for Sexton, Markannen, Rubio, 1st package.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app

[Samson]

Simmons gets half his pay by Oct 1st. So even if he sits he'll still pocket 16 million.

Now see this is how my buddy would say, "The Plot Thickens..."

That's exactly the type of thing I was meaning ... talk about the equivalent of a Loophole.

I could do a lot of nothing with $16 mil lol. Especially knowing I'm still probably getting that $300=-whatever-million eventually anyway.

[mjkvol]

Ben Simmons will never play another game for the Sixers

All of this call his bluff. Let him sit out. And whatnot is not realistic IMO.

Doesn't mean trade him for dirt but Morey got got by not lowering his price a bit near the draft and prior to FA when teams are more willing to make moves. It was a valid tactic but it backfired and now w/ his camp making noise the time for those games are over.

Sexton is not perfect. Beasley is a bad day away from jail time. Derrick White is injury prone and Murray is another non shooting klutch guy. Hali and Fox aren't on the board. Dame isn't walking through that door. There is no magic move to make that makes everyone happy or even one that makes us obviously better. We have to bank on improvement for our youth and hope that Embiid can raise the floor of whatever flawed dude we get back and that and hopefully some picks can be used to attract talent down the line but the bottom line IMO is that Ben is done here and moving him before the season is needed if only to get the stink off the team and allow them to focus on the season. Walking on eggshells and awaiting the obvious move does not help anyone...I mean we saw it wreck Ben himself last year.

its time. Let it go. Move on.

I don't care about Ben whether he sits out or plays or decides to play in China that his decision with the associated repercussions including fines and loss of income. As a fan it's about the Sixers.

Trading him has to accomplish one of three things it either has to bring assets we can flip for a star down the road or bring in an ascending young player who is on track to stardom (not happening) or be part of a package for a star like Lillard. The process is over we messed up on Fultz Simmons is our last remaining major asset. We gain nothing in either the near term or longterm doing anything else is pointless and just placating Simmons to try avoid an uncomfortable situation.

If we need to get uncomfortable to make a move for the kind of package we want then lets just get uncomfortable. Sure as a fan it will suck seeing Simmons sulk either away from the team or on the court but I'd rather do that then make a bad trade. Infact I'd rather not trade him at all and either force him to return or retire then do a bad deal.

What did placating these stars by trading them for lesser win now type moves ever accomplish? Did it help the Cavs when they did it with Irving? How about Kawhi and Demar with the Spurs? No thanks. If the 76ers have to be first team to stand firm then let us he has four years on his deal we can be as patient as needed.

This x 1000.

[eyeatoma]

What a POS

Read on Twitter

[Tomjas]

What a POS

Read on Twitter

It’s Morey’s job

[Sixersftw]

His job was to be good at the game of basketball and he doesn't do that 90% of the time either.

[Tomjas]

His job was to be good at the game of basketball and he doesn't do that 90% of the time either.

If he’s so bad then why are some of you so desperate to have him turn up to training camp?

Won’t affect his value either way as he will still be ****

Right?

[Mik317]

yall get mad over the same comments made before.

This is nothing new.

Going to see who jumps first is all.

.....I will say this. Morey may not care. Klutch can spin it into a narrative.

Josh Harris and Co....don't seem like they like bad press. Shamed into pushing Hinkie out. Shamed into pushing Bryan out. Shamed into paying their employees by Embiid.


Just something to think about lol

(we are going to **** this up someway...somehow lol)

[eyeatoma]

What a POS

Read on Twitter

It’s Morey’s job

Lol, it's actually not.

[Stanford]

Of course it's not his job to fix his trade value. But he wants a trade and that become easier if his trade value isn't at an all-time low. Dumb position from Rich Paul who I'm certain is not good at his job.

By the way, it is his job to get better at the sport at basketball. He hasn't cared about what his job is for five years.

[Tomjas]

What a POS

Read on Twitter

It’s Morey’s job

Lol, it's actually not.

Everyone with a pulse has known for months that Ben was being traded

It’s up to Morey to get value

Pretty simple