Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[dbodner]

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

Hah. It seems Lloyd is better at calling others stupid and lazy than he is at holding himself accountable.

From June 3rd on who to take if the Sixers fell to 6:

If the dooms day scenario had played out and the 76ers only came away from the lottery with #6, this would be a very tough decision. Monk is a bit of a reach here, but Tatum and Fox aren't special and won't move the needle much. I'd probably hold my nose and take Monk here, if the Draft played out this way.

On May 28th, Lloyd had Josh Jackson #2 and Jayson Tatum #7.

Here's Lloyd on Tatum on June 13th.

I like players who can "boogie" on a defender and his. But the college game is a totally different sport. If you don't have that burst to beat a superior athlete, that "boogie" goes away in the pros. If he can't get around or over his defender in the pros, that "Boogie" don't mean nothin'.

I post in the draft thread all year. All of this is there, and everybody has already seen it. This isn't new. Had arguments all year, about it, that's why your flock does daily updates in every thread on Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson's bad games. It makes them feel good. You're not posting anything that everybody doesn't already know.
My take on Jackson over Tatum isn't any worse than your Okafor over Porzingis or your Markelle Fultz as sure thing #1.

If you think this is a contest to find out who had the worst take, you're missing all the points of why this was brought up. Hypocrite. I don't come around here all that often anymore so ty for quickly pointing out who should be added to the ignored list.

*edit*
Funny thing. I checked my ignore list and there's only one other name on there: Point-God. Heh.

[LloydFree]

Hah. It seems Lloyd is better at calling others stupid and lazy than he is at holding himself accountable.

From June 3rd on who to take if the Sixers fell to 6:


On May 28th, Lloyd had Josh Jackson #2 and Jayson Tatum #7.

Here's Lloyd on Tatum on June 13th.

I post in the draft thread all year. All of this is there, and everybody has already seen it. This isn't new. Had arguments all year, about it, that's why your flock does daily updates in every thread on Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson's bad games. It makes them feel good. You're not posting anything that everybody doesn't already know.
My take on Jackson over Tatum isn't any worse than your Okafor over Porzingis or your Markelle Fultz as sure thing #1.

If you think this is a contest to find out who had the worst take, you're missing all the points of why this was brought up. Hypocrite. I don't come around here all that often anymore so for quickly pointing out who should be added to the ignored list.

You've said that before. Who cares.

[freshie2]

My guess is everybody hits on some and everybody misses on some...my judgement will come when Fultz has an opportunity to play for an extended period of time over the next 2-3 seasons. Obviously if the cost is a 2-5 pick in one of the next two drafts that will drive the discussion and expectations as well. It will be nice to just see him play...

[cksdayoff]

fultz is the best guard prospect since kyrie. he's gonna change the dynamics of this team

[JojoSlimbiid]

Have a feeling the board is going to be getting some heavy moderation soon. They better do that after Fultz comes back and let me puff my chest out and get my I told you so's out before they do that. I got quotes and comments cooking in the oven....not about to let yall turn the power off while the meal is getting prepared. I'm gonna eat

[LloydFree]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

[phiphan]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

We’ve had that many times. Lloyd posts a big board every draft either here or on draft board. And Derek has posted his for years here and on liberty ballers.

I think it would be great for credibility if we actually bookmark those threads for easy access. However, they did exist for most drafts on this board.

Not really. People sporadically post their top 10s all the time, sure, but I'm talking about a thread on the Philadelphia 76ers board dedicated only to draft boards with little to no cross-talk. Sticky and lock after the draft.

[phiphan]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

We're cowards.

But I think a separate thread would get more traction.

[XtremeDunkz]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

I don't need people to know how bad my scouting is. Although this year I would have looked pretty damn good.

[XDevilBoiX]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

I wouldn’t participate because I don’t follow college bb and not a scout of any thing except for women lol

[cksdayoff]

we won't know the finished product on these guys for the next 5 years anyways

[LloydFree]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

We're cowards.

But I think a separate thread would get more traction.

Ehhh. Nobody sees everybody. And its too much work, just to to be mocked as an "Armchair GM" and "contrarian" the minute your opinion deviates from the 2 draft sites.

[Negrodamus]

Maybe one day everyone will remember this is all for fun and we are all just fans of the this team. None of what we say or do will have an affect on this team or the personnel. That should be in the back of everyone's mind when posting their impassioned responses.

[sixers hoops]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

We're cowards.

But I think a separate thread would get more traction.

We can def do that.

[sixers hoops]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

I asked for that in the draft threads repeatedly last year. The only people who posted were Negrodamus, SmittyB and Me. Nobody else seemed interested.

We're cowards.

But I think a separate thread would get more traction.

We can def do that.

[ProcessDoctor]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

I also think we gave up too much but come on man... the fact that Tatum has been better than anyone expected perhaps shows that you don't know as much as you claim? but nope of course, you always knew right?

My issue is that you don't even give Fultz a chance to prove you wrong. Lonzo played like **** but it was always "its still too early". Same w/ Jackson. And w/ Lonzo that is proving to be correct. So why doesn't Fultz even get that same chance? I think your boner to prove people wrong clouds you and makes your posts seem so spiteful and smug....I don't even disagree w/ you but geez man.

I didn't like Tatum anymore than Fultz. I had them #5 and #6. I don't have any problem saying it, because I posted and updated my board all year in the draft thread. I liked Jackson better than Tatum and thought Boston should have taken Jackson, because I thought he had more athletic upside. That doesn't mean that I didnt say I thought Tatum was a Danny Granger. Its in the draft threads. I wouldn't trade two top 5 lottery picks for Danny Granger either. He wasn't that kind of player and Tatum isn't that kind of player. I haven't contradicted anything.

As far as Ball is concerned, he's about what I expected. His season is the same as Kidd's rookie season, numbers wise. I don't expect any one-and-done rookie to look great in year one. I'm not giving Ball or Jackson any breaks that I'm withholding from Fultz. I just haven't changed my mind on what I think of the prospects except that I underestimated Mitchell and Markennen by a lot. Nobody else has done anything this year that they didn't show in college last year.

What are you talking about RE: Ball? Ball’s impact right now is not even close to Kidd’s as a rookie.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Lonzo+Ball&player_id1_select=Lonzo+Ball&y1=2018&player_id1=balllo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jason+Kidd&player_id2_select=Jason+Kidd&y2=1995&player_id2=kiddja01&idx=players

[Baller1234a]

If Tatum shoots 50% of his shots behind the three point line for his career and becomes the best shooter in the history of the NBA then it's probably fair to say that the Celtics would "win" this trade.

However the whole "winning" a trade is kind of hard because there are so many factors influencing the outcome and both teams have different needs. Fultz is drafted because of his excellent fit with Embiid and Simmons, so if he becomes the player we want him to be, the win is successful from Sixers perspective.
This means that Fultz has to become the dynamic scorer he was projected to become and probably provide some defensive versatility as a big guard with massive arms.

If Tatum pans out and the Celtics draft Ayton at 2 it's definitely a fantastic outcome for the Celtics, but that's a scenario that the Sixers knew was possible and are willing to live with. It's about the future of the Sixers, not the Celtics.

While I somewhat agree with the statement both teams can win the trade I think this specific trade is pretty different for 1 key reason

The fact that PHI and BOS will be competing for the conference for the next decade.
Now of course things can happen to change that (Embiid (god forbid) going down or Kyrie going down)
But that seems the most likely scenario for the foreseeable future (maybe the Bucks?)

So the real question is... even if you get the better fitting player if you give up more pure talent (that’s a great fit fit them in Tatum and hopefully Ayton or Bagley) to your main rival do you still “win” the trade?

And OT As for Tatum he doesn’t need to be shooting 50 percent from 3 to be this efficient(as we discussed on the Celtics board over what he showed in yesterday’s game)

Well can't this thinking be reversed as well? If Boston thinks that Philly could be the main treat in the upcoming years then why give us the opportunity to draft the theoretically perfect complementary piece?

No. Let me explain.
Tatum and a big(hopefully) would be more pure talent and a better fit for BOSTON than a PG(Fultz or Lonzo).
So in Boston’s mindset they were getting more talent AND a better fit while giving their main rival less pure talent but a better fit
In PHI mindset they are getting less talent but a better fit while giving their main rival more talent and a better fit.

Hope that made sense. Maybe I’m being a homer idk but that’s my thought process.

[PhilasFinest]

While I somewhat agree with the statement both teams can win the trade I think this specific trade is pretty different for 1 key reason

The fact that PHI and BOS will be competing for the conference for the next decade.
Now of course things can happen to change that (Embiid (god forbid) going down or Kyrie going down)
But that seems the most likely scenario for the foreseeable future (maybe the Bucks?)

So the real question is... even if you get the better fitting player if you give up more pure talent (that’s a great fit fit them in Tatum and hopefully Ayton or Bagley) to your main rival do you still “win” the trade?

And OT As for Tatum he doesn’t need to be shooting 50 percent from 3 to be this efficient(as we discussed on the Celtics board over what he showed in yesterday’s game)

Well can't this thinking be reversed as well? If Boston thinks that Philly could be the main treat in the upcoming years then why give us the opportunity to draft the theoretically perfect complementary piece?

No. Let me explain.
Tatum and a big(hopefully) would be more pure talent and a better fit for BOSTON than a PG(Fultz or Lonzo).
So in Boston’s mindset they were getting more talent AND a better fit while giving their main rival less pure talent but a better fit
In PHI mindset they are getting less talent but a better fit while giving their main rival more talent and a better fit.

Hope that made sense. Maybe I’m being a homer idk but that’s my thought process.

What’s left is right and what’s right is left?

Did you steal that quote from NBADraft.net or make it up all on your own?

[LongLiveHinkie]

The Sixers made the trade because they wanted the more talented player and a better fit. They said as much a million times after they made the trade.

The difference between Philly and that other city north of us is the media here is usually pretty cynical or impartial, where the media there is one giant propaganda machine, so fans there are typically brainwashed into believing completely close-minded and heavily slanted narratives.

[Baller1234a]

Well can't this thinking be reversed as well? If Boston thinks that Philly could be the main treat in the upcoming years then why give us the opportunity to draft the theoretically perfect complementary piece?

No. Let me explain.
Tatum and a big(hopefully) would be more pure talent and a better fit for BOSTON than a PG(Fultz or Lonzo).
So in Boston’s mindset they were getting more talent AND a better fit while giving their main rival less pure talent but a better fit
In PHI mindset they are getting less talent but a better fit while giving their main rival more talent and a better fit.

Hope that made sense. Maybe I’m being a homer idk but that’s my thought process.

What’s left is right and what’s right is left?

Did you steal that quote from NBADraft.net or make it up all on your own?

If you have a diffrent thought process or idea on the trade post it. No need to resort to trolling.