2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[SelfishPlayer]

Anything past 10 feet would include 3 pointers, we already agree that he's bad at that, what is he shooting on 10-15 footers?

As of December 23rd, 27% from 10 feet to 3 point line and 15.4% from 3 and on. I cant find any more updated specific distances for his shooting numbers though so idk if that has changed or not

http://hoop-math.com/Kentucky2017.php

For a slashing guard, his finishing rate at the rim is fairly suspect for a NBA prospect.

How is that the case when he is currently finishing 65.5% at the rim while Fultz is finishing 61.4%, Dennis Smith is at 66.2%, last season Kris Dunn was at 62.6%, Damian Lillard his last college season was at 59.9%, Marcus Smart his last college season was at 64.9, D'Angelo Russell his last college season was at 62.2%. Jordan Clarson his last college season shot 59.6% at the rim. C.J. McCollum his last college season shot 54.8% at the rim. Victor Oladipo his last college season shot 69.9% at the rim.

You have access to those great statistics and still managed to make a blunder.

[smittybanton]

Saturday, January 7th

Pittsburgh v. Syracuse, noon/ACCN (Tyler Lydon)
East Carolina v. Temple, noon/ESPN3 (Obe Enenchionya)
#18 Butler v. Georgetown, noon/FOX (Kelan Martin)
Michigan St. v. Penn St., 1pm/ESPN (Miles Bridges)
TCU v. #7 West Virginia, 1pm/ESPNU (Javon Carter)
Texas A&M v. South Carolina, 1:30/CBS (Rodney Williams, DJ Hogg) (PJ Dozier)
Boston College v. #8 Duke, 2pm/ACCN (Jayson Tatum, Harry Giles, Luke Kennard, Grayson Allen, Marques Bolden, Frank Jackson)
#21 Virgina Tech v. #12 Florida St., 2pm/ACCN (Jonathan Isaac, Dwayne Bacon, Terrence Mann)
#9 Louisville v. Georgia Tech, 2pm/ACCN (Donovan Mitchell)
St. John's v. #16 Xavier, 2:30/FS1 (Shamorie Ponds v. Edmond Sumner!!!)
Clemson v. #23 Notre Dame, 3pm/ESPNU (Jaron Blossomgame) (Bonzi COlson)
Oregon St. v. Washington, 3pm/PAC12 (Markelle Fultz, Mathisse Thybulle)
Maryland v. Michigan, 3:15/ESPN2 (Melo Trimble) (Zak Irvin)
Illinois v. #25 Indiana, 5pm/ESPNU (Malcolm Hill) (Thomas Bryant Jr., OG Anunoby)
Utah v. Arizona St, 5pm/PAC12 (Kyle Kuzma)
South Florida v. SMU, 5pm/ESPNN (Semi Ojeleye, Shake Milton)
Tennessee v. #24 Florida, 5:15/ESPN2 (Devin Robinson)
UNLV v. Utah St., 6pm/CBSSN (Jaylen Poyser)
#15 Oregon v. #2 Baylor, 7pm/ESPNN (Chris Boucher, Dillon Brooks, Jordan Bell, Tyler Dorsey) (Jonothan Motley)
Texas Tech v. #3 Kansas, 7:15/ESPN2 (Josh Jackson, Devonte Graham, Svi Mihailiuk, Azuibuike)
Marquette v. #1 Villanova, 7:30/FS1 (Jason Hart, Mikal Bridges, Jalen Brunson)
NC State v. #14 North Carolina, 8pm/ESPN (Dennis Smith Jr.) (Justin Jackson, Tony Bradley)
Arkansas v. #6 Kentucky, 8:30/SECN (DeAaron Fox, Malik Monk, Edrice Adebayo, Isaiah Briscoe)
Colorado v. #17 Arizona, 9:30/PAC12 (Derrick White) (Lauri Markkanen, Rawle Alkins, Kobi Simmons, Allonzo Trier)
Texas v. Iowa St., 9:15/ESPN2 (Jarrett Allen) (Monte Morris)
#5 Gonzaga v. Portland, 10pm/ESPN3 (Zack Collins, Nigel Goss Williams)

Sunday, January 8th

Memphis v. Tulane, 3pm/ESPN3 (Dedric Lawson)
#13 Wisconsin v. #20 Purdue, 4:30/CBS (Nigel Hayes) (Caleb Swanigan)
Rutgers v. Iowa, 4:30/BTN (Peter Jok)
Stanford v. #4 UCLA, 8pm/FS1 (Lonzo Ball, TJ Leaf, Aaron Holiday)
California v. #25 USC, 10pm/ESPNU (Ivan Rabb)

[shawn_hemp]

I think Fox is a really gifted athlete who will definitely make a living in the NBA off defense and hustle plays.

I think he is more athletic than Elfrid Payton and seems to have better floor vision as well

But I wouldnt want him on the sixers

[CptCrunch]

As of December 23rd, 27% from 10 feet to 3 point line and 15.4% from 3 and on. I cant find any more updated specific distances for his shooting numbers though so idk if that has changed or not

http://hoop-math.com/Kentucky2017.php

For a slashing guard, his finishing rate at the rim is fairly suspect for a NBA prospect.

How is that the case when he is currently finishing 65.5% at the rim while Fultz is finishing 61.4%, Dennis Smith is at 66.2%, last season Kris Dunn was at 62.6%, Damian Lillard his last college season was at 59.9%, Marcus Smart his last college season was at 64.9, D'Angelo Russell his last college season was at 62.2%. Jordan Clarson his last college season shot 59.6% at the rim. C.J. McCollum his last college season shot 54.8% at the rim. Victor Oladipo his last college season shot 69.9% at the rim.

You have access to those great statistics and still managed to make a blunder.

You have to look at the system. You can't look at it in isolation. Kentucky is 10x more stacked than NC State or Washington. His finishing rate on his team is lower than his NBA caliber teammates. His finishing rate is literally lowest among his rotation minute teammates. His finishing also doesn't pass the eye test. His finishing could improve because he is so frail right now, but the complete utter lack of a jump shot is troubling for a NBA level guard.

Lillard was always known as that due who can't finish in the NBA. Other players are either not scoring guards or could actually shoot. When your only offensive skill is slashing, you have to finish at an elite rate.

[SelfishPlayer]

http://hoop-math.com/Kentucky2017.php

For a slashing guard, his finishing rate at the rim is fairly suspect for a NBA prospect.

How is that the case when he is currently finishing 65.5% at the rim while Fultz is finishing 61.4%, Dennis Smith is at 66.2%, last season Kris Dunn was at 62.6%, Damian Lillard his last college season was at 59.9%, Marcus Smart his last college season was at 64.9, D'Angelo Russell his last college season was at 62.2%. Jordan Clarson his last college season shot 59.6% at the rim. C.J. McCollum his last college season shot 54.8% at the rim. Victor Oladipo his last college season shot 69.9% at the rim.

You have access to those great statistics and still managed to make a blunder.

You have to look at the system. You can't look at it in isolation. Kentucky is 10x more stacked than NC State or Washington. His finishing rate on his team is lower than his NBA caliber teammates. His finishing rate is literally lowest among his rotation minute teammates. His finishing also doesn't pass the eye test.

I thought that's what you did. You compared him to his current teammates instead of comparing him to all of the players that have played college basketball whom have stats viewable on that website. He plays at Kentucky, he is surrounded by the cream of the crop. The reason why his teammates have better finishing percentages at the rim is because they are awesome players too. Jamal Murray played in the same Kentucky system last year and shot 65.5% at the rim. Kentucky recruits the best players and they continue to perform excellently as a team and as individuals. You are attempting to knock him for playing at Kentucky as if he wasn't a McDonald's All American and he's just coasting along reaping the benefits of playing with the cream of the crop. Just stick to him not having an outside jumpshot and let it rest. In your world he has to shoot 80% at the rim to be satisfactory.

[smittybanton]

Jonathan Isaac reminds a little of Tim Thomas. The nice shooting stroke, the NBA frame, playing outside more than in, floating/unselfish. Just a little.

[CptCrunch]

How is that the case when he is currently finishing 65.5% at the rim while Fultz is finishing 61.4%, Dennis Smith is at 66.2%, last season Kris Dunn was at 62.6%, Damian Lillard his last college season was at 59.9%, Marcus Smart his last college season was at 64.9, D'Angelo Russell his last college season was at 62.2%. Jordan Clarson his last college season shot 59.6% at the rim. C.J. McCollum his last college season shot 54.8% at the rim. Victor Oladipo his last college season shot 69.9% at the rim.

You have access to those great statistics and still managed to make a blunder.

You have to look at the system. You can't look at it in isolation. Kentucky is 10x more stacked than NC State or Washington. His finishing rate on his team is lower than his NBA caliber teammates. His finishing rate is literally lowest among his rotation minute teammates. His finishing also doesn't pass the eye test.

I thought that's what you did. You compared him to his current teammates instead of comparing him to all of the players that have played college basketball whom have stats viewable on that website. He plays at Kentucky, he is surrounded by the cream of the crop. The reason why his teammates have better finishing percentages at the rim is because they are awesome players too. Jamal Murray played in the same Kentucky system last year and shot 65.5% at the rim. Kentucky recruits the best players and they continue to perform excellently as a team and as individuals. You are attempting to knock him for playing at Kentucky as if he wasn't a McDonald's All American and he's just coasting along reaping the benefits of playing with the cream of the crop. Just stick to him not having an outside jumpshot and let it rest. In your world he has to shoot 80% at the rim to be satisfactory.

You are not understanding a simple statistical concept. We regress out of the group mean to extract the effects of the individuals. There is a 'baseline effect' of playing of playing at Kentucky. This thing is a thing because most Kentucky players are awesome, which affords everyone on the team easier shots.

Just to help you understand. Let me give you some examples in the NBA. Cavs, Rockets and Warriors role players all shoot amazingly well at 3. Are they better at shooting than role players on other teams? Perhaps, but most of the their shooting proneness can be attributed to the team, the composition of superstar players who draw attention so that role players can shoot open jumpers. Field goal has a both team and individual component.

If we think of this as an mixed hierarchical model. The team component would be a group level random intercept, and the individual effect would be an sub model with its own co-variates.

[SelfishPlayer]

There is a 'baseline effect' of playing of playing at Kentucky.

This "baseline effect" didn't help Marquis Teague with his finishing at the rim in 2011-12. He only shot 55.5% at the rim while playing with Anthony Davis and the rest of the guys. Playing at Kentucky doesn't inflate your ability to finish hence Tyler Ulis only shooting 57.8% at the rim last year.

[Ericb5]

Another step in the return of Giles today. If he keeps on this path he will be a top 3 pick by draft time.


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[PhilasFinest]

Another step in the return of Giles today. If he keeps on this path he will be a top 3 pick by draft time.


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God bless that team's GM.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I like Fox and Monk from Kentucky. Fox a bit more from what I've seen. He reminds me of Jamal Crawford and Rolando Blackman. If he improves his outside shot he'll be a nice guard.

[LongLiveHinkie]

There's nothing more I want to see out of college basketball this season than someone punching Grayson Allen in the face as hard as they can. He tried to trip someone else, and the guy is just a loser. I hope the next person he trips just turns around and drops him cold. It would be the most amazing thing ever.

[tsmith]

There's nothing more I want to see out of college basketball this season than someone punching Grayson Allen in the face as hard as they can. He tried to trip someone else, and the guy is just a loser. I hope the next person he trips just turns around and drops him cold. It would be the most amazing thing ever.

Everything about him screams rich kid that never had to work for anything.

[HankTheTank]

I have a hard time projecting ideal draft picks until we know whether or not PG is Simmons position long term. He could be, in the mold of Giannis, but it's not a certainty. That's what the 2nd half of the season will be for.

Assuming he is a PG, for fit I like:

Jackson: will be one of the more athletic players in the league and a defensive demon. I'm ok with his below avg shooting because of his versatility.
Fultz: on paper he is a perfect fit-- size, wingspan, combo guard so he can take some ball handling responsibilities, decent shooter. I think he'll be a scorer but wonder if he's a willing defender. Just need to see more from him.
Ball: the concerns are real, but so much to like. Shot is fugly, but players that see the floor and distribute like him are so rare
Tatum: looks to be a prototype SF. Productive and a committed defender
Monk: a much needed elite shooter, size and length concerns, can he defend nba pg's?
Smith Jr: just love his game, explosive athlete, obviously short, and a true pg who would move up if Simmons is a 4
Ntilikina: intrigued. I've watched all the available video, much of it shot from a go pro in the rafters. love the wingspan, but until he's worked out by teams he is a mystery.
Isaac: great measurables, watched him play Temple and he looked raw but potentially special to me.
Giles: obviously only a fit if Simmons is a pg, and he stays healthy, but might be talented enough to take a chance on with Lakers pick.

[BigSleep333]

There's nothing more I want to see out of college basketball this season than someone punching Grayson Allen in the face as hard as they can. He tried to trip someone else, and the guy is just a loser. I hope the next person he trips just turns around and drops him cold. It would be the most amazing thing ever.

Everything about him screams rich kid that never had to work for anything.

he always tweets some religious stuff. always suspicous to me

[cksdayoff]

I have a hard time projecting ideal draft picks until we know whether or not PG is Simmons position long term. He could be, in the mold of Giannis, but it's not a certainty. That's what the 2nd half of the season will be for.

we need to just keep it simple. We need to draft shooters/scorers. The fact that Simmons will be the main facilitator doesn't necessarily mean we go big in the draft, it just means we need more talent who can score in transition, and can space the floor so Simmons can do his thing

Tatum might hold more value than Josh Jackson, and I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of Tatum as of now

[cksdayoff]

Watch on YouTube

his teammate literally steps on Fultz ankle at the end of the game, looked gross as hell. i held my breath, but fortunately fultz got up and limped back to the bench. He could've tore his achilles or something

[smittybanton]

DJ Hogg 25pts (9-13, 7-9, 0-0) 5rbs, 3asts, stl, blk, 6tos
Rodney Wiliams 12pts (6-11, 0-0, 0-1) 14rbs, ast, 2blks, 6to
PJ Dozier 8pts (3-12, 1-5, 1-2) 4rbs, 4asts, 2stls, to
Sindarious Thornwell 16pts (6-16, 1-6, 3-4) 7rbs, 2asts, 5stls, to
Semi Ojeleye 21pts (7-13, 2-4, 5-6) 8rbs, 3asts, stl, 2to
Shake Milton 6pts (2-8, 2-7, 0-0) 2rbs, 8asts, stls, 2blks, 3to
Javon Carter 13pts (5-12, 3-7, 0-0) 2rbs, 5asts, 2to
Kelan Martin 13pts (3-13, 0-4, 7-9) 10rbs, 2asts, to
Jaylen Poyser 9pts (3-9, 2-4, 1-2) 2rbs, ast, stl, to
Jayson Tatum 22pts (6-9, 1-2, 9-10) 6rbs, 3asts, 4stls, 2blks, 5to
Harry Giles 12pts/24min (5-8, 0-0, 2-3) 5rbs, ast, stl, blk, to, 5pf
Grayson Allen 12pts (5-9, 2-6, 0-2) 5rbs, 11asts, 3stls, 5to
Luke Kennard 9pts (2-6, 1-2, 4-5) 4rbs, ast, stl, blk, 0to
Marques Bolden 2pts/7min
Frank Jackson 15pts/25min (4-9, 2-6, 5-8) 3rbs, stl, to
Donovan Mitchell 20pts (6-15, 5-7, 3-5) 3rbs, 4asts, stl, 3blks, to
Jonathan Isaac 13pts (4-7, 0-1, 5-6) 8rbs, 2asts, stl, blk, to
Dwayne Bacon 17pts (6-16, 0-3, 5-5) 6rbs, ast, 2stls, blk, 4to
Terrence Mann 22pts (7-11, 2-2, 6-8) 9rbs, ast,, stl, to
Jaron Blossomgame 22pts (9-17, 0-1, 4-4) 8rbs, ast, to
Bonzi Colson 13pts (5-10, 1-3, 2-2) 12rbs, 3asts, blk
Devin Robinson 4pts/14min/4to
Malcolm Hill 21pts (5-12, 0-3, 11-13) 4rbs, 3asts, stl, 2to
Thomas Bryant Jr. 20pts (6-6, 2-2, 6-8) 6rbs, ast, stl, 2blks, to
OG Anunoby 12pts (4-6, 1-2, 3-4) 4rbs, 3asts, 2blks, 0to
Shamorie Ponds 21pts (7-14, 3-8, 4-6) 7rbs, 5asts, to
Marcus LoVett 32pts (10-14, 4-7, 8-8) 5rbs, 3asts, stl, 6to
Tyler Lydon 13pts (5-9, 1-2, 2-2) 5rbs, 3asts, 2blks, to
Melo Trimble 13pts (5-15, 2-4, 1-2) 6rbs, 4asts, 3stls, 2to
Zack Irvin 15pts (6-13, 1-3, 2-3) 3rbs, 3asts, stl, blk, 5to
Markelle Fultz 20pts (7-13, 1-2, 5-6) 3rbs, 5asts, 2stls, 0to
Mathisse Thybulle 17pts (7-12, 3-6, 0-0) 2rbs, 4to, to
Edmond Sumner 20pts (8-12 1-3, 3-6) 5rbs, 7asts, 3stls, 2to
Edrice Adebayo 11pts (3-5, 0-0, 5-10) 7rbs, ast, stl, blk, to
Malik Monk 12pts (4-10, 0-5, 4-6) reb, 3asts, stl, to
Isaiah Briscoe 15pts (4-11, 0-1, 7-9) rbs, ast, 2to
DeAaron Fox 27pts (10-16, 0-2, 7-7) 6rbs, 6asts, stl, 2to
Mikal Bridges 15pts (4-4, 3-3, 4-4) 4rbs, 4asts, 2stls, 2blks, to
Jason Hart 19pts (8-13, 2-5, 1-3) 5rbs, 7asts, stl, to
Jalen Brunson 16pts (5-7, 3-3, 3-5) 5rbs, 4asts, 3to
Jawun Evans 8pts (2-12, 1-3, 3-5) 3rbs, 5asts, stl, 3to
Jonothan Motley 13pts (4-6, 1-2, 4-6) 10rbs, 3asts, 3bks, 2to
Landon Lucas 8pts (3-6, 0-0, 2-3) 6rbs, ast, 2blks, to
Devonte Graham 20pts (8-14, 4-8 0-0) 3rbs, 4asts, stl, 4to
Josh Jackson 17pts (7-15, 1-2, 2-3) 10rbs, ast, 2stls, 3blks, 2to
Svi Mykhailiuk 5pts (2-5, 1-3, 0-0) 4rbs, 2stls, to
Jordan Bell 11pts/17min, 3rbs, 4asts, stl, 2to
Dillon Brooks 7pts/7min
Chris Boucher 29pts (11-15, 6-9, 1-1) 8rbs, ast, 3blks, 0to
Kyle Kuzma 26pts (11-17, 3-4, 1-5) 12rbs, 4asts, stl, 2blks, 2to
Miles Bridges 4pts (2-8, 0-3, 0-0) 6rbs, 2asts, stl, blk, 3to

[CoreyGallagher]

Nothing to do with a particular prospect, but check this out.

Read on Twitter

[sixers hoops]

Nothing to do with a particular prospect, but check this out.

Read on Twitter

Wow