2025 NBA Draft (2)

[Black Mage]

How much more usage does Tre need or want? He was already at 29% at Texas which is huge. Even Kevin Durant was only 33% usage. He isn't going to get close to that usage on the Sixers. I have a hard time gambling with a guy who checks out if things don't go his way on offense. Joel's kinda burnt me out on that.

I honestly don't think usage was the source of his frustration.

Many people don't realize that Tre Johnson was actually their SF. Their backcourt was comprised of Jordan Pope (12.9% assist) and Tramon Mark (11.7% assist).

Texas ranked 231st in assists and had a starting backcourt that had no interest in making plays for anyone other than themselves. That's obviosuly not going to happen in the NBA where 95% of starting Gs have a 20% or higher assist percentage.

All fair points, but Ace wasn't exactly in a great situation and he didn't exhibit bad body language. Rutgers was 284th in assists. There's no reporting on Ace showing bad body language or checking-out in the middle of games. Ace still hustled back and played defense.

Think back to some of those Joel games where he doesn't have it going or the offense isn't getting him the ball in the post when he wants. We could all see his frustration, the flapping of the arms, knowing he was about to do something stupid trying to play hero ball and either turn it over, take an awful shot or grift for a foul. Tre displayed some of that too (except for the grifting thank god).

[Kobblehead]

I don't want to neg Ace or Tre because I like them both.

Ace has length, youth, and defense.
Tre has length, youth, and offense.

Both would be great selections in my eyes.

[Black Mage]

Is there anyone projected to go into the mid-to-late teens that you'd be willing to give up the LAC pick for?

I get that pick has mythical level value around here, but realistically, let's say the Spurs or Thunder are willing to swap their pick (14 or 15) for a high variance future pick.

Would you? Who you taking? CMB? Sorbet? What if a guy like Queen or Kasparas falls there?

Absolutely. This draft is deep enough that one or more of the projected lottery picks are likely to drop as late risers like Essengue or another international player get drafted higher than their projections. And the bonus would be that it is no longer there as a temptation to use in a win-now trade.

Totally agree this is a deep draft and there's going to be real talents left in the teens. For me the pick to target is Spurs at 14 to beat out OKC at 15. I don't know if I'd do Clippers pick, but I'd definitely offer a Sixers future pick and maybe a 2nd. Spurs might do that deal if we don't put heavy protections on it, maybe a Top 3 or 4 protection.

[Kobblehead]

What if...

...someone gets to CMB and teaches him how to shoot?

He already has the youth, length, scoring, rebounding, playmaking, defense.

[Arsenal]

What if...

...someone gets to CMB and teaches him how to shoot?

He already has the youth, length, scoring, rebounding, playmaking, defense.

Learning to shoot is all he needs. Sadly his shot looks beyond busted.

[Black Mage]

I don't want to neg Ace or Tre because I like them both.

Ace has lengh, youth, and defense.
Tre has length, youth, and offense.

Both would be great selections in my eyes.

I may come off as neg on Tre; but I'm really not. Still Top 3, still see ways to elite star level play, at least offensively. I just point out where analysis of prospects isn't being applied consistently across the prospects.

Ace has serious issues, the handle is a big red flag. Right now, I feel like his handle is a tick above Covington's. Covington would attack a close out and you're holding your breath that the ball is still with Covington by the time he reaches the rim; but you're also not comfortable that Ace is going to be able to utilize his speed b/c his dribble is holding him back, allowing the driving lane to close up and Ace is either risking a charge or pulling up instead of smashing home a dunk or layup. His shot diet must change early in his career. He needs to be able to buy-in on impacting the game off-ball, as a finisher and on defense. Also, for as great as Ace's shooting mechanics are and he has touch; there's just something about his shot when it hits the basket. I can't put my finger on what it is exactly, it's not a heavy ball or a dead ball, but it isn't clean and smooth like Tre's either. I read somewhere that Ace's arc on his shot isn't consistent so maybe that's why some shots look like butter and others are a bit more of an adventure even if they go in.

There are a multitude of other reasons why Ace is still 1st of my Top 3; but I'll put up a post about my final 3 closer to draft when I've finalized my thoughts. Just thought I put this here now to shock some folks that omg Black actually does have criticisms for Ace!

[youngcrev]

If they end up going Tre, I love the idea of getting a 2nd 1st round pick to get CMB to try to balance out the lack of defense at guard. Drafting for needs is where you get in trouble though.

[76ciology]

What if...

...someone gets to CMB and teaches him how to shoot?

He already has the youth, length, scoring, rebounding, playmaking, defense.

When it comes to these prospects, I always want others to take that risk.

[Foshan]

If they end up going Tre, I love the idea of getting a 2nd 1st round pick to get CMB to try to balance out the lack of defense at guard. Drafting for needs is where you get in trouble though.

I feel like if we are not swinging for the fences convinced at 3... then i am really hoping that the trade down gets us a good 2nd pick in the end of the lotto area.

[76ciology]

Bright side in drafting Tre is he’s the kind of rookie who’ll make noise right away with his scoring. Morey would love that, he’s exactly the type you can dangle at the deadline if Milwaukee ever picks up the phone about Giannis.

I dont think you can do that with VJ or Kon.

[76ciology]

Instead of CMB, I’d rather target Rasheer Fleming, who’s now projected around the 20th pick. He’s longer, has a more reliable shot, and brings solid stocks numbers.

[youngcrev]

If Tre is their guy and they're absolutely sure the Hornets are going VJ, squeezing #21 out of Ainge feels reasonable to swap 3 and 5. Maybe you can get a couple spots higher with #35 and maintain future picks.

[youngcrev]

Bright side in drafting Tre is he’s the kind of rookie who’ll make noise right away with his scoring. Morey would love that, he’s exactly the type you can dangle at the deadline if Milwaukee ever picks up the phone about Giannis.

I dont think you can do that with VJ or Kon.

I'm not sure if that's true given the team context. If healthy he's pretty far down in the pecking order.

[Kobblehead]

Fleming has ridiculous, C-quality length and can shoot the lights out. Ideally, he can play next to Embiid and fuction as a major spacing threat on offense. On defense, he can be an elite secondary paint protector.

On a championship team, he'd play the Bobby Portis role.

[76ciology]

Bright side in drafting Tre is he’s the kind of rookie who’ll make noise right away with his scoring. Morey would love that, he’s exactly the type you can dangle at the deadline if Milwaukee ever picks up the phone about Giannis.

I dont think you can do that with VJ or Kon.

I'm not sure if that's true given the team context. If healthy he's pretty far down in the pecking order.

If the goal is to maintain flexibility heading into the trade deadline, like I mentioned earlier, we can easily slide Grimes into more backup SF minutes and give Tre more run at SG as 6th man microwave scorer. Then once the deadline passes, we flip the switch and tighten the rotation into more of a playoff setup.

Maxey/McCain
Grimes/Tre Johnson/Edwards
George/Grimes/
Yabu/Oubre
Embiid/Drummond

[76ciology]

Fleming has ridiculous, C-quality length and can shoot the lights out. Ideally, he can play next to Embiid and fuction as a major spacing threat on offense. On defense, he can be an elite secondary paint protector.

On a championship team, he'd play the Bobby Portis role.

Yes. And he’s a hell lot cheaper than CMB

[Kobblehead]

Yes. And he’s a hell lot cheaper than CMB

True, but CMB comes with superior pedigree, playmaking, athleticism, scoring ability.

CMB's playmaking has the ability to enhance the scoring efficiency of guys in the backcourt and frontcourt. Think of slingers like Maxey/McCain/Grimes being able to knockdown C&S at high percentages based on point-F play of CMB.

[mjkvol]

Bright side in drafting Tre is he’s the kind of rookie who’ll make noise right away with his scoring. Morey would love that, he’s exactly the type you can dangle at the deadline if Milwaukee ever picks up the phone about Giannis.

I dont think you can do that with VJ or Kon.

I'm not sure if that's true given the team context. If healthy he's pretty far down in the pecking order.

If the goal is to maintain flexibility heading into the trade deadline, like I mentioned earlier, we can easily slide Grimes into more backup SF minutes and give Tre more run at SG as 6th man microwave scorer. Then once the deadline passes, we flip the switch and tighten the rotation into more of a playoff setup.

Maxey/McCain
Grimes/Tre Johnson/Edwards
George/Grimes/
Yabu/Oubre
Embiid/Drummond

"Flip the switch"? I'm sorry, I respect your opinions and the amount of content you routinely bring, but it is beyond delusional to seriously believe that an Embiid/George led team is going to even have a switch to flip at any point in '25-'26.

If the focus is on winning next year which would entail adding win-now pieces, we will be doomed to a long and painful down period after the oh-so inevitable collapse.

[NYSixersFan]

How about Jeremiah Fears at 3? I didn't realize he was 6'4". He didn't shoot great from 3, but his shot looks smooth.

[youngcrev]

Bright side in drafting Tre is he’s the kind of rookie who’ll make noise right away with his scoring. Morey would love that, he’s exactly the type you can dangle at the deadline if Milwaukee ever picks up the phone about Giannis.

I dont think you can do that with VJ or Kon.

I'm not sure if that's true given the team context. If healthy he's pretty far down in the pecking order.

If the goal is to maintain flexibility heading into the trade deadline, like I mentioned earlier, we can easily slide Grimes into more backup SF minutes and give Tre more run at SG as 6th man microwave scorer. Then once the deadline passes, we flip the switch and tighten the rotation into more of a playoff setup.

Maxey/McCain
Grimes/Tre Johnson/Edwards
George/Grimes/
Yabu/Oubre
Embiid/Drummond

The lower you are in the pecking order, the more the other stuff starts to matter.

It's possible he's such a killer as an off ball scorer that he's putting up big scoring nights. It's also possible he struggles to find the right role with a couple of really good guards in place already who primarily are scorer/shooters that lack in other areas that Tre doesn't make up for.

If the concern is immediate fit and looking good early to maintain trade value, VJ and Kon feel like cleaner fits to fill available roles.

Not that it should just be a deciding factor at a pick this high, just countering about looking good off the bat.

My biggest concerns about Tre likely wouldn't truly stand out until we got to playoff series on the defensive end.