2020-2021 College Basketball / NBA Draft

[DCasey91]

Guys you need to watch them instead of looking at stats.

At the end of the day SIZE matters.

When vs sized opponents in the playoffs with legit skillsets there’s a big difference. You’ll be exploitable or just straight up played off the floor.

As great as CP3 is Holiday is a perfect matchup for him. There goes Suns offense orchestrator maxed out. Nothing special just quelled that’s it.

Ben did a number on both Trae (sub 40% really had two great games one being a given until halftime game 1) and Leonard when he was very young. Would have averaged 40.

Offensively he’s our 1st/2nd worst offender and should rightfully get criticism but it stands to reason he is very valuable for us on the defensive end.

I stopped paying attention to ORTG/DRTG that’s TEAM not individual.

Embiid is individual scoring. Etc etc.

I rate average volume scorers that do nothing else as nearing the bottom of the barrel.

Anyone can average 20ppg with enough ball. Doesn’t make them a positive to a team.

So Coby White for example is weak to me. So is Lavine. Booker drops 40 and really the stats don’t go in line with his impact. Towns is literally the worst of its kind because he’s a big. Demarcus Cousins. I mean the literary on this is exhaustive.

We have one right now with Harris. He can score a nice 25 but how much impact did he really have? He gives up -6 on the return on defense.

Either have elite offensive impact, great defensive impact with okay offense (not negative), or being a positive both defense/offense on given nights.

Those things can make you stay on the floor.

You start with Embiid:

Top ten defense slightly under top ten offense (11-13 rank) but it’s not far away.

You see how close it is already to a contender?

Now Ben + Embiid. Boom elite (top 5 defense) and still the same type of offense (12-13 range).

It was so easy to build one. The nuff nuffs at the office built around Simmons not Embiid.

I would give the farm right now to the Pels. Maxey, 1sts etc for Ingram. Right now not even kidding.

[DCasey91]

Which one of the Bucks/Lakers players

Was a guard that we keep talking about?

Answer is Booker and look what happened.

I’d rather draft Todd/Onu/Petrusev with our second and call it day. The first is gone for a better package.

[Kobblehead]

Guys you need to watch them instead of looking at stats.

At the end of the day SIZE matters.

When vs sized opponents in the playoffs with legit skillsets there’s a big difference. You’ll be exploitable or just straight up played off the floor.

As great as CP3 is Holiday is a perfect matchup for him. There goes Suns offense orchestrator maxed out. Nothing special just quelled that’s it.

Ben did a number on both Trae (sub 40% really had two great games one being a given until halftime game 1) and Leonard when he was very young. Would have averaged 40.

Offensively he’s our 1st/2nd worst offender and should rightfully get criticism but it stands to reason he is very valuable for us on the defensive end.

I stopped paying attention to ORTG/DRTG that’s TEAM not individual.

Embiid is individual scoring. Etc etc.

I rate average volume scorers that do nothing else as nearing the bottom of the barrel.

Anyone can average 20ppg with enough ball. Doesn’t make them a positive to a team.

So Coby White for example is weak to me. So is Lavine. Booker drops 40 and really the stats don’t go in line with his impact. Towns is literally the worst of its kind because he’s a big. Demarcus Cousins. I mean the literary on this is exhaustive.

We have one right now with Harris. He can score a nice 25 but how much impact did he really have? He gives up -6 on the return on defense.

Either have elite offensive impact, great defensive impact with okay offense (not negative), or being a positive both defense/offense on given nights.

Those things can make you stay on the floor.

You start with Embiid:

Top ten defense slightly under top ten offense (11-13 rank) but it’s not far away.

You see how close it is already to a contender?

Now Ben + Embiid. Boom elite (top 5 defense) and still the same type of offense (12-13 range).

It was so easy to build one. The nuff nuffs at the office built around Simmons not Embiid.

I would give the farm right now to the Pels. Maxey, 1sts etc for Ingram. Right now not even kidding.

All you said about not valuing volume scorers with limited other areas of their game and then you conclude with wanting to give the farm for Brandon Ingram? That seems contradictory.

I'm a huge Brandon Ingram fan, but I can admit he's not well-rounded at all. Pitiful defensively with no rebounding ability and a mediocre passer.

[Mik317]

going to be irrationally pissed when we trade 28 for Role PlayerMan.

I get it... don't really have time or place for young guys anymore...but I mean the fact that we have to haggle for teams to not take one of our remaining youth would make you think that at the very least having some on board would be nice.

[DCasey91]

Guys you need to watch them instead of looking at stats.

At the end of the day SIZE matters.

When vs sized opponents in the playoffs with legit skillsets there’s a big difference. You’ll be exploitable or just straight up played off the floor.

As great as CP3 is Holiday is a perfect matchup for him. There goes Suns offense orchestrator maxed out. Nothing special just quelled that’s it.

Ben did a number on both Trae (sub 40% really had two great games one being a given until halftime game 1) and Leonard when he was very young. Would have averaged 40.

Offensively he’s our 1st/2nd worst offender and should rightfully get criticism but it stands to reason he is very valuable for us on the defensive end.

I stopped paying attention to ORTG/DRTG that’s TEAM not individual.

Embiid is individual scoring. Etc etc.

I rate average volume scorers that do nothing else as nearing the bottom of the barrel.

Anyone can average 20ppg with enough ball. Doesn’t make them a positive to a team.

So Coby White for example is weak to me. So is Lavine. Booker drops 40 and really the stats don’t go in line with his impact. Towns is literally the worst of its kind because he’s a big. Demarcus Cousins. I mean the literary on this is exhaustive.

We have one right now with Harris. He can score a nice 25 but how much impact did he really have? He gives up -6 on the return on defense.

Either have elite offensive impact, great defensive impact with okay offense (not negative), or being a positive both defense/offense on given nights.

Those things can make you stay on the floor.

You start with Embiid:

Top ten defense slightly under top ten offense (11-13 rank) but it’s not far away.

You see how close it is already to a contender?

Now Ben + Embiid. Boom elite (top 5 defense) and still the same type of offense (12-13 range).

It was so easy to build one. The nuff nuffs at the office built around Simmons not Embiid.

I would give the farm right now to the Pels. Maxey, 1sts etc for Ingram. Right now not even kidding.

All you said about not valuing volume scorers with limited other areas of their game and then you conclude with wanting to give the farm for Brandon Ingram? That seems contradictory.

I'm a huge Brandon Ingram fan, but I can admit he's not well-rounded at all. Pitiful defensively with no rebounding ability and a mediocre passer.

Kobble he’s sized appropriately and then some. This is his base we are watching right now. For us he’s 25/5/5 in the East easily.

Watch in a new setting with Embiid and Ben it’ll be doomsday for other teams that I have no doubt about it.

[DCasey91]

going to be irrationally pissed when we trade 28 for Role PlayerMan.

I get it... don't really have time or place for young guys anymore...but I mean the fact that we have to haggle for teams to not take one of our remaining youth would make you think that at the very least having some on board would be nice.

We won’t be getting a roleplayer if pick 28 is gone. Don’t be surprised if Maxey is moved as well.

[Kobblehead]

going to be irrationally pissed when we trade 28 for Role PlayerMan.

I get it... don't really have time or place for young guys anymore...but I mean the fact that we have to haggle for teams to not take one of our remaining youth would make you think that at the very least having some on board would be nice.

Daryl is going to trade pick #28 for Cam Johnson. Keith Pompey will speak it into existence.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

I like Butler more. But admittedly, im just casually scouting these guys. Did a mock after looking 3 mins clips of these guys and looking their numbers

I need an explanation from someone on why Mitchell is a better prospect (15+ spots better in most instances) than McBride at age 23.

Numbers for both is almost flat.

Mitchell better guard skills and shooting numbers.

Gun in my head, I’d take Mitchell

McBride is a good player but he just seems like a straight line player with the ball, mitchell is more shifty with good burst of speed.

I dont know if its just appearance but he reminds me a lot of Marcus Smart when he’s attacking with the ball. A lot of drives then the defense blocking is path then him settling for jumpers.

Except Mitchell is a 65% career FT shooter. I have low confidence his shooting will translate near as well as McBride. I think McBride has a better chance at improving at the rim than Mitchell being a legitimate shooter.

McBride struggled to get decent looks at the rim because the defense crowded the paint and forced him to create since everyone else was inept at offense on WVU.

[76ciology]

Yeah Mitchell’s FT% is suspect. But Mitchell’s got good burst, first step and is more shifty.

[Kobblehead]

Yeah Mitchell’s FT% is suspect. But Mitchell’s got good burst, first step and is more shifty.

Watch on YouTube

Never draft 21 or older guys in the lotto. Especially if they don't pop until their upperclassmen season.

[76ciology]

Yeah Mitchell’s FT% is suspect. But Mitchell’s got good burst, first step and is more shifty.

Watch on YouTube

Never draft 21 or older guys in the lotto. Especially if they don't pop until their upperclassmen season.

You want me to tell you what supercan told me about never saying never in drafting?

[Kobblehead]

I honestly think it's a smart rule to stick to.

The only time to deviate from it is if it's for a guy that could have come out much earlier.

Davion Mitchell was a 21 year old playing 32.4 mpg and scoring single digits for Baylor last year. Would he have been drafted last year if he came out?

An undraftable 21 year old cannot become a lotto pick as a 22 year old. Just not real.

[Negrodamus]

The only upperclassmen guards to consider are guys who can shoot the lights out. Buddy Hield is an example of this. Mitchell has physical tools that are alluring, but he doesn’t have any real superstar traits other than defense. He also got to enjoy playing on one of the more dominant Big 12 teams in recent memory. That opens up a lot for a senior guard playing second fiddle to the best guard in the country. He’s a trap pick if I’ve ever seen one. I’d be out on him in the first tbh.

[Mik317]

Guys I will be buttmad if they are at 28 and we trade the pick or don't take

Mann:Kobble sold him to me lol. Hits stepbacks. I'm in.

Bones: GDLK NAME. Quickley is the lazy comp but it fits.

Cooper: gdlk fro. I like taking a chance on HS all stars who drop...just in case. Super tiny tho.

Butler: Just a solid ass player. Nice to have.

Springer: Similar to Cooper but can also play next to Maxey if he is still here.

Ayo : Stupid hair but will probably be fine.

------------------

Top 10 guys I have thoughts on

Cade; Seems slow. Feels like he will be what I thought Tatum would be...which well.

Green: The type of dude I'd probably get fired for believing in too long. All the tools doe.

Mobley: Don't take bigs in the top 10....but if he can shoot and handle like some believe...could be that Unicorn people chase. Seems too timid to be that guy tho.

Suggs: Solid player. Feels like Andre Miller tho.so he needs the VIOLENT pumpfake.

Barnes: Another guy I'd get fired for taking. Ben Simmons 2.0 ....except he might give a ****.

Kuminga: I don't get it lol.

Bouknight: Little pissed he started to rise up boards...was my sneaky target for an Indiana trade. Irrational confidence guys are what we need lol.

Mitchell: Like him in the 20s...not in the 10s.

Keon: Zhaire Smith redux...is he allergic to anything?

Giddy: Teams already chasing the next LaMelo huh....no more aussies lol (jk)

Wagner: 76 loves him...don't get it...probably butthurt about his airball ruining my bracket.

Kispert; Same as Mitchell...


I think this draft is rather good. Pretty deep. Not so sure about star level talents but still good draft.

Too bad we will trade the pick for some 35 year old spot up shooter or something./

[76ciology]

^ nicely written mik3!

Two guys i like that are really underrated are Wagner and Cam Thomas. But it doesnt necessarily mean i think they’ll be the best players in this class where I probably have Jalen on top then Cade.

Other guys who are underrated for me are mann, dosunmu, hyland and butler.

Then if i can get free rolls (cheap 2nd round for a chance at a jackpot price)
- Ziaire Williams (length, shoot, athleticism, base level ball handling) - Kai Jones (christian wood comparison)
- Roko (Dario or Wagner comparison)
- BJ Boston (Fake Ingram lol)

My mock 4.0 (based on eyetest, trend and data)

Possibly stars
1- Green (3 level scorer with highest upside)
2- Cunningham (i find him as a weak overall #1 prospect)
3- Kuminga (because of upside and skillset to play SF)
4- Suggs (can run modern offense)
5- Cam Thomas (underrated possibly the best scorer in the draft)
6- Mobley (high upside but who cares. He’s just gonna catch lobs lol)
7-Wagner (2 way wing who can shoot and run PnR)
8- Tre Mann (elite PnR and elite shooter off the dribble)
9- Hyland (1.023 ppp on ISO 6th overall)

Likely role players
10- Barnes (a winning player but limited on halfcourt)
12- Moody (efficient shooter, youth and length)
13- Bouknight (projects to be a high level PnR scorer)
14- Sengun (5.++ WARP)
15- Giddey (2.2 WARP)
16- Butler (elite c&s player. low FTr)
17- Mitchell (low FTr and size issue)
18- Duarte (11.5BPM)
19- Miles Mcbride
20- Dosunmu
21- Kispert (can play that joe harris role)
22- Ziaire Williams
23- Jalen Johnson (solid starter PF)
24- Kai Jones (christian wood comparison)
25- Roko (Dario or Wagner comparison)
26- BJ Boston (Fake Ingram)
27- Austin Reaves (good numbers, can run P&R but senior)

[76ciology]

Kobble, austin reaves looks good on eyetest and numbers also checking out. His age, length and lack of quickness are the issue for me

[DCasey91]

People are undervaluing Mobley. He’s definitely in the tier one class in this draft with Cade and Green.

I mean Bosh 2.0 with better defense and less scoring is kind of the perfect center for today’s game. Watch he’ll average 4 assists in his prime easy.

I’m betting it’s Mobley and Green that’s the best from this crop.

This draft is okay. Light on all time talent but deep on depth. So I wouldn’t overpay or blink to go up higher spots. A lot of draft prospects in the 5-20 that will be fluid as heck. So some could fall or some could rise they are just too closely comparable.

Barnes at 6 and Kuminga at 5 mocked should tell you guys what kind of draft it is.

Next year there’s two heavy heavy hitters already with Chet and Banch who are both more exciting then anyone from this year.

We just had two generational type talents go in successive drafts (Luka/Zion) so talent goes by years.

Victor the year after next.

It’s not hard to tell what kind of draft this is. Not a stinker but not a super high level one imo.

Here’s the group of “Potential Best” all said and done:

Green
Cade
Mobley
Kuminga (Brown development big case) or Christopher

That’s it. Cannot see anyone else though Suggs might be the most valuable piece to a contender (i.e Kidd on the Mavs or Lowry at the Raptors). These six flash All Star potential and then some imo.

[Kobblehead]

Mobley is a poor-rebounding, high post PF that blocks shots. Not sure why anyone would want that kind of guy as a franchise player. Jaren Jackson without a jumper.

Why anyone would waste a top big on a big who's not a defensive phenom is beyond me. You're picking at the top of the draft, presumably, because your creation core sucks and you have no shotcreators. Those are the guys you use draft picks on.

[DCasey91]

The obsession for midget shot creators with zero defense is funny to me. Last time I checked there wasn’t one on a championship team not to my recollection.

Mobley is a stud. I thought you rated double O? Now who’s being contradictory.

I dunno might want to work on your talent level evaluation.

[DCasey91]

^ nicely written mik3!

Two guys i like that are really underrated are Wagner and Cam Thomas. But it doesnt necessarily mean i think they’ll be the best players in this class where I probably have Jalen on top then Cade.

Other guys who are underrated for me are mann, dosunmu, hyland and butler.

Then if i can get free rolls (cheap 2nd round for a chance at a jackpot price)
- Ziaire Williams (length, shoot, athleticism, base level ball handling) - Kai Jones (christian wood comparison)
- Roko (Dario or Wagner comparison)
- BJ Boston (Fake Ingram lol)

My mock 4.0 (based on eyetest, trend and data)

Possibly stars
1- Green (3 level scorer with highest upside)
2- Cunningham (i find him as a weak overall #1 prospect)
3- Kuminga (because of upside and skillset to play SF)
4- Suggs (can run modern offense)
5- Cam Thomas (underrated possibly the best scorer in the draft)
6- Mobley (high upside but who cares. He’s just gonna catch lobs lol)
7-Wagner (2 way wing who can shoot and run PnR)
8- Tre Mann (elite PnR and elite shooter off the dribble)
9- Bouknight (projects to be a high level PnR scorer)

Likely role players
10- Barnes (a winning player but limited on halfcourt)
11- Osunmu (gets to the paint at will on PnR)
12- Moody (efficient shooter, youth and length)
13- Hyland (1.023 ppp on ISO 6th overall; milton 2.0 role)
14- Duarte
15- Butler (elite c&s player. Milton 2.0 role and upside; low FTr)
16- Mitchell (low FTr and size issue)
17- Miles Mcbride
18- Kispert (can play that joe harris role)
19- Ziaire Williams
20- Jalen Johnson (solid starter PF)
21- Kai Jones (christian wood comparison)
22- Roko (Dario or Wagner comparison)
23- BJ Boston (Fake Ingram lol)
24- Austin Reaves (may bump him up as i learn more from him)

Where is Josh Christopher lol? You know he’s a freshman right.