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NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month

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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#121 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:26 am

Mik317 wrote:The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?


Seems like overly simplistic thinking. You win with a combination of youth and experience and you get that experience when it is very good, still quite young, and there is a realistic opportunity to get it.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#122 » by LloydFree » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:27 am

maddog50 wrote:
guest81 wrote:I mean if Silver says he wants to stop tanking, but the rule will go into effect in 2 years so the teams can finish their tanking, so I'm cool with it for two years, makes zero sense.

I'll pose a question, if Silver made this rule last year, what would the 76er's of done differently?


Sign some free agents, maybe? Bledsoe would have filled a need.

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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#123 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:28 am

LloydFree wrote:
maddog50 wrote:
guest81 wrote:I mean if Silver says he wants to stop tanking, but the rule will go into effect in 2 years so the teams can finish their tanking, so I'm cool with it for two years, makes zero sense.

I'll pose a question, if Silver made this rule last year, what would the 76er's of done differently?


Sign some free agents, maybe? Bledsoe would have filled a need.

:lol:


Right, Lloyd. Thanks for contributing nothing.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#124 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:36 am

maddog50 wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
maddog50 wrote:
Really? You mean "needs" does not relate to building a championship? Is this a collective series of statements to reach a proposition, or an argument?

Anyway, no ****, Sherlock. The cap is going up. The Sixers have incredible flexibility to sign high value players. Odds are that not all of the team's prospects work out.


I'll say it again. The goal is to win a championship. It's not to sign free agents. Signing expensive free agents wouldn't help us reach our goal. Not signing expensive free agents will keep us flexible to actually sign a guy like Kevin Durant or Klay Thompson or someone like that. People just want the Sixers to sign any living human being to a monster deal.


You don't have to repeat yourself on a message board when the redundancy is on the same page. Klay is not coming here without Philly giving up something significantly significant in a trade, like Embiid. Durant? You want to put all of our FA eggs in the Durant basket? What if he doesn't come, as you planned it in your head? Should Philly just continue to miss opportunities until it finds a superstar FA?


So your solution is to just sign random players to monster deals just because We have. One to spend and the player can score some? No. And if Thompson or Durant Don't come then they don't come. We can win a title without them. I like Bledsoe. If we were close to winning or a pretty good team then I would be happy to have him but we aren't. Even sucking this year I wouldn't have minded him but it's more prudent to bide more time and not sign any big free agents this year.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#125 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:47 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:
maddog50 wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
I'll say it again. The goal is to win a championship. It's not to sign free agents. Signing expensive free agents wouldn't help us reach our goal. Not signing expensive free agents will keep us flexible to actually sign a guy like Kevin Durant or Klay Thompson or someone like that. People just want the Sixers to sign any living human being to a monster deal.


You don't have to repeat yourself on a message board when the redundancy is on the same page. Klay is not coming here without Philly giving up something significantly significant in a trade, like Embiid. Durant? You want to put all of our FA eggs in the Durant basket? What if he doesn't come, as you planned it in your head? Should Philly just continue to miss opportunities until it finds a superstar FA?


So your solution is to just sign random players to monster deals just because We have. One to spend and the player can score some? No. And if Thompson or Durant Don't come then they don't come. We can win a title without them. I like Bledsoe. If we were close to winning or a pretty good team then I would be happy to have him but we aren't. Even sucking this year I wouldn't have minded him but it's more prudent to bide more time and not sign any big free agents this year.


Straw Man Alert!

But I can't disagree enough with the rest of your comment to offer another thrust. We are almost in agreement, now.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#126 » by Chamberlainship » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:48 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:

What do you keep saying Embiid will leave? You souNo ridiculous. If every star will leave Philly then we should never draft anyone who could be good. Let's just draft scrubS to please you.


???

I'm saying the organization needs to improve its reputation in the league to hope to compete for a title and retain/attract quality free agents. The Embiid thing is a ways off no question. But Thad wasn't a me-guy and he didn't want to resign.

It's not about Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a great city. It's about a reputation stretching back awhile now for being poorly managed. Is that changing? The fact that the commissioner is changing the rules because of our commitment to inferiority speaks for itself.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#127 » by Chamberlainship » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:56 am

Mik317 wrote:The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?



You think we're going to win 19 this year?

I guess if Harris is to believed and we've bottomed out, we should expect some improvement. But I don't see it with this roster. The number in Vegas is 15.5.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#128 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:58 am

maddog50 wrote:
Mik317 wrote:The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?


Seems like overly simplistic thinking. You win with a combination of youth and experience and you get that experience when it is very good, still quite young, and there is a realistic opportunity to get it.


Bledsoe was going to get matched and even if not...he wouldn't come here for the same reasons Klay apparently wouldn't.

Parsons was basically considered to be unavailable until Cuban jumped in. Hinkie wouldn't have done that to his mentor.

Hayward got max which probably is too much...Utah obviosusly would have matched.

It's not overly simplistic thinking...it is common sense really. Unless the guy you sign can help us longterm, it doesn't make sense to sign him.

Those were the only 3 guys I would have signed...anyone else is pointless for this team as they are currently built. Jarrett Jack and the like does nothing because by the time we are actually good, he doesn't do much for us and honestly I don't think he'd want to waste the last few years of his career here and he also would take away minutes from Wroten and the likes.


and again...nto seeing how signing one random dude actually changes much in terms of anything. NO ONE we sign would do anything but maybe add a win here or there..big deal.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#129 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:09 am

Chamberlainship wrote:
Mik317 wrote:The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?



You think we're going to win 19 this year?

I guess if Harris is to believed and we've bottomed out, we should expect some improvement. But I don't see it with this roster. The number in Vegas is 15.5.


If we truly are a 15 win team....then adding a Jarrett Jack changes nothing and is a waste of **** time.

I could see if any of these proposed moves would somehow thrust us back into the playoffs or something but dudes are really sitting here acting like a 25 win team is somehow that much better than a 15 win team...both teams at the end of the day are garbage and virtually in the same space. 25 wins is a bad goddam season.

Like really? **** are really arguing that it is best that we sign some **** no name twat to a contract all in the name of mmaaayvbe 3 more wins than expected. If a guy out there could make this supposedly legendary bad team better, his ass isn't walking through that door because he is far to talented.

wtf is wrong with some of you?
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#130 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:09 am

Mik317 wrote:
maddog50 wrote:
Mik317 wrote:The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?


Seems like overly simplistic thinking. You win with a combination of youth and experience and you get that experience when it is very good, still quite young, and there is a realistic opportunity to get it.


Bledsoe was going to get matched and even if not...he wouldn't come here for the same reasons Klay apparently wouldn't.

Parsons was basically considered to be unavailable until Cuban jumped in. Hinkie wouldn't have done that to his mentor.

Hayward got max which probably is too much...Utah obviosusly would have matched.

It's not overly simplistic thinking...it is common sense really. Unless the guy you sign can help us longterm, it doesn't make sense to sign him.

Those were the only 3 guys I would have signed...anyone else is pointless for this team as they are currently built. Jarrett Jack and the like does nothing because by the time we are actually good, he doesn't do much for us and honestly I don't think he'd want to waste the last few years of his career here and he also would take away minutes from Wroten and the likes.


and again...nto seeing how signing one random dude actually changes much in terms of anything. NO ONE we sign would do anything but maybe add a win here or there..big deal.


OK, what EXACTLY are you saying is common sense, again?

Are you saying that Bledsoe had the same odds of coming here as Klay will next year, assuming he is still unsigned? What is your definition of "random dude" again, or are you just referring to Jarrett Jack?
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#131 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:12 am

Mik317 wrote:
Chamberlainship wrote:
Mik317 wrote:The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?



You think we're going to win 19 this year?

I guess if Harris is to believed and we've bottomed out, we should expect some improvement. But I don't see it with this roster. The number in Vegas is 15.5.


If we truly are a 15 win team....then adding a Jarrett Jack changes nothing and is a waste of **** time.

I could see if any of these proposed moves would somehow thrust us back into the playoffs or something but dudes are really sitting here acting like a 25 win team is somehow that much better than a 15 win team...both teams at the end of the day are garbage and virtually in the same space. 25 wins is a bad goddam season.

Like really? **** are really arguing that it is best that we sign some **** no name twat to a contract all in the name of mmaaayvbe 3 more wins than expected. If a guy out there could make this supposedly legendary bad team better, his ass isn't walking through that door because he is far to talented.

wtf is wrong with some of you?


Again, it sounds like you are engaging in overly simplistic thinking. It's like you think all contracts are one-year contracts and if it doesn't lead to a championship or the playoffs the first year, it's a failed move. It's like you think the team will go from 19 wins to 60 in the space of a year or something. Is Embiid the new David Robinson in your mind?
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#132 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:15 am

You stated that Klay and Durant wouldn't want to come here , no? I imagine Bledsoe thought the same this offseason. He or anyone of actual worth wasn't walking through that door because we are so far away from contending right now it's not even funny. So yeah the random dude would be the Damien Wilkins and the likes of the world...the also rans who don't have any choice in the matter. Talented vets ring chase at the end of their careers...those that don't more than likely don't have anything left. Not to mention Sved, LMM are these exact kind of addition people are banging the drum for anyway (We also still have JRich....). So what do you people want honestly.

All I have heard is some made up ish about Jarret Jack and Jermey Lin or dreams of how we basically could have forced Bledsoe to sign here. That **** isn't reality man.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#133 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:17 am

Mik317 wrote:You stated that Klay and Durant wouldn't want to come here , no? I imagine Bledsoe thought the same this offseason. He or anyone of actual worth wasn't walking through that door because we are so far away from contending right now it's not even funny. So yeah the random dude would be the Damien Wilkins and the likes of the world...the also rans who don't have any choice in the matter. Talented vets ring chase at the end of their careers...those that don't more than likely don't have anything left. Not to mention Sved, LMM are these exact kind of addition people are banging the drum for anyway (We also still have JRich....). So what do you people want honestly.

All I have heard is some made up ish about Jarret Jack and Jermey Lin or dreams of how we basically could have forced Bledsoe to sign here. That **** isn't reality man.


So your fan mindset is that no one that could help this team could possibly be signed until the team shows a pulse or something? I'm just trying to understand what you are thinking, here, and failing.

Who is saying that Philly could force Bledsoe to sign?
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#134 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:32 am

yes.

No one of value will sign with the Sixers in their current state. YOU stated this is the reason Durant or Klay wouldn't come here..and I agree with that. Durant only comes here if Noel is legit and if Embiid is David Robinson. As much as I'd like to think that that is what is going to happen....it's not going to happen overnight (if at all).

So the question is..how does one become that team that attracts FA, right? Noel and Embiid have to pan out. Simple. They don't then Durant or whoever will not even look our way. That is generally how it works out. The only guys that will would be the dregs of the league and vets who are trying to hang on. Why? Because all of the players with talent generally would go to better spots. It is a simple thing, man. So why even bother if thats all that is basically available to us?

Ben Gordon doesn't help us at the moment. Great shooter and can get hot and give this years team a much needed scoring boost, yes....but at the end of the day, we are talking maybe 2-8 more wins..maybe..and that is if he has anything left as he has been awful for the last few years. The question ends up being is that worth taking minutes away from Wroten and KJ, is it worth him being a lockerroom cancer potentially? Is it really? The benefits people constantly bring up is that they can teach the youngins the ways of the NBA.....that is null because JRich, LMM, Sved and hell MCW can all do that...not to mention our coaching staff has been around, this isn't their first rodeos. Sean Rooks is our Bigman coach...he was one of the same journeymen people are clamoring for us to sign....litterally gives us the same "leadership" without taking up a roster spot that can be better used for player evaluation.

So please...list some realistic adds that would make us a better team LONGTERM. You are the one looking at this very simplistically. Bledsoe, Parsons, and Hayward would have been awesome adds but it just isn't realistic.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#135 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:46 am

Mik317 wrote:yes.

No one of value will sign with the Sixers in their current state. YOU stated this is the reason Durant or Klay wouldn't come here..and I agree with that. Durant only comes here if Noel is legit and if Embiid is David Robinson. As much as I'd like to think that that is what is going to happen....it's not going to happen overnight (if at all).

So the question is..how does one become that team that attracts FA, right? Noel and Embiid have to pan out. Simple. They don't then Durant or whoever will not even look our way. That is generally how it works out. The only guys that will would be the dregs of the league and vets who are trying to hang on. Why? Because all of the players with talent generally would go to better spots. It is a simple thing, man. So why even bother if thats all that is basically available to us?

Ben Gordon doesn't help us at the moment. Great shooter and can get hot and give this years team a much needed scoring boost, yes....but at the end of the day, we are talking maybe 2-8 more wins..maybe..and that is if he has anything left as he has been awful for the last few years. The question ends up being is that worth taking minutes away from Wroten and KJ, is it worth him being a lockerroom cancer potentially? Is it really? The benefits people constantly bring up is that they can teach the youngins the ways of the NBA.....that is null because JRich, LMM, Sved and hell MCW can all do that...not to mention our coaching staff has been around, this isn't their first rodeos. Sean Rooks is our Bigman coach...he was one of the same journeymen people are clamoring for us to sign....litterally gives us the same "leadership" without taking up a roster spot that can be better used for player evaluation.

So please...list some realistic adds that would make us a better team LONGTERM. You are the one looking at this very simplistically. Bledsoe, Parsons, and Hayward would have been awesome adds but it just isn't realistic.


Well, you agree about who would have been awesome adds, but no, I'm not going to give ground because you are still making categorical statements that show false equivalence. In other words, overly simplistic thinking is your MO in this discussion (but not in general, I think).

I said above that we should not put all of our eggs in Durant's basket because he may not decide to come here. I do not recall implying anything more than that, but you can pick my words to death and see if I am missing some hidden meaning. On Klay, I mean I do not think it's possible that GS lets him go without a king's ransom, over and above what it takes to sign Klay. I did not make any statements about the others you have mentioned...

...except Bledsoe because he was at an impasse with his team. When a team values a player much differently than the player values himself, it creates opportunities for other teams to ply said player away. When PHX got IT, it made it even more likely that PHX would let him go without a king's ransom. Knowing that another Dragic was on their radar decreased Bledsoe's importance to PHX even more.

Simple enough?
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#136 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:56 am

and yet in the end..they gave him the max anyway.

typical RFA mindgames were played by both sides. The Suns have a very frugal owner after all and if they could get Bledsoe for cheaper then they would try and if not they would simply match any other offer. No one bit for his very reason (and his knees). Parsons was a rare case of circumstance but for the most part teams don't lose their RFA...that and the new CBA was built for this very reason. It's how teams keep their young talent from bolting to greener pastures ASAP.

again I would have loved to get Bledsoe but his RFA situation didn't make that a reasonable option...and who knows maybe Hinkie pursued that. Maybe Bledsoe didn't want to come here.

so if Bledsoe is your only counterpoint, then ok...and? We couldn't get him...
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#137 » by maddog50 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 3:05 am

Mik317 wrote:and yet in the end..they gave him the max anyway.

typical RFA mindgames were played by both sides. The Suns have a very frugal owner after all and if they could get Bledsoe for cheaper then they would try and if not they would simply match any other offer.

again I would have loved to get Bledsoe but his RFA situation didn't make that a reasonable option...and who knows maybe Hinkie pursued that. Maybe Bledsoe didn't want to come here.

so if Bledsoe is your only counterpoint, then ok...and? We couldn't get him...


So you are saying that Bledsoe was not available at any price? Are you saying the Sixers had no leverage?
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#138 » by Mik317 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 3:06 am

yes.

There is a reason why no one seemingly was pursuing him despite his talent. The TWolves rumors were just to get the Suns to give in.

It is neigh impossible to get RFAs.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#139 » by 42uptop » Sun Oct 5, 2014 3:12 am

guest81 wrote:uhh tankings been going on a lot longer. I remember Mark Madsen launching like 8 3 pointers in a game to keep the Wolves from winning. How many teams kept good players out because of mysterious injuries? Tanking has been going on a lot longer then the 76ers. it's just that Stern never did anything about it


uhhh cool story bro. Unfortunately that has nothing to do with this discussion. Admit you are wrong and move on.
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Re: NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month 

Post#140 » by roma258 » Sun Oct 5, 2014 3:55 am

Can someone explain to me how Oklahoma City Thunder managed to draft Jeff Green, Kevin Durant, Russel Westbrook and James Harden in consecutive drafts? Wtf, this is nothing new. Teams suck, the get good draft picks and suddenly they're good. Does anyone mention Thunder's terrible seasons when they talk about them now? This whole thing is freaking absurd.
Liberté, égalité, lotteré

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