Welcome Tobias Harris

[LloydFree]

They should have traded for Patrick beverly instead of Boban. We need a defender who can defend Kyrie, Kyle,Bledsoe. The team is not going to get past second round if it meets celtics\Bucks. Our best bet for road to finals is against Toronto in second round.

How do people just assume that the Clippers were just going to hand over Patrick Beverly, instead of Boban? Who says they didn't ask for Beverly and were told 'you have to add more to the package because we like having Beverly's Bird rights at his salary level?" Just assuming Beverly was available, and the 76ers were more interested in Boban, really doesn't make a bit of sense, IMO.

[Winejk]

I value Boban than Beverly. Defense has been the biggest problem of this team. And the defense with Biid off court is the main problem. Pat Beverly’s is really not likely gonna solve that than Boban.

Pat Beverly isnt gonna stop Kyle or Kyrie. It takes a team effort. Just as how Celts defends Embiid. And to stop Kyle or Kyrie, it starts with Embiid more willing to step out to challenge a 1-5 PnR with the entire team rotating and helping each other out.

There is a buyout market for centers with Marcin, Robin Lopez. I don't think TJ Mcconell is good defensively and you have no one who can defend Kyrie/Kyle/Bledsoe. Even with Harris we could not defeat celtics at home without kyrie. How are you going to defeat
Celtics four times. You need someone among the big four to step up big and I don't think Embiid or Simmons are capable. Butler has to take over the game like LeBron did last year.

We still don't have a good backup point guard and we traded Markelle for another small forward.

Jimmy Butler or Ben can defend PGs.

At some point the PG position will be full time played by Jimmy and Ben.

Try to watch OKC-Sixers game see how Ben was so effective defending RW. Jimmy can also defend star PGs, problem is Biid doesnt step out on 1-5 PnR. This is also why spencer dinwiddie had a career night against us.

Believe me.. boban’s defense is elite and is overlooked. If we can use boban effectively, that would unlock our defensive upside.

Agreed.

I've seen Ben lock up some real good point guards when he has had the assignment. Kyrie can't pull his dribbling show out on Ben because Ben is just as quick and is much taller. Ben just has to stay in front of Kyrie and then challenge the shot when Kyrie pulls up.

[the_process]

They should have traded for Patrick beverly instead of Boban. We need a defender who can defend Kyrie, Kyle,Bledsoe. The team is not going to get past second round if it meets celtics\Bucks. Our best bet for road to finals is against Toronto in second round.

How do people just assume that the Clippers were just going to hand over Patrick Beverly, instead of Boban? Who says they didn't ask for Beverly and were told 'you have to add more to the package because we like having Beverly's Bird rights at his salary level?" Just assuming Beverly was available, and the 76ers were more interested in Boban, really doesn't make a bit of sense, IMO.

I would expect that with the overpay the Sixers were sending for Tobias, they should've told the Clippers that to balance out the deal Beverley and Harrell would be coming back, and then lessened the protections on the 2020 1st as a gesture of good faith. And if the Clips had said no, just walked away.

Of course, the Sixers could very well be looking at Harris as hedge against maxing Jimmy, and so would've been too desperate to get a deal done, and so settled for whatever the Clips offered.

[the_process]

I value Boban than Beverly. Defense has been the biggest problem of this team. And the defense with Biid off court is the main problem. Pat Beverly’s is really not likely gonna solve that than Boban.

Pat Beverly isnt gonna stop Kyle or Kyrie. It takes a team effort. Just as how Celts defends Embiid. And to stop Kyle or Kyrie, it starts with Embiid more willing to step out to challenge a 1-5 PnR with the entire team rotating and helping each other out.

There is a buyout market for centers with Marcin, Robin Lopez. I don't think TJ Mcconell is good defensively and you have no one who can defend Kyrie/Kyle/Bledsoe. Even with Harris we could not defeat celtics at home without kyrie. How are you going to defeat
Celtics four times. You need someone among the big four to step up big and I don't think Embiid or Simmons are capable. Butler has to take over the game like LeBron did last year.

We still don't have a good backup point guard and we traded Markelle for another small forward.

Jimmy Butler or Ben can defend PGs.

At some point the PG position will be full time played by Jimmy and Ben.

Try to watch OKC-Sixers game see how Ben was so effective defending RW. Jimmy can also defend star PGs, problem is Biid doesnt step out on 1-5 PnR. This is also why spencer dinwiddie had a career night against us.

Believe me.. boban’s defense is elite and is overlooked. If we can use boban effectively, that would unlock our defensive upside.

Boban can be played off the court far too easily. He has elite stats because he only plays in short bursts against backups. I don't think he's playable at all in the playoffs.

[76ciology]

There is a buyout market for centers with Marcin, Robin Lopez. I don't think TJ Mcconell is good defensively and you have no one who can defend Kyrie/Kyle/Bledsoe. Even with Harris we could not defeat celtics at home without kyrie. How are you going to defeat
Celtics four times. You need someone among the big four to step up big and I don't think Embiid or Simmons are capable. Butler has to take over the game like LeBron did last year.

We still don't have a good backup point guard and we traded Markelle for another small forward.

Jimmy Butler or Ben can defend PGs.

At some point the PG position will be full time played by Jimmy and Ben.

Try to watch OKC-Sixers game see how Ben was so effective defending RW. Jimmy can also defend star PGs, problem is Biid doesnt step out on 1-5 PnR. This is also why spencer dinwiddie had a career night against us.

Believe me.. boban’s defense is elite and is overlooked. If we can use boban effectively, that would unlock our defensive upside.

Agreed.

I've seen Ben lock up some real good point guards when he has had the assignment. Kyrie can't pull his dribbling show out on Ben because Ben is just as quick and is much taller. Ben just has to stay in front of Kyrie and then challenge the shot when Kyrie pulls up.

Ben can also switch to a big when these guards run a 2 man game. Then if the big opts to attack ben, we do the Celts way of defending Biid. Let the big go deep then have multiple weak side ready to help. By then, the opponent will have limited time with the shotclock to operate.

That is the kind of dynamic why I’m high on Ben.

[76ciology]

There is a buyout market for centers with Marcin, Robin Lopez. I don't think TJ Mcconell is good defensively and you have no one who can defend Kyrie/Kyle/Bledsoe. Even with Harris we could not defeat celtics at home without kyrie. How are you going to defeat
Celtics four times. You need someone among the big four to step up big and I don't think Embiid or Simmons are capable. Butler has to take over the game like LeBron did last year.

We still don't have a good backup point guard and we traded Markelle for another small forward.

Jimmy Butler or Ben can defend PGs.

At some point the PG position will be full time played by Jimmy and Ben.

Try to watch OKC-Sixers game see how Ben was so effective defending RW. Jimmy can also defend star PGs, problem is Biid doesnt step out on 1-5 PnR. This is also why spencer dinwiddie had a career night against us.

Believe me.. boban’s defense is elite and is overlooked. If we can use boban effectively, that would unlock our defensive upside.

Boban can be played off the court far too easily. He has elite stats because he only plays in short bursts against backups. I don't think he's playable at all in the playoffs.

I just need 10 mins from him.

I’d use him like how Bucks is using brolo. Be big enough to cover two players in 2v1 situations like a 1-5 PnR or let him step out to cover 3pt shooter then have Ben to play like Giannis on defense and have him rotate into the paint and protect the rim

Another thing im looking at is Boban’s passing. He showed promise with his post play with Tobias against the Knicks. He’s having a big jump in assits with us

[LloydFree]

They should have traded for Patrick beverly instead of Boban. We need a defender who can defend Kyrie, Kyle,Bledsoe. The team is not going to get past second round if it meets celtics\Bucks. Our best bet for road to finals is against Toronto in second round.

How do people just assume that the Clippers were just going to hand over Patrick Beverly, instead of Boban? Who says they didn't ask for Beverly and were told 'you have to add more to the package because we like having Beverly's Bird rights at his salary level?" Just assuming Beverly was available, and the 76ers were more interested in Boban, really doesn't make a bit of sense, IMO.

I would expect that with the overpay the Sixers were sending for Tobias, they should've told the Clippers that to balance out the deal Beverley and Harrell would be coming back, and then lessened the protections on the 2020 1st as a gesture of good faith. And if the Clips had said no, just walked away.

Of course, the Sixers could very well be looking at Harris as hedge against maxing Jimmy, and so would've been too desperate to get a deal done, and so settled for whatever the Clips offered.

They may have slightly overpayed for Tobias Harris, but it wasn't enough of an overpay to get Patrick Beverly as a throw-in to balance it out. They traded a likely mid 1st, a fungible rotation bench shooter and a nothing late 1st for Tobias Harris. The 2nds were nothing but window dressing and you couldn't even get Boban or Mike Scott for them. When all is said and done, the 76ers didn't trade anything that they'll likely ever regret trading to the Clippers.


As far as the likely "hedge" you brought up... It's not a could have been... They absolutely did acquire Tobias to (hedge or) avoid being forced to pay Jimmy Butler the Max. They're not going to pay 4 different players 30 million apiece, on the same team. Wont happen. They're both hedging their bet and trying to take a run this year

[FlyingArrow]

I sure hope they do go to 30million per player. Otherwise they'll walk. Massive overpay for a half season rental of Butler or Harris.

[LloydFree]

I don't get this idea that the 76ers did these massive overpays for either Jimmy Butler or Tobias Harris. The only assets they spent of real value were Robert Covington and the Miami 1st round pick. People criticize Danny Ainge for hording assets until they don't have any value, but turn around and get mad when the 76ers trade a mid-1st and a bench player for an All-star caliber player. What did you expect to get for a Miami 1st and Landry Shamet... Anthony Davis?

If one of them walks, so what. You're out Covington or a mid-1st. And if Jimmy walks (as I expect he may) you do your job as a GM, pivot and use part of Butler's money to replace him and/or Covington

[gdog2004]

I don't get this idea that the 76ers did these massive overpays for either Jimmy Butler or Tobias Harris. The only assets they spent of real value were Robert Covington and the Miami 1st round pick. People criticize Danny Ainge for hording assets until they don't have any value, but turn around and get mad when the 76ers trade a mid-1st and a bench player for an All-star caliber player. What did you expect to get for a Miami 1st and Landry Shamet... Anthony Davis?

If one of them walks, so what. You're out Covington or a mid-1st. And if Jimmy walks (as I expect he may) you do your job as a GM, pivot and use part of Butler's money to replace him and/or Covington

It's very hard to imagine Harris walking. He is the perfect fit here and he seems to love it here.
Butler ? Who knows. If the Sixers arent willing to give him 5 years, who would ? Who really wants a 34-35 year old Jimmy Butler on their team ?

[FlyingArrow]

Regardless of the outcome, I don't think we overpaid for either Jimmy or Tobias - assuming we actually try to sign them. It's a risk we needed to take - bring them in, see if they fit, see if they like it here, and try to sign them long-term. But if we brought them in and then we aren't even willing to offer them a competitive contract then what was the point?

I don't think we need to give Jimmy 5 years, but we will need to give him a competitive contract. I think that will be max money for at least 3 years and maybe 4. Even with that, years 3 and 4 will likely be a massive overpay, but the total value of the contract would still be fine. Ideal for us would be max money for 3 years, but I suspect it will take a 4 year offer. If we do go the full 5 max contract then we're just bidding against ourselves.

[LloydFree]

I don't get this idea that the 76ers did these massive overpays for either Jimmy Butler or Tobias Harris. The only assets they spent of real value were Robert Covington and the Miami 1st round pick. People criticize Danny Ainge for hording assets until they don't have any value, but turn around and get mad when the 76ers trade a mid-1st and a bench player for an All-star caliber player. What did you expect to get for a Miami 1st and Landry Shamet... Anthony Davis?

If one of them walks, so what. You're out Covington or a mid-1st. And if Jimmy walks (as I expect he may) you do your job as a GM, pivot and use part of Butler's money to replace him and/or Covington

It's very hard to imagine Harris walking. He is the perfect fit here and he seems to love it here.
Butler ? Who knows. If the Sixers arent willing to give him 5 years, who would ? Who really wants a 34-35 year old Jimmy Butler on their team ?

Tobias Harris is from New York and would be a perfect fit in Brooklyn, just as he is here. And Jimmy Butler also fits in Brooklyn, because they have no SF and unlike the 76ers, they have plenty of shooters but few high usage playmakers. Either one would be a prime target for the Nets.

[gdog2004]

I don't get this idea that the 76ers did these massive overpays for either Jimmy Butler or Tobias Harris. The only assets they spent of real value were Robert Covington and the Miami 1st round pick. People criticize Danny Ainge for hording assets until they don't have any value, but turn around and get mad when the 76ers trade a mid-1st and a bench player for an All-star caliber player. What did you expect to get for a Miami 1st and Landry Shamet... Anthony Davis?

If one of them walks, so what. You're out Covington or a mid-1st. And if Jimmy walks (as I expect he may) you do your job as a GM, pivot and use part of Butler's money to replace him and/or Covington

It's very hard to imagine Harris walking. He is the perfect fit here and he seems to love it here.
Butler ? Who knows. If the Sixers arent willing to give him 5 years, who would ? Who really wants a 34-35 year old Jimmy Butler on their team ?

Tobias Harris is from New York and would be a perfect fit in Brooklyn, just as he is here. And Jimmy Butler also fits in Brooklyn, because they have no SF and unlike the 76ers, they have plenty of shooters but few high usage playmakers. Either one would be a prime target for the Nets.

Sixers can offer either one of them more money than the Nets. No doubt Sixers will look to retain Tobias. I was just wondering what other team would offer butler a max deal. He has baggage and is old for a max deal. His game is reliant upon athleticism.

[sixers4real]

How do people just assume that the Clippers were just going to hand over Patrick Beverly, instead of Boban? Who says they didn't ask for Beverly and were told 'you have to add more to the package because we like having Beverly's Bird rights at his salary level?" Just assuming Beverly was available, and the 76ers were more interested in Boban, really doesn't make a bit of sense, IMO.

I would expect that with the overpay the Sixers were sending for Tobias, they should've told the Clippers that to balance out the deal Beverley and Harrell would be coming back, and then lessened the protections on the 2020 1st as a gesture of good faith. And if the Clips had said no, just walked away.

Of course, the Sixers could very well be looking at Harris as hedge against maxing Jimmy, and so would've been too desperate to get a deal done, and so settled for whatever the Clips offered.

They may have slightly overpayed for Tobias Harris, but it wasn't enough of an overpay to get Patrick Beverly as a throw-in to balance it out. They traded a likely mid 1st, a fungible rotation bench shooter and a nothing late 1st for Tobias Harris. The 2nds were nothing but window dressing and you couldn't even get Boban or Mike Scott for them. When all is said and done, the 76ers didn't trade anything that they'll likely ever regret trading to the Clippers.


As far as the likely "hedge" you brought up... It's not a could have been... They absolutely did acquire Tobias to (hedge or) avoid being forced to pay Jimmy Butler the Max. They're not going to pay 4 different players 30 million apiece, on the same team. Wont happen. They're both hedging their bet and trying to take a run this year

So you’re saying the front office made this move because they think they can win it this year against GS?

I want the Sixers to keep them all 4 especially if KD leaves GS. I would guess we would be top 3 title contenders for the next 5 years. Maybe Josh Harris is willing to pay this huge luxury tax, if he wants to win a championship?

[LloydFree]

I would expect that with the overpay the Sixers were sending for Tobias, they should've told the Clippers that to balance out the deal Beverley and Harrell would be coming back, and then lessened the protections on the 2020 1st as a gesture of good faith. And if the Clips had said no, just walked away.

Of course, the Sixers could very well be looking at Harris as hedge against maxing Jimmy, and so would've been too desperate to get a deal done, and so settled for whatever the Clips offered.

They may have slightly overpayed for Tobias Harris, but it wasn't enough of an overpay to get Patrick Beverly as a throw-in to balance it out. They traded a likely mid 1st, a fungible rotation bench shooter and a nothing late 1st for Tobias Harris. The 2nds were nothing but window dressing and you couldn't even get Boban or Mike Scott for them. When all is said and done, the 76ers didn't trade anything that they'll likely ever regret trading to the Clippers.


As far as the likely "hedge" you brought up... It's not a could have been... They absolutely did acquire Tobias to (hedge or) avoid being forced to pay Jimmy Butler the Max. They're not going to pay 4 different players 30 million apiece, on the same team. Wont happen. They're both hedging their bet and trying to take a run this year

So you’re saying the front office made this move because they think they can win it this year against GS?

I want the Sixers to keep them all 4 especially if KD leaves GS. I would guess we would be top 3 title contenders for the next 5 years. Maybe Josh Harris is willing to pay this huge luxury tax, if he wants to win a championship?

I'm saying they went into both trades attempting to acquire the most high end talent they could for the money. They are trying to win not only this year, but also positioning themselves for the future by keeping options and the flexibility to pivot.

Now personally I don't believe the 76ers have any intention of maxing 4 players. They may, if they win the Championship, but otherwise I don't believe it. No team is going to lock themselves into a RECORD repeater tax bill BEFORE the group wins the championship. I think they will pick one, either Butler or Tobias and let the other walk and replace the other with a cheaper player they believe can fill the roles they need. Doesn't mean they're only trying to win this one season, means they'll try to win with a slightly different group next year, if they fail to win this year.

[sixers4real]

They may have slightly overpayed for Tobias Harris, but it wasn't enough of an overpay to get Patrick Beverly as a throw-in to balance it out. They traded a likely mid 1st, a fungible rotation bench shooter and a nothing late 1st for Tobias Harris. The 2nds were nothing but window dressing and you couldn't even get Boban or Mike Scott for them. When all is said and done, the 76ers didn't trade anything that they'll likely ever regret trading to the Clippers.


As far as the likely "hedge" you brought up... It's not a could have been... They absolutely did acquire Tobias to (hedge or) avoid being forced to pay Jimmy Butler the Max. They're not going to pay 4 different players 30 million apiece, on the same team. Wont happen. They're both hedging their bet and trying to take a run this year

So you’re saying the front office made this move because they think they can win it this year against GS?

I want the Sixers to keep them all 4 especially if KD leaves GS. I would guess we would be top 3 title contenders for the next 5 years. Maybe Josh Harris is willing to pay this huge luxury tax, if he wants to win a championship?

I'm saying they went into both trades attempting to acquire the most high end talent they could for the money. They are trying to win not only this year, but also positioning themselves for the future by keeping options and the flexibility to pivot.

Now personally I don't believe the 76ers have any intention of maxing 4 players. They may, if they win the Championship, but otherwise I don't believe it. No team is going to lock themselves into a RECORD repeater tax bill BEFORE the group wins the championship. I think they will pick one, either Butler or Tobias and let the other walk and replace the other with a cheaper player they believe can fill the roles they need. Doesn't mean they're only trying to win this one season, means they'll try to win with a slightly different group next year, if they fail to win this year.

I see your point. Who would you choose between Butler and Harris?

I have hope we will resign both.

[the_process]

So you’re saying the front office made this move because they think they can win it this year against GS?

I want the Sixers to keep them all 4 especially if KD leaves GS. I would guess we would be top 3 title contenders for the next 5 years. Maybe Josh Harris is willing to pay this huge luxury tax, if he wants to win a championship?

I'm saying they went into both trades attempting to acquire the most high end talent they could for the money. They are trying to win not only this year, but also positioning themselves for the future by keeping options and the flexibility to pivot.

Now personally I don't believe the 76ers have any intention of maxing 4 players. They may, if they win the Championship, but otherwise I don't believe it. No team is going to lock themselves into a RECORD repeater tax bill BEFORE the group wins the championship. I think they will pick one, either Butler or Tobias and let the other walk and replace the other with a cheaper player they believe can fill the roles they need. Doesn't mean they're only trying to win this one season, means they'll try to win with a slightly different group next year, if they fail to win this year.

I see your point. Who would you choose between Butler and Harris?

I have hope we will resign both.

It's easily Tobias over Jimmy. Tobias' skill set fits much better and he's not a ticking time bomb in the locker room.

Also, Jimmy's game is not going to age well. He already looks like he's slipped a little.

[sixers4real]

I'm saying they went into both trades attempting to acquire the most high end talent they could for the money. They are trying to win not only this year, but also positioning themselves for the future by keeping options and the flexibility to pivot.

Now personally I don't believe the 76ers have any intention of maxing 4 players. They may, if they win the Championship, but otherwise I don't believe it. No team is going to lock themselves into a RECORD repeater tax bill BEFORE the group wins the championship. I think they will pick one, either Butler or Tobias and let the other walk and replace the other with a cheaper player they believe can fill the roles they need. Doesn't mean they're only trying to win this one season, means they'll try to win with a slightly different group next year, if they fail to win this year.

I see your point. Who would you choose between Butler and Harris?

I have hope we will resign both.

It's easily Tobias over Jimmy. Tobias' skill set fits much better and he's not a ticking time bomb in the locker room.

Also, Jimmy's game is not going to age well. He already looks like he's slipped a little.

I say this will change come playoff time. I think that's the first time Butler is kinda resting so much in regular season in so many ways. Although his game and his stats are very impressive. His game fits playoffs perfectly.

It's a luxury that we have both now. I hope that its more then just 30+ games.

[LloydFree]

So you’re saying the front office made this move because they think they can win it this year against GS?

I want the Sixers to keep them all 4 especially if KD leaves GS. I would guess we would be top 3 title contenders for the next 5 years. Maybe Josh Harris is willing to pay this huge luxury tax, if he wants to win a championship?

I'm saying they went into both trades attempting to acquire the most high end talent they could for the money. They are trying to win not only this year, but also positioning themselves for the future by keeping options and the flexibility to pivot.

Now personally I don't believe the 76ers have any intention of maxing 4 players. They may, if they win the Championship, but otherwise I don't believe it. No team is going to lock themselves into a RECORD repeater tax bill BEFORE the group wins the championship. I think they will pick one, either Butler or Tobias and let the other walk and replace the other with a cheaper player they believe can fill the roles they need. Doesn't mean they're only trying to win this one season, means they'll try to win with a slightly different group next year, if they fail to win this year.

I see your point. Who would you choose between Butler and Harris?

I have hope we will resign both.

In a vacuum, Jimmy Butler is the better player. But I'd take Tobias Harris on this team because I think he's a better fit between Embiid and Simmons. And the fact that he's much younger, gives the hope that his contract won't be a guaranteed albatross at the end.

[76ciology]

Butler is the better player but relative to this Ben&Jojo, where one has elite playmaking and the other has elite defense, Butler’s value on defense and playmaking diminish. Thus the comparison turns into a pure scoring+spacing value system where Tobias has the edge.