Championship hopes

[tigermars]

How people insists that Ben and Embiid are a good fit it's beyond me.

We are in 2020 and our 2 franchise players are uncorfortable shooting 3's (one can't even shoot it), both need space inside to operate. It's not rocket science.

Building around them isn't easy. In general, if you have 2 superstars as they are suposed to be, you only need 3+D guys. That won't cut it with them. You still need a perimetrer scorer/creator in the half court, making things very difficult, because you won't get that calibeer of a player as your #3 best player. At least not one who is good enough on defense, while also being an great off ball shooter to compliment them.That's why we have freaking Tobias Harris, it's the best we could get in that role. And that's why this roster is so strange and ankward, because to build around them you have to get creative.

The biggest problem I saw is good teams would sag off both Biid and Ben. This forces a heavy perimeter shooting game that lies at the shoulder of role players, Tobi and Jrich. We saw that during the Celts playoffs with Baynes and Al then recently against the Bucks with Giannis and Brolo, this is a really smart strategy that you can’t even have Al post up Wes Matthews given you have a couple of 7’ defenders in the paint.

Are Biid and Ben good fits? Not perfect and not bad. I’d say average but they can be good fits if they try to find ways to make it work.

Very few spacing while not going to be target to death on defense. Basically Klay, and maybe Bertans. If the Mike Scott + Zhaire +Picks, maybe Richardson mike Scott + picks all in on Bertands stretching the D and scrambling Tobias can attack close outs. Thybulle and Simmons Roam on defense.

Simmons Thybulle Tobias Bertans Embiid.

Shake Furkan Al

Eight man rotation.

[76ciology]

How people insists that Ben and Embiid are a good fit it's beyond me.

We are in 2020 and our 2 franchise players are uncorfortable shooting 3's (one can't even shoot it), both need space inside to operate. It's not rocket science.

Building around them isn't easy. In general, if you have 2 superstars as they are suposed to be, you only need 3+D guys. That won't cut it with them. You still need a perimetrer scorer/creator in the half court, making things very difficult, because you won't get that calibeer of a player as your #3 best player. At least not one who is good enough on defense, while also being an great off ball shooter to compliment them.That's why we have freaking Tobias Harris, it's the best we could get in that role. And that's why this roster is so strange and ankward, because to build around them you have to get creative.

The biggest problem I saw is good teams would sag off both Biid and Ben. This forces a heavy perimeter shooting game that lies at the shoulder of role players, Tobi and Jrich. We saw that during the Celts playoffs with Baynes and Al then recently against the Bucks with Giannis and Brolo, this is a really smart strategy that you can’t even have Al post up Wes Matthews given you have a couple of 7’ defenders in the paint.

Are Biid and Ben good fits? Not perfect and not bad. I’d say average but they can be good fits if they try to find ways to make it work.

Very few spacing while not going to be target to death on defense. Basically Klay, and maybe Bertans. If the Mike Scott + Zhaire +Picks, maybe Richardson mike Scott + picks all in on Bertands stretching the D and scrambling Tobias can attack close outs. Thybulle and Simmons Roam on defense.

Simmons Thybulle Tobias Bertans Embiid.

Shake Furkan Al

Eight man rotation.

sure you have spacing. Then instead of making progress, you are reverting back to that 2019 playoff roster with shooters like Jj, Beli and Ersan.

But what good is spacing when they can’t create 4v5 situation with all your guys can likely be defended by single coverage.

I’ll just put a Baynes on Biid then have a mobile PF like Al on Ben, then live with the results. Then also consider both PF&C can just sag off the paint to protect the paint.

While on the other end I have Giannis, Siakam or a 1-5 PnR heavy offense constantly creating 4v5 on your defense and passing it to the open guy.

If you want to win it on offense you either have to empower our guys (put them on advantageous match-ups) or find a constant perimeter mismatch like a Kawhi or KD. Given how easy it is to defend our guys (relative to guys like Harden and etc). You need more than floor spacing. Thats how I see it.

[elchengue20]

Yes, that's exactly the problem. 3+D guys next to Ben and Embiid is the 2018 playoff team all over again. Maybe slighlty better if you find better defensive players. Still, it won't win you a championship.

In my opinion, the way to go is Joel souronded by shooters (he's going to be more difficult to double) and with 1 or 2 of them being able to create of the dribble and in PnR situations with him. Of course all of them have to be competent defenders and a couple of them great defenders.

I love Simmons defense and his versatily, but he just is a bad fit on the halfcourt offense with Joel. It's a shame because they are a nightmare on defense and transition, but they are really flawed fit on the halfcourt offense.

If you want to play around Simmons, Joel basically has to limit himself into a 25mil/year version of Brook Lopez on offense. And a poormans version of Lopez, because he isn't that good shooting 3's. If you are high on Simmons and his potential, then you have to trade Embiid to build around him.

Maybe we can get creative and find a way to build around them, i just don't see it. This experiment of being a huge team and hunt matchups has not been promising.

[tigermars]

Yes, that's exactly the problem. 3+D guys next to Ben and Embiid is the 2018 playoff team all over again. Maybe slighlty better if you find better defensive players. Still, it won't win you a championship.

In my opinion, the way to go is Joel souronded by shooters (he's going to be more difficult to double) and with 1 or 2 of them being able to create of the dribble and in PnR situations with him. Of course all of them have to competent defenders and a couple of them great defenders.

I love Simmons defense and his versatily, but he just is a bad fit on the halfcourt offense with Joel. It's a shame because they are a nightmare on defense and transition, but they are really flawed fit on the halfcourt offense.

If you want to play around Simmons, Joel basically has to limit himself into a 25mil/year version of Brook Lopez on offense. And a poormans version of Lopez, because he isn't that good shooting 3's. If you are high on Simmons and his potential, then you have to trade Embiid to build around him.

Maybe we can get creative and find a way to build around them, i just don't see it. This experiment of being a huge them and hunt matchups has not been promising.

If only Tobias is a bit closer to a Max player, Tobias for a CP3? Both kind of bad contracts. Not sure how much assets is needed to give up. Team is big enough. Even Old CP3 can play like TJ but up a few levels. Defense will still be even better. Draft draft replacement.

Embiid upside is probably higher , but the window isn’t as long as it is going to last. Or Ben’s playmaking needs to improve he was awol in 2018 playoffs.thyubbulle higher upside than Covington. Tobias upgrade to the Croatia kid. .

[76ciology]

Yes, that's exactly the problem. 3+D guys next to Ben and Embiid is the 2018 playoff team all over again. Maybe slighlty better if you find better defensive players. Still, it won't win you a championship.

In my opinion, the way to go is Joel souronded by shooters (he's going to be more difficult to double) and with 1 or 2 of them being able to create of the dribble and in PnR situations with him. Of course all of them have to be competent defenders and a couple of them great defenders.

I love Simmons defense and his versatily, but he just is a bad fit on the halfcourt offense with Joel. It's a shame because they are a nightmare on defense and transition, but they are really flawed fit on the halfcourt offense.

If you want to play around Simmons, Joel basically has to limit himself into a 25mil/year version of Brook Lopez on offense. And a poormans version of Lopez, because he isn't that good shooting 3's. If you are high on Simmons and his potential, then you have to trade Embiid to build around him.

Maybe we can get creative and find a way to build around them, i just don't see it. This experiment of being a huge team and hunt matchups has not been promising.

I see your point but we’re not there yet. And if you go that route it’s a risky proposition IMO. Embiid is no Shaq so he needs someone better than Kobe. Someone in the same level of a Kawhi or KD.

While Ben is no Kobe, so he needs someone atleast as good as Shaq.

I may be exaggerating but my point is, they are not THAT good that you can just have 1-2 of them and just surround with role players. They are more of the 2000 Pistons squad talent level that you need a handful of borderline stars to surround both guys.

[elchengue20]

To go the 2004 Pistons way, you need a team who fits to perfection. I don't see that hapening with them.

You don't necesarily need a Kobe, you can get two very good, not top 5 level players in that role. Like the Spurs with Ginobili and Parker. IMO what i'm saying could lead you into building a team with the Pistons or even Spurs philosophy. You loose a superstar in Simmons/Embiid for better fits around one of them.


I know it's a risky proposition. But sometimes you have to take risks to make things happen. I know it's a very difficult decision to make for the FO, and it's easier to say it in a internet forum without responsabilites lol. Still, it's the way i see it.

[elchengue20]

Yes, that's exactly the problem. 3+D guys next to Ben and Embiid is the 2018 playoff team all over again. Maybe slighlty better if you find better defensive players. Still, it won't win you a championship.

In my opinion, the way to go is Joel souronded by shooters (he's going to be more difficult to double) and with 1 or 2 of them being able to create of the dribble and in PnR situations with him. Of course all of them have to competent defenders and a couple of them great defenders.

I love Simmons defense and his versatily, but he just is a bad fit on the halfcourt offense with Joel. It's a shame because they are a nightmare on defense and transition, but they are really flawed fit on the halfcourt offense.

If you want to play around Simmons, Joel basically has to limit himself into a 25mil/year version of Brook Lopez on offense. And a poormans version of Lopez, because he isn't that good shooting 3's. If you are high on Simmons and his potential, then you have to trade Embiid to build around him.

Maybe we can get creative and find a way to build around them, i just don't see it. This experiment of being a huge them and hunt matchups has not been promising.

If only Tobias is a bit closer to a Max player, Tobias for a CP3? Both kind of bad contracts. Not sure how much assets is needed to give up. Team is big enough. Even Old CP3 can play like TJ but up a few levels. Defense will still be even better. Draft draft replacement.

Embiid upside is probably higher , but the window isn’t as long as it is going to last. Or Ben’s playmaking needs to improve he was awol in 2018 playoffs.thyubbulle higher upside than Covington. Tobias upgrade to the Croatia kid. .

I see it the same way. Embiid is going to have the higher peak, but probably the shorter window. That's why, in my opinion, we cant keep waisting time, waiting for this to work.On the other hand, Simmons could have a higher potential, but i don't think he's ever going to be a respectable shooter. It's not something i would bet on, but i understand it's debatable.


The more the time passes and Simmons fails to develop his outside shooting, the more his value around the league decreases. That's another reason to not keep waiting years for this to work. You can get a haul for Simmons if you trade him right now, i'm not so sure that will be the case in a couple of years.

Tobias for CP3 is interesting. Tobias contract is longer, but he's way younger. CP3 is the better player, but he's in his last legs, his contract could look really ugly in 21/2022, but it's going to free a lot of cap space when it ends.I don't know if the Thunder will be interested, maybe yes. I wouldn't do it if you have to give them more assets. If you get CP3, you have to trade Simmons.

So, who you can get for Simmons is important to evaluate if you pull the trigger on that deal. Now that i think about, the awnser may be all in OKC. Maybe CP3/Shae/Gallinari/picks for Tobias/Simmons ? And then trade those picks,Gallinari and Horford for a good PF/SF and some rotation players. One problem i see is that maybe Shae is a couple of years away to be the player we need.

[tigermars]

Yes, that's exactly the problem. 3+D guys next to Ben and Embiid is the 2018 playoff team all over again. Maybe slighlty better if you find better defensive players. Still, it won't win you a championship.

In my opinion, the way to go is Joel souronded by shooters (he's going to be more difficult to double) and with 1 or 2 of them being able to create of the dribble and in PnR situations with him. Of course all of them have to competent defenders and a couple of them great defenders.

I love Simmons defense and his versatily, but he just is a bad fit on the halfcourt offense with Joel. It's a shame because they are a nightmare on defense and transition, but they are really flawed fit on the halfcourt offense.

If you want to play around Simmons, Joel basically has to limit himself into a 25mil/year version of Brook Lopez on offense. And a poormans version of Lopez, because he isn't that good shooting 3's. If you are high on Simmons and his potential, then you have to trade Embiid to build around him.

Maybe we can get creative and find a way to build around them, i just don't see it. This experiment of being a huge them and hunt matchups has not been promising.

If only Tobias is a bit closer to a Max player, Tobias for a CP3? Both kind of bad contracts. Not sure how much assets is needed to give up. Team is big enough. Even Old CP3 can play like TJ but up a few levels. Defense will still be even better. Draft draft replacement.

Embiid upside is probably higher , but the window isn’t as long as it is going to last. Or Ben’s playmaking needs to improve he was awol in 2018 playoffs.thyubbulle higher upside than Covington. Tobias upgrade to the Croatia kid. .

I see it the same way. Embiid is going to have the higher peak, but probably the shorter window. That's why, in my opinion, we cant keep waisting time, waiting for this to work.On the other hand, Simmons could have a higher potential, but i don't think he's ever going to be a respectable shooter. It's not something i would bet on, but i understand it's debatable.


The more the time passes and Simmons fails to develop his outside shooting, the more his value around the league decreases. That's another reason to not keep waiting years for this to work. You can get a haul for Simmons if you trade him right now, i'm not so sure that will be the case in a couple of years.

Tobias for CP3 is interesting. Tobias contract is longer, but he's way younger. CP3 is the better player, but he's in his last legs, his contract could look really ugly in 21/2022, but it's going to free a lot of cap space when it ends.I don't know if the Thunder will be interested, maybe yes. I wouldn't do it if you have to give them more assets. If you get CP3, you have to trade Simmons.

So, who you can get for Simmons is important to evaluate if you pull the trigger on that deal. Now that i think about, the awnser may be all in OKC. Maybe CP3/Shae/Gallinari/picks for Tobias/Simmons ? And then trade those picks,Gallinari and Horford for a good PF/SF and some rotation players. One problem i see is that maybe Shae is a couple of years away to be the player we need.

CP3 goes to Philadelphia, Ben t to Hawks For Collons and number 4 pick and, which sixers attach number 4 pick for Ingram.

Pr Ben Simmons for Andrew wiggin 2020znd min GSW20200 and MIN 1st pick an assets tp truing,Richard and swing for beal

[76ciology]

To go the 2004 Pistons way, you need a team who fits to perfection. I don't see that hapening with them.

You don't necesarily need a Kobe, you can get two very good, not top 5 level players in that role. Like the Spurs with Ginobili and Parker. IMO what i'm saying could lead you into building a team with the Pistons or even Spurs philosophy. You loose a superstar in Simmons/Embiid for better fits around one of them.


I know it's a risky proposition. But sometimes you have to take risks to make things happen. I know it's a very difficult decision to make for the FO, and it's easier to say it in a internet forum without responsabilites lol. Still, it's the way i see it.

Yeah. Can be a “kobe” or 2 allstars like Gino and Parker. Problem is, Ben is just a Gino or a Parker.

I think in terms of talent, you gave a better example with the Spurs. It’s really more of trying to find to make all the talent fit.

I don’t see us trading one of Ben or Biid, going into that route is our last card IMO. And that route is likely to lead you the same journey Blazers (Oden to Dame era) and OKC (Big 4 to SGA) have.

[Phillyboy]

I've been a Sixer fan since the days of the 67 championship team so it truly pains me to say that this Sixers team, as currently constructed, cannot win it all. Particularly this season, even putting Covid-19 aside, this team is currently a six seed (rightfully so) and would need to win 4 consecutive rounds against the league's best all as the road team. A daunting task for any team but especially for this team who are a home and away Jekyll and Hyde. Very noticeable changes will need to happen in the off season or else we will be lamenting a team next year eliminated in a second round and another year of Embiid's relatively short window wasted.

[rzzzzz]

I see it the same way. Embiid is going to have the higher peak, but probably the shorter window. That's why, in my opinion, we cant keep waisting time, waiting for this to work.On the other hand, Simmons could have a higher potential, but i don't think he's ever going to be a respectable shooter. It's not something i would bet on, but i understand it's debatable.
.

this summer has got to be put up or shut up for Brett. he's had these guys for years already. they're too good to waste.

[SparksFly87]

Keep Embiid, Tobias, Simmons and Thybulle and some how land a Jrue Holiday. Championship ..

[elchengue20]

I see it the same way. Embiid is going to have the higher peak, but probably the shorter window. That's why, in my opinion, we cant keep waisting time, waiting for this to work.On the other hand, Simmons could have a higher potential, but i don't think he's ever going to be a respectable shooter. It's not something i would bet on, but i understand it's debatable.
.

this summer has got to be put up or shut up for Brett. he's had these guys for years already. they're too good to waste.

Changing Brett might help a little bit, maybe there is a coach that can make a better work than him. But he ain't a bad coach. It's the easy wayout to use him as a scapegoat.Also i think, this it's not an easy team to coach and Ben/Embiid aren't the greatest fit to build around, it's not that easy of a job as it looks.

[rzzzzz]

Changing Brett might help a little bit, maybe there is a coach that can make a better work than him. But he ain't a bad coach. It's the easy wayout to use him as a scapegoat.Also i think, this it's not an easy team to coach and Ben/Embiid aren't the greatest fit to build around, it's not that easy of a job as it looks.

Del Harris wasn't a bad coach, and Shaq and Kobe hated each other. and there's no way Gasol and Bynum make sense. but a good coach turned that into 5 rings.

[elchengue20]

Changing Brett might help a little bit, maybe there is a coach that can make a better work than him. But he ain't a bad coach. It's the easy wayout to use him as a scapegoat.Also i think, this it's not an easy team to coach and Ben/Embiid aren't the greatest fit to build around, it's not that easy of a job as it looks.

Del Harris wasn't a bad coach, and Shaq and Kobe hated each other. and there's no way Gasol and Bynum make sense. but a good coach turned that into 5 rings.

Not a good coach, the GOAT coach. Sure, if you can get a coach of that calibeer, or at least a top 3 coach, it's a no brainer to bring him in and see what he can do.

[Mik317]

Brett being gone is the move before any decision based on fit is made.

it is inevitable. Has been forever now lol. I love Brett and all he has done but lets be honest he has been saved from being fired due to other dudes **** ups for a while now lol. He got saved by Hinkie bailing because firing him after the process was seen as cruel. Bryan tried to murk him via the Dantoni hire and then murked himself and Brett being the peacekeeper was again key. Taking the champs to 7 and losing on a godlike shot gave him more time on the clock. He will again have the bubble doe excuse now but honestly the long layoff and other teams probably not going all in, kinda benefits us as a team that is pretty locked in w/ only Josh really playing for his next paycheck (in terms of persons that matter...GR3 or Burks mailing it in wouldn't surprise me)...so I don't think that saves him this time.

[ankle420breaker]

I'm definitely intrigued to see how we mesh in the bubble.

Shake's emergence and picking up Alec Burks gives us a couple of guys who can create their own shots when the offense gets stagnant in the halfcourt. That was a major hole up until just a few weeks prior to the shutdown.

Hopefully Horford comes off the bench to balance the depth for the betterment of the team. He's at his best playing the 5 and should be a matchup nightmare for most backups.

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[ConstableChaos]

How would this have played out if they traded Embiid for AD when he was available?

[BullyKing]

How would this have played out if they traded Embiid for AD when he was available?

We'd be cursing the fact that we traded Embiid for about 50 games and whatever this playoff turns out to be of AD while waiting for him to bolt to LA?

[elchengue20]

Yeah, AD was very likely going to leave, it wasnt a good idea to trade for him.

AD fit with Simmons and Horford is a litlle better than what we have with Embiid, it should have been interesting to see them play together.