Around The League: 2021-2022 Season 2.0

[ProcessDoctor]

T-Mac saying Curry isn’t on Kobe’s level is so ridiculous. Curry is an all time PG. He’ll be top ten when all is said and done.

Steph has had better impact metrics than Kobe over his entire career and didn’t ride Shaq/Pau to 4 out of his 5 championships. If Steph wins one this year, he’s clearly ahead of Kobe all time for me.

The mamba mentality bs is so overblown. That dude was gonna request a trade when the going got tough in LA post Shaq years.

[blargh]

Steph is a 2x MVP and on the cusp of potentially winning his 4 championship for the only franchise he ever played for.

Kobe/Duncan shared an era. This has been Steph's era. LeBron and Durant are just co-stars of Steph's era. Steph will likely pass the crown over to Giannis after that. With Embiid/Tatum/Booker having a darkhorse chance.

For me, it’s Steph and Lebron tied, with KD a distant third.

[Kobblehead]

I hold mercenaries in lesser regard.

Both and James and Durant got damn close to winning legitimate rings for their own teams, but bailed instead of getting over their Finals loss adversity.

It will be cool seeing Devin Booker and Jayson Tatum learn from those mistakes and stay with their teams.

[stormi]

Read on Twitter

Wiretap finally mudded.

I knew RealGM was just fictioning up quotes for clicks.

[Kobblehead]

Still don't know wtf Chicago was thinking. They traded away Wendell Carter and two 1st round picks (one of which turned into Franz freaking Wagner) for Vucevic.

[stormi]

Payed significant asset capital to downgrade players. That trade was actually worse than the Harris deal.

[76ciology]

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[76ciology]

Embiid has been coasting on defense already for years.

Yes i believe you were one of the first or the first to point this one out.

This is why i dont see him fitting to play C.
A C should be anchoring or the very least not coast on your defense and rebounding.

Is he playing at 70% on D most games? Sure.

Is that 70% still wildly impactful? Yes. Advanced statistics and the eye test support that. Embiid going all out would mean him playing a switching scheme or doing a hard show on PnR, which he’s capable of, but would wear him out. The drop coverage already is an acknowledgment that we need to save him for offense. But he still can be the anchor of a very good defense that way.

70%?

More like 50% almost entire game then 100% on the last 6 minutes of the game.

The roster structure of having someone like Mutombo play goalie with 4 non bigs is trending towards obsolete.

The game has been running heavy PnR, whereas it demands the big to step out. And when the big step out, the rim is like football without the goalie.

At the very worst, you need 2 lengthy and athletic wings who can cover distance and provide a little rim protection like the Clips/Warriors small ball/Celts set-up.

Embiid wasnt jumping to get grab boards and whenever Embiid jumps to challenge a shot, the guy can just drop pass it to another guy at the rim and it’s an easy basket.

[76ciology]

Lakers dangling Westbrook like he’s some nice asset is one of the most BS thing ive seen.

And until Lakers trade RW, they’re gonna be hot garbage

[mjkvol]

Lakers dangling Westbrook like he’s some nice asset is one of the most BS thing ive seen.

And until Lakers trade RW, they’re gonna be hot garbage

I really hope that no stupid team bails them out, but I'm sure that Silver & Co. are furiously working the phones trying to locate a patsy willing to take a bullet for "the good of the league".

[GoSixersBro]

Read on Twitter

Bruh moment.

[GoSixersBro]

Greatest player of the current era, one of the greatest all time. Completely changed the game, and still defines the way it's played today.

Which era is that?

In my opinion it's interesting with Curry because I honestly believe he ascended to stardom and was in his prime still during LeBron's era (2014-2018) and if you ask me, ain't no way Curry was greater than LeBron during those years.

Once LeBron became a Laker, I think he took a step down and in that 2019-Covid stretch, the Warriors fell off and Curry missed almost an entire season.

So the question is, was Curry ever the greatest at one point in time? Surely the most innovative and changed the game the same way Jordan and Iverson did, but does he truly own "an era"?

Curry is a level of greatness that James could never dream of touching. With one team his entire career, never abandoned a franchise after winning there and wrecking it chasing his precious 'legacy', never met in hotel rooms plotting 'superteams', doesn't make it all about himself at the expense of his team, doesn't throw other players and management under the bus, etc., etc.

Maybe I see sports greatness a little differently, but to me it's as much about things like being an invaluable part of an organization and, elevating that organization to heights it never reached, loyalty to teammates, being a class act, and a touch of humility as it is about rings and stats. James might be the greatest physical specimen that ever played, but true greatness? Hardly.

Just my opinion, of course.

I respect your opinion and agree with a lot of your points. I think when it comes to LeBron's greatness, there are two categories that it consists of: raw basketball ability/skill/talent and then the achievement (awards, how he won them like you said "elevating the team", etc.).

Like you already know, I loathe LeBron the person, but am a massive fan of his basketball ability and talent. I share the same feelings you and Kobble do about how he went about his career (forming super teams, not always taking full responsibility, hypocrisies in pressers, etc.) but to me I think he solidified his greatness in winning in 2016. I think if we're going to knock his Miami rings or the LeMickey Bubble Title 2020, we also have to bring up Curry's 0 Finals MVP's (obviously if he takes down Boston in the same fashion he played Friday he gets a massive boost) and winning 2 with Durant, the ultimate mercenary. Also the 2015 title wasn't all that impressive considering it took them 6 to beat LeBron, Mozgov, Shump, and Delly.

[mjkvol]

Which era is that?

In my opinion it's interesting with Curry because I honestly believe he ascended to stardom and was in his prime still during LeBron's era (2014-2018) and if you ask me, ain't no way Curry was greater than LeBron during those years.

Once LeBron became a Laker, I think he took a step down and in that 2019-Covid stretch, the Warriors fell off and Curry missed almost an entire season.

So the question is, was Curry ever the greatest at one point in time? Surely the most innovative and changed the game the same way Jordan and Iverson did, but does he truly own "an era"?

Curry is a level of greatness that James could never dream of touching. With one team his entire career, never abandoned a franchise after winning there and wrecking it chasing his precious 'legacy', never met in hotel rooms plotting 'superteams', doesn't make it all about himself at the expense of his team, doesn't throw other players and management under the bus, etc., etc.

Maybe I see sports greatness a little differently, but to me it's as much about things like being an invaluable part of an organization and, elevating that organization to heights it never reached, loyalty to teammates, being a class act, and a touch of humility as it is about rings and stats. James might be the greatest physical specimen that ever played, but true greatness? Hardly.

Just my opinion, of course.

I respect your opinion and agree with a lot of your points. I think when it comes to LeBron's greatness, there are two categories that it consists of: raw basketball ability/skill/talent and then the achievement (awards, how he won them like you said "elevating the team", etc.).

Like you already know, I loathe LeBron the person, but am a massive fan of his basketball ability and talent. I share the same feelings you and Kobble do about how he went about his career (forming super teams, not always taking full responsibility, hypocrisies in pressers, etc.) but to me I think he solidified his greatness in winning in 2016. I think if we're going to knock his Miami rings or the LeMickey Bubble Title 2020, we also have to bring up Curry's 0 Finals MVP's (obviously if he takes down Boston in the same fashion he played Friday he gets a massive boost) and winning 2 with Durant, the ultimate mercenary. Also the 2015 title wasn't all that impressive considering it took them 6 to beat LeBron, Mozgov, Shump, and Delly.

You know I respect your opinion as well, but I disagree with a couple of points here. First, the ultimate mercenary will always be James - he wrote the book and created the template that Durant merely copied. Second, 2016 was more about Silver stepping in once again and suspending Draymond, which at that point of a Finals was abhorrent and an obvious ploy to try to extend the series. And that Cavs team was also a James creation, with the recruitment of Love, and if not for Irving they never win anyway. 2020 is almost comical being considered a legit ring.

I respect the raw talent of James, but that's as far as it goes. No one has ever gotten away with traveling the way he does multiple times a game, and he is one of the all time whiners. It sickens me to see him placed by a sycophantic national media on the same level as true greats like Jordan, Kobe, Curry, and Bird, all of whom made their claim to greatness with one team, not hopping around the league as if they owned it.

Soon enough he will own it, when he just buys his next superteam in Vegas.

[Negrodamus]

I don't really get the gripes of forming "superteams". For LeBron, it's a product of Cleveland's ineptitude. If you work at a job and essentially carry the business to massive success despite everyone else being wholly unqualified, what sense does it make to stick around there when you can go to a much more enjoyable situation elsewhere?

If anything, I think his departure to LA is the blight on his career. A team with endless legends and the second most championships (now tied for most) is a pretty gross look in my eyes, particularly because you can finish out your career forming super teams as de facto GM in your hometown of Cleveland.

[Jailblazers7]

I respect what Lebron has done and actually think he’s been pretty loyal to his teammates just not his organizations. He’s gotten his teammates paid, brought them along to different teams, and elevated their careers in a way that often made it harder for him to win a championship lol. He’s a bad GM but a great friend.

I think he never liked Dan Gilbert (can’t blame him) and that has greatly influenced how he views organization and his loyalty to them. Steph has had a great management team (let’s give Bob Myers his flowers) and a great coach in Kerr for the majority of his career now. It’s a lot easier to stay loyalty to a team like that than it is a franchise like those early Cavs teams that Lebron played on.

I also think it’s a little ridiculous to hold the super team thing over Lebron while Curry gets a pass. Just because Steph wasn’t a vocal recruit during the Durant experience doesn’t mean he didn’t massively benefit from being on a super team. I give a lot of respect to Lebron for taking control and crafting his own teams actually. At the end of the day, he’s the one that’s held accountable for winning and losing so he decided to do that on his own terms.

I think Lebron & Steph have defined the league for a decade and have had one of the most nuanced and interesting rivalries in the leagues history. I’m not super interested in the whole ranking game but I think they’ve absolutely defined an era in a way guys like KD & Kyrie only wish they could.

[Iverson Armband]

I think LeBron is annoying and corny as hell, but there’s no way you can say he’s not the face of this era. That’s just wild lol (Steph is 1B)

[Mik317]

we talking about Steph like the series is over lol.

Celtics still got this IMO

[Jailblazers7]

T-Mac saying Curry isn’t on Kobe’s level is so ridiculous. Curry is an all time PG. He’ll be top ten when all is said and done.

There’s definitely a generation of people & players who think hitting a turnaround jumper in the mid post represents the pinnacle of human achievement.

[GoSixersBro]

Curry is a level of greatness that James could never dream of touching. With one team his entire career, never abandoned a franchise after winning there and wrecking it chasing his precious 'legacy', never met in hotel rooms plotting 'superteams', doesn't make it all about himself at the expense of his team, doesn't throw other players and management under the bus, etc., etc.

Maybe I see sports greatness a little differently, but to me it's as much about things like being an invaluable part of an organization and, elevating that organization to heights it never reached, loyalty to teammates, being a class act, and a touch of humility as it is about rings and stats. James might be the greatest physical specimen that ever played, but true greatness? Hardly.

Just my opinion, of course.

I respect your opinion and agree with a lot of your points. I think when it comes to LeBron's greatness, there are two categories that it consists of: raw basketball ability/skill/talent and then the achievement (awards, how he won them like you said "elevating the team", etc.).

Like you already know, I loathe LeBron the person, but am a massive fan of his basketball ability and talent. I share the same feelings you and Kobble do about how he went about his career (forming super teams, not always taking full responsibility, hypocrisies in pressers, etc.) but to me I think he solidified his greatness in winning in 2016. I think if we're going to knock his Miami rings or the LeMickey Bubble Title 2020, we also have to bring up Curry's 0 Finals MVP's (obviously if he takes down Boston in the same fashion he played Friday he gets a massive boost) and winning 2 with Durant, the ultimate mercenary. Also the 2015 title wasn't all that impressive considering it took them 6 to beat LeBron, Mozgov, Shump, and Delly.

You know I respect your opinion as well, but I disagree with a couple of points here. First, the ultimate mercenary will always be James - he wrote the book and created the template that Durant merely copied. Second, 2016 was more about Silver stepping in once again and suspending Draymond, which at that point of a Finals was abhorrent and an obvious ploy to try to extend the series. And that Cavs team was also a James creation, with the recruitment of Love, and if not for Irving they never win anyway. 2020 is almost comical being considered a legit ring.

I respect the raw talent of James, but that's as far as it goes. No one has ever gotten away with traveling the way he does multiple times a game, and he is one of the all time whiners. It sickens me to see him placed by a sycophantic national media on the same level as true greats like Jordan, Kobe, Curry, and Bird, all of whom made their claim to greatness with one team, not hopping around the league as if they owned it.

Soon enough he will own it, when he just buys his next superteam in Vegas.

I think this is one of the weaker excuses I've read repeatedly online for the last 6 years trying to discredit the 2016 title. Draymond accumulated his fourth flagrant foul in the Playoffs, which is WILD to think a player is notching basically 1 per series. You gotta be at least borderline dirty to pick up that many. The rule was there and applied to all players. Green himself had earned his reputation since early in his career, which would never lend him any goodwill in the future. The instance itself where he got tangled under LeBron and threw his arm twice at and towards LeBron's groin in was just a confirmation of a pattern he himself had established for years. This wasn't some contested lay-up/dunk where a hard basketball foul is undeservingly labeled as a flagrant. The dude flat out earned that suspension and it's part of the game.

I'm always ready to listen to a theory of the league trying to fix games, because trust me, I know Donaghy was just a patsy in Stern's whole orchestra, but I'm not buying that the refs were just waiting for the perfect moment in the closing minutes to get Draymond out of the game. That Game 4 was very close until the last 5 minutes. You think the refs had a directive to pull this? The whole dust up between Green and LeBron was organic and Draymond being Draymond. He's got no one to blame but himself for that flagrant.

Now even if we can't agree on that point and you say this should have been nothing more than a technical and he should've played Game 5 then that's fine and I'm not doubting momentum shifted. But the Warriors still had 3 games to clinch, especially Game 7 at home in front of their own fans, which I believe lends itself to say if Draymond played Game 5 then we definitely cannot conclude GS wraps it up in 5. Especially considering Draymond flirted with a 32 point triple-double in Game 7 and they still lost.

I don't see us agreeing, but IMO LeBron was flat out Godly that series. In my book, that solidified him as one of the all-time greats and etched him into the Top 5 easily of all-time and a case for Top 3. To take down the 73-9 Warriors while down 1-3 with a pretty meh supporting case compared to the opponent was historical. I also don't really consider those Cavs anywhere close to a superteam because Kyrie was young and unproven (unlike Wade) and Love was a shell of his former self. Lue had to lean on Tristan Thompson, Iman Shumpert and a 36 year old Richard Jefferson. That team was very thin outside LeBron and Kyrie.

[GoSixersBro]

I respect what Lebron has done and actually think he’s been pretty loyal to his teammates just not his organizations. He’s gotten his teammates paid, brought them along to different teams, and elevated their careers in a way that often made it harder for him to win a championship lol. He’s a bad GM but a great friend.

I think he never liked Dan Gilbert (can’t blame him) and that has greatly influenced how he views organization and his loyalty to them. Steph has had a great management team (let’s give Bob Myers his flowers) and a great coach in Kerr for the majority of his career now. It’s a lot easier to stay loyalty to a team like that than it is a franchise like those early Cavs teams that Lebron played on.

I also think it’s a little ridiculous to hold the super team thing over Lebron while Curry gets a pass. Just because Steph wasn’t a vocal recruit during the Durant experience doesn’t mean he didn’t massively benefit from being on a super team. I give a lot of respect to Lebron for taking control and crafting his own teams actually. At the end of the day, he’s the one that’s held accountable for winning and losing so he decided to do that on his own terms.

I think Lebron & Steph have defined the league for a decade and have had one of the most nuanced and interesting rivalries in the leagues history. I’m not super interested in the whole ranking game but I think they’ve absolutely defined an era in a way guys like KD & Kyrie only wish they could.

1000%. This is why I consider Durant more of a mercenary than LeBron. At least LeBron's superteams (although I don't consider 2014-18 Cavaliers a superteam at all) did not have prior success. Durant choked a 3-1 lead away to the '16 Warriors and then went and joined those guys. The way he jetted to Brooklyn after that drama was hysterical as well.