Joel Embiid Hypothetical Trade Thread

[Mik317]

.....have you seen Gobert's contract lol.

[Ferry Avenue]

.....have you seen Gobert's contract lol.

$10M to $12M a year cheaper than Embiid’s, depending on contract options.

[76ciology]

Regarding Gobert, I believe the Timberwolves saw him as the perfect player to mitigate KAT's weaknesses and to be a central part of their team vision. Contracts aren't solely about talent; they reflect the strategic fit within the team's overall plan. Winning a championship isn't about having the lowest or highest payroll but about building a cohesive team.

In team building, once you identify a player as the final piece of the puzzle, it makes sense to overpay rather than risk losing that player and being like a car missing a wheel. Overpaying for a critical player can sometimes be justified if it completes the team's structure and maximizes their championship potential.

[phillynative]

Just a season ago the Gobert trade was being bashed but now he is seen as a key component to the wolves success and this playiff run. What has changed?

Imo the growth of the wolves youth. McDaniels, Edward's and Reid have all took a step forward and have settled into their roles.

Gobert, Towns and Conley provide the steadfast veteran production as their youth continue to rise their ceiling.

The Sixers in comparison have Maxey youth growth to Embiids vet production. Morey IMO has to add a mixture of ascending youth and veteran leadership to the roster.

[Jhawk03]

Regarding Gobert, I believe the Timberwolves saw him as the perfect player to mitigate KAT's weaknesses and to be a central part of their team vision. Contracts aren't solely about talent; they reflect the strategic fit within the team's overall plan. Winning a championship isn't about having the lowest or highest payroll but about building a cohesive team.

In team building, once you identify a player as the final piece of the puzzle, it makes sense to overpay rather than risk losing that player and being like a car missing a wheel. Overpaying for a critical player can sometimes be justified if it completes the team's structure and maximizes their championship potential.

You hit the nail on the head as far as why a team would trade for Embiid.

[76ciology]

Regarding Gobert, I believe the Timberwolves saw him as the perfect player to mitigate KAT's weaknesses and to be a central part of their team vision. Contracts aren't solely about talent; they reflect the strategic fit within the team's overall plan. Winning a championship isn't about having the lowest or highest payroll but about building a cohesive team.

In team building, once you identify a player as the final piece of the puzzle, it makes sense to overpay rather than risk losing that player and being like a car missing a wheel. Overpaying for a critical player can sometimes be justified if it completes the team's structure and maximizes their championship potential.

You hit the nail on the head as far as why a team would trade for Embiid.

I gave the same explanation to Mjkvol on why OKC would be willing to trade for Embiid

[mjkvol]

Regarding Gobert, I believe the Timberwolves saw him as the perfect player to mitigate KAT's weaknesses and to be a central part of their team vision. Contracts aren't solely about talent; they reflect the strategic fit within the team's overall plan. Winning a championship isn't about having the lowest or highest payroll but about building a cohesive team.

In team building, once you identify a player as the final piece of the puzzle, it makes sense to overpay rather than risk losing that player and being like a car missing a wheel. Overpaying for a critical player can sometimes be justified if it completes the team's structure and maximizes their championship potential.

You hit the nail on the head as far as why a team would trade for Embiid.

I gave the same explanation to Mjkvol on why OKC would be willing to trade for Embiid

My objection to OKC trading for Embiid has nothing to do with his contract and everything to do with giving up both Holmgren and Williams along with picks, essentially selling out your future to win right now. They were an eyelash from the WCF, and have another off season and a ton of assets to get better - why push all your chips to the center of the table right now when Presti's mantra all along has been patience? You're seeing Embiid as the 'final piece to the puzzle', and I don't see the need for OKC to gut their assets for anyone besides maybe a Luka, who better fits their timeline.

[FlyingArrow]

That sounds great in theory, but the money Embiid is making could very well be prohibitive of it. The player absorbing the greatest percentage of your salary cap should also be the one carrying the team in large part, or else you simply may not have the remaining money sufficient to compensate for the lesser contribution he’s providing. This plan essentially asks Embiid to become more of a “Tobias Harris” — a guy absorbing a ton of salary cap whose contribution isn’t consistent with it.

I'd ask Embiid to be just as big a part of the team but on the defensive side instead of the offense. We've seen highlights of Embiid being insanely impactful on the defensive end. What if he did that all the time? He wouldn't have the energy to do that and score 30+ ppg, but I think we'd be a better team. In short - if Embiid is DPOY, we have a better chance at a championship than if he's MVP.

So then does he take a voluntary pay cut and become paid more along the lines of Rudy Gobert, or does he make the same money and preclude the team from acquiring additional talent just as much as he does now?

That's a silly question.

Embiid taking fewer shots is still going to be scoring 20+ ppg, have a decent 3pt shot, and have way more gravity than Gobert. If he shifts his emphasis to defense enough to be the DPOY, that does not bring him down to Gobert's level on offense.

[Ferry Avenue]

I'd ask Embiid to be just as big a part of the team but on the defensive side instead of the offense. We've seen highlights of Embiid being insanely impactful on the defensive end. What if he did that all the time? He wouldn't have the energy to do that and score 30+ ppg, but I think we'd be a better team. In short - if Embiid is DPOY, we have a better chance at a championship than if he's MVP.

So then does he take a voluntary pay cut and become paid more along the lines of Rudy Gobert, or does he make the same money and preclude the team from acquiring additional talent just as much as he does now?

That's a silly question.

Embiid taking fewer shots is still going to be scoring 20+ ppg, have a decent 3pt shot, and have way more gravity than Gobert. If he shifts his emphasis to defense enough to be the DPOY, that does not bring him down to Gobert's level on offense.

Who does the ball go to in the clutch?

[Mik317]

not being a closer does not mean you aren't the best player on the team and thus must make less.

I'm not even sure what your point is at this stage lol. Kyrie and Wade closed for Bron. Middleton closed for Giannis. Murray often closes for Jokic. Embiid taking a lesser role on offense does not suddenly make him a worse player and not worth a max.

[Ferry Avenue]

not being a closer does not mean you aren't the best player on the team and thus must make less.

I'm not even sure what your point is at this stage lol. Kyrie and Wade closed for Bron. Middleton closed for Giannis. Murray often closes for Jokic. Embiid taking a lesser role on offense does not suddenly make him a worse player and not worth a max.

So who closes for Embiid? The guy who's all of a sudden become a defensive specialist -- an unproven role for him at best -- while making among the highest salaries in the league. Are you going to win with him playing defense in the clutch at $51M a year, with nobody to hand the ball to on the offensive side?

[rzzzzz]

Embiid was not only the best player in the league when he went down, but he was playing at a historical level. Adam Silver, the guy who stepped in to save the Sixers with the Calangelos from the evil Hinkie is also responsible for setting the new minimum games played standard that enticed Embiid to come back too early from an injury and make it much worse. (Getting dived on surely didn’t help either.) I know some of us (mainly me) was hopeful he could come back from surgery all healed up to finally start one playoff season healthy. And it also looked to me that it was a mis-step that once again hobbled him. BUT, if Embiid can get the MVP, All NBA aspirations out of his system, and we can get another suitable big to play major minutes, including plenty of rest and recovery games where the big guy sits, I hate to admit it, but I’d rather keep him.

[Embiid P]

not being a closer does not mean you aren't the best player on the team and thus must make less.

I'm not even sure what your point is at this stage lol. Kyrie and Wade closed for Bron. Middleton closed for Giannis. Murray often closes for Jokic. Embiid taking a lesser role on offense does not suddenly make him a worse player and not worth a max.

So who closes for Embiid? The guy who's all of a sudden become a defensive specialist -- an unproven role for him at best -- while making among the highest salaries in the league. Are you going to win with him playing defense in the clutch at $51M a year, with nobody to hand the ball to on the offensive side?

Did you not watch the Knicks series at all, specifically game 5?

[Sixerscan]

That sounds great in theory, but the money Embiid is making could very well be prohibitive of it. The player absorbing the greatest percentage of your salary cap should also be the one carrying the team in large part, or else you simply may not have the remaining money sufficient to compensate for the lesser contribution he’s providing. This plan essentially asks Embiid to become more of a “Tobias Harris” — a guy absorbing a ton of salary cap whose contribution isn’t consistent with it.

I'd ask Embiid to be just as big a part of the team but on the defensive side instead of the offense. We've seen highlights of Embiid being insanely impactful on the defensive end. What if he did that all the time? He wouldn't have the energy to do that and score 30+ ppg, but I think we'd be a better team. In short - if Embiid is DPOY, we have a better chance at a championship than if he's MVP.

So then does he take a voluntary pay cut and become paid more along the lines of Rudy Gobert, or does he make the same money and preclude the team from acquiring additional talent just as much as he does now?

Do you really not understand that there are levels between (a) leading the entire playoffs in PPG and usage rate while being responsible for almost all defense and rebounding and having to play the entire 2nd half because his team collapses when he's off the court and (b) being a defensive specialist that averages 7 shots a game?

The idea that a guy needs to average 35 a night and anchor a defense to even justify a max contract is bananas.

[Mik317]

You groom Maxey for that role and just because Biid isn’t the main option in the clutch doesn’t mean he only takes 5 shots now and ONLY focuses on defense

The idea is that he doesn’t have to average 35 anymore and doesn’t have to be involved in every play down and can get his in the flow of the offense. Not to mention he’d still get assists off of dho and the fear of havjng him in single coverage.

Right now the defense knows where the ball is going to go and can stunt to make the catch difficult and take up time. If they had to fear offense coming from other sources it makes that stunt a lot harder

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp here

[mjkvol]

I truly respect all you guys for your patience in even reasoning with the inane twist that this troll thread has taken.

[Ferry Avenue]

You groom Maxey for that role and just because Biid isn’t the main option in the clutch doesn’t mean he only takes 5 shots now and ONLY focuses on defense

The idea is that he doesn’t have to average 35 anymore and doesn’t have to be involved in every play down and can get his in the flow of the offense. Not to mention he’d still get assists off of dho and the fear of havjng him in single coverage.

Right now the defense knows where the ball is going to go and can stunt to make the catch difficult and take up time. If they had to fear offense coming from other sources it makes that stunt a lot harder

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp here

No not difficult to grasp at all, I just find it surprising that people believe Embiid carries greater value in increasing his defensive role while decreasing his offensive role, as opposed to simply trading him and acquiring value via other players in return for him.

Again if you obtain Adebayo, Herro, and picks for example, I'd say you've accomplished "new role Embiid" with Adebayo, and you've obtained Herro, a three-level scorer who can create his own shot, and picks, and you still have room under the cap to sign Paul George for example. Now you have three potential closers -- George, Herro, and Maxey -- along with roughly the same offense and defense at the center position you're hoping to achieve with Embiid.

I mean at this point it looks like people want to keep Embiid simply because they have some kind of emotional tie to him.

[rzzzzz]

.

Again if you obtain Adebayo, Herro, and picks for example, I'd say you've accomplished "new role Embiid" with Adebayo, and you've obtained Herro, a three-level scorer who can create his own shot, and picks, and you still have room under the cap to sign Paul George for example. Now you have three potential closers -- George, Herro, and Maxey -- along with roughly the same offense and defense at the center position you're hoping to achieve with Embiid.

I mean at this point it looks like people want to keep Embiid simply because they have some kind of emotional tie to him.

While counting on Pat Riley’s naïveté? Cause Pat would take him in a heart beat. And mend fences with Jimmy to get those two together again.

[Sixerscan]

You groom Maxey for that role and just because Biid isn’t the main option in the clutch doesn’t mean he only takes 5 shots now and ONLY focuses on defense

The idea is that he doesn’t have to average 35 anymore and doesn’t have to be involved in every play down and can get his in the flow of the offense. Not to mention he’d still get assists off of dho and the fear of havjng him in single coverage.

Right now the defense knows where the ball is going to go and can stunt to make the catch difficult and take up time. If they had to fear offense coming from other sources it makes that stunt a lot harder

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp here

No not difficult to grasp at all, I just find it surprising that people believe Embiid carries greater value in increasing his defensive role while decreasing his offensive role, as opposed to simply trading him and acquiring value via other players in return for him.

Again if you obtain Adebayo, Herro, and picks for example, I'd say you've accomplished "new role Embiid" with Adebayo, and you've obtained Herro, a three-level scorer who can create his own shot, and picks, and you still have room under the cap to sign Paul George for example. Now you have three potential closers -- George, Herro, and Maxey -- along with roughly the same offense and defense at the center position you're hoping to achieve with Embiid.

I mean at this point it looks like people want to keep Embiid simply because they have some kind of emotional tie to him.

You're still not getting it (either intentionally or unintentionally) no one is talking about Embiid basically cutting his offense in half and only averaging 19 a night like Bam does. We're talking about him going from 35 to like 28. (I don't care about the literal numbers I'm just trying to explain to you what the step back that we're talking about looks like as black and white as possible)

Accusing people of bias when you aren't even comprehending the basic point is something.

[Ferry Avenue]

You groom Maxey for that role and just because Biid isn’t the main option in the clutch doesn’t mean he only takes 5 shots now and ONLY focuses on defense

The idea is that he doesn’t have to average 35 anymore and doesn’t have to be involved in every play down and can get his in the flow of the offense. Not to mention he’d still get assists off of dho and the fear of havjng him in single coverage.

Right now the defense knows where the ball is going to go and can stunt to make the catch difficult and take up time. If they had to fear offense coming from other sources it makes that stunt a lot harder

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp here

No not difficult to grasp at all, I just find it surprising that people believe Embiid carries greater value in increasing his defensive role while decreasing his offensive role, as opposed to simply trading him and acquiring value via other players in return for him.

Again if you obtain Adebayo, Herro, and picks for example, I'd say you've accomplished "new role Embiid" with Adebayo, and you've obtained Herro, a three-level scorer who can create his own shot, and picks, and you still have room under the cap to sign Paul George for example. Now you have three potential closers -- George, Herro, and Maxey -- along with roughly the same offense and defense at the center position you're hoping to achieve with Embiid.

I mean at this point it looks like people want to keep Embiid simply because they have some kind of emotional tie to him.

You're still not getting it (either intentionally or unintentionally) no one is talking about Embiid basically cutting his offense in half and only averaging 19 a night like Bam does. We're talking about him going from 35 to like 28. (I don't care about the literal numbers I'm just trying to explain to you what the step back that we're talking about looks like as black and white as possible)

Accusing people of bias when you aren't even comprehending the basic point is something.

As a function of averaging ~7 fewer points per game, what exactly do you expect Embiid to do defensively he isn't doing currently, and how will that help the Sixers get beyond the second round?