ImageImageImage

Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, sixers hoops, Foshan, Sixerscan

MikRay
Senior
Posts: 628
And1: 207
Joined: May 27, 2024

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#121 » by MikRay » Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:02 am

Covi_Marsh wrote::lol: Kyle Lowry with the no trade clause



That is comical
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,927
And1: 26,898
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#122 » by 76ciology » Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:31 am

Iverson Armband wrote:I mean, he’s won MVP, been runner up MVP multiple times, scored 70+ points, etc. What is his real incentive to drop weight and play different?

It’s not criticism because he largely escapes it by virtue of the fact that he’s the best player and there is always an even bigger choke artist than him to key in on (Simmons, Harden, maybe soon to be George). Secondly, when he plays “meh” in the playoffs (for him), people just make the excuse that he’s hurt and blame injuries instead of his play style and adjustments to playoff basketball so he doesn’t really catch any heat there either. On top of that, I’m sure the organization is scared to say anything remotely critiquing his game for fear of pissing him off.

This year is going to tell us what Joel is really made of. This is the year when it should be really clear if he cares about winning in a real way or if he’s just cool with being the regular season GOAT. He’s got a great cast and 2 other legit All Stars playing next to him. So far it doesn’t look good, but it’s still early so I’m hoping for the best.


Embiid was taught to play in a way that maximizes his chances of winning MVP, often relying on drawing fouls. However, if he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn the more cerebral style of international basketball.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,927
And1: 26,898
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#123 » by 76ciology » Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:35 am

Embiid needs to emulate Jokic's scoring approach.

He should focus on becoming a better jump shooter, excelling in post play, and mastering floaters and hook shots. This means eliminating face-up moves that rely heavily on drawing fouls from the referees.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,927
And1: 26,898
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#124 » by 76ciology » Thu Jul 18, 2024 5:50 am

sixers hoops wrote:
76ciology wrote:Regarding KJ Martin, we'll have to wait and see how he performs. Even if we plan to make him a starter, his performance will still ultimately determine his role.

It seems he isn't just a filler in the Harden trade, considering the playing time he's received and the decision not to allocate those minutes to others. His salary is comparable to players like Kelly Oubre or Caleb Martin, rather than a ballooned $16M contract. I've seen him shoot in practice, and based on the small sample size, he appears to be a reliable corner three shooter. Teams dont allow or players usually dont have that high of a 3pt attempt rate if the player can’t shoot. He doesn't need a significant improvement to become as good of a shooter as Kelly Oubre.

Overall, I view KJ Martin as a power forward version of Oubre.

P.S. Rico Hines knew him since he is 15, so he’d be the best person to evaluate him.


I can’t imagine he has any chance at being a starter. You mention his salary almost as a supporting point that he is earning a similar salary to Oubre and Martin, and is thus valued as such. KJ Martin received that salary as it benefits the Sixers procedurally. His dad even acknowledged this recently. It’s not a secret to anybody why he received this contract and it’s certainly not indicative of any on-court value the Sixers see in him. You’re making a case that even his own father didn’t try to make.

Ultimately, people are worried that none of our best players have the size to guard power forwards, but somehow KJ completes the puzzle because he is 6’6, 215? He is barely bigger than Caleb Martin, who is actually good and you don’t need any mental gymnastics to make a case for him as a starter. He shot 30% from three last year, so those threes you saw him hit in practice prob aren’t the best indicator of his ability. I don’t know what evidence we have to call him a reliable three point shooter. I watched Ben hit several threes in pregame warmups. And Oubre isn’t a very good outside shooter, so if KJ needs improvement to get to Oubre level, that is very telling.

And if we want to use his minutes last year to determine that he is more than a throw-in in a trade, let’s examine how Nurse used him in the playoffs to determine how much the Sixers value him on the court. He didn’t play in the playoffs. He seems like a nice kid and I hope he plays well for us, but everything you said was mostly a figment of your imagination. He didn’t get paid the contract on merit. He has never shown to be a reliable three point shooter. The Sixers didn’t use him like a player they really liked. He mostly got minutes when we were desperate. If we start a 6’6, 215 power forward, who has VERY LIMITED offensive skill and isn’t special on the defensive end, then Morey miscalculated the versatility of his guys who are actually good at basketball. I think he could earn some minutes off the bench, but him as a starter makes no sense to me.


Thanks for your response. I appreciate the opportunity to double-check these hot takes.

First off, I understand the size issue with KJ Martin. He is undersized for the PF position, but considering Tobias Harris was effective at PF alongside Embiid, Martin could potentially be a better fit in due to his elite athleticism and higher motor. Martin also has experience playing PF for the Clippers and Rockets, so it's not a completely new role for him. After doing some research, I also found that he was acquired by Clips for him to play PF and to minimize Kawhi’s minutes at PF.

While I would prefer someone bigger and support a double-big lineup, given our current team options, free agents, and trade market availability, having KJ Martin at PF to start games or in certain spurts could be a viable option.

I also need to correct myself regarding his shooting. While he may not be a reliable three-point shooter. His gap regarding 3pt shooting isn’t that big compared to Kelly Oubre’s 3pt shooting, specially with a good offseason development.

Overall, I'm open to exploring better options if they're available. However, the idea of starting KJ Martin is a way to maximize our current roster rotation. He can start games without necessarily logging the most minutes at his position or finishing games. If it works, great. If not, it could boost his trade value, allowing us to acquire a proven player like Dorian Finney-Smith while another team takes a chance on him.

Tyrese Maxey/Kyle Lowry
Kelly Oubre/Eric Gordon/Caleb Martin
Paul George/Caleb Martin/Ricky Council
KJ Martin/Paul George/Kelly Oubre
Joel Embiid/Drummond
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Jhawk03
Rookie
Posts: 1,070
And1: 386
Joined: May 23, 2003
Location: Time for a new contract.......

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#125 » by Jhawk03 » Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:55 am

oldschool1 wrote:No one said KJ was a top 5 option on this team. I A team like the sixers with three stars do not need to start their top five players. KJ is only 23 years old . There are lots of examples of players figuring out their roles at that age. KJ just needs to step up his defense, rebound and dunk the ball ( and hopefully hit 30 % of his open 3s). His swing skill is how well he can guard. We will see. Not sure if a another younger player (like Brissett, Okeke) or older player (Crowder, Morris) would be a better option, though I would sign Brisset or Okeke to add some competition.


"And that run of posts on KMart Jr was pretty hilarious. I know it’s the lull of the off-season, but let’s not get crazy with boredom. Martin won’t be a top 9 option on this team, let alone top 5.
Black Mage
Head Coach
Posts: 6,076
And1: 5,731
Joined: Feb 24, 2017
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#126 » by Black Mage » Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:08 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
Jailblazers7 wrote:We haven't even made it to the Olympics yet so I’m not gonna freak out. He’s a notorious slow starter that has never played FIBA basketball & Team USA always has kinks to work out from throwing this much talent together last minute. I would love if he stopped grifting & used the offseason to drop weight but at this point I’ve accepted that those things are not going to happen.

I still think this experience is a good thing. He will learn to play a different style, observe how excellent leaders like Lebron/Steph operate, and get in some competitive basketball during a period where he’d normally be crossing up cones with Drew Hanlen. At minimum, he gets a nice serving of humble pie & comes hope with the realization that he has serious work to do before becoming a champion.


This a is a great point that you make right. MIK followed it up with some good stuff too. He's playing with the best of the best. Take this experience and learn from it. If he's the introspective thinker that I believe him to be, then he's going to come out a better player because of all this. Of course, I didn't want him doing this because of the knee, but you've made me look at it a different way.


If the only thing Joel comes out of this with is learning how to set effective hard screens then it's a big win for us. One of the things that most drives me nuts with him is his fake screens where he clearly has no intention of setting the screen and is just slipping it waiting for the ball to come back. It makes it so much harder for our guards and wings when a big man won't give a hard screen.
PhillyFan11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,464
And1: 600
Joined: Jun 23, 2018

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#127 » by PhillyFan11 » Thu Jul 18, 2024 1:20 pm

35/11/5 on 1 leg while playing with Maxey (and sometimes Oubre) as the only real help…and people are worried about Jo?

I know internet message boards are always reactionary, but this 1 is for sure over the top. Relax people. Staying healthy is the only worry we have with Jo.
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,615
And1: 18,860
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#128 » by Stanford » Thu Jul 18, 2024 2:03 pm

PhillyFan11 wrote:I know internet message boards are always reactionary, but this 1 is for sure over the top.


What does reactionary mean to you?
FireMorey
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,733
And1: 4,526
Joined: Mar 19, 2018
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#129 » by FireMorey » Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:10 pm

Does anyone know when the olympic basketball is over?
eyeatoma
RealGM
Posts: 29,860
And1: 13,153
Joined: Feb 25, 2005
     

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#130 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:11 pm

FireMorey wrote:Does anyone know when the olympic basketball is over?



Depends on how far you go. The Olympics starts on July 24th and ends on August 11th.
M2J
Analyst
Posts: 3,655
And1: 1,869
Joined: Sep 04, 2012

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#131 » by M2J » Thu Jul 18, 2024 5:06 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
Read on Twitter


Feels like Ingram would’ve almost definitely been a Sixer had we not signed PG.


I don't know how to feel about this..... Depends on what the trade would require I guess
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,927
And1: 26,898
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#132 » by 76ciology » Thu Jul 18, 2024 5:18 pm

[x]
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
PhillyFan11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,464
And1: 600
Joined: Jun 23, 2018

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#133 » by PhillyFan11 » Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:46 pm

Stanford wrote:
PhillyFan11 wrote:I know internet message boards are always reactionary, but this 1 is for sure over the top.


What does reactionary mean to you?


Watching 1 fairly meaningless FIBA game in July and pretending there’s cause for concern
sixers hoops
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 10,081
And1: 3,529
Joined: Jun 28, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#134 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:51 pm

76ciology wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
76ciology wrote:Regarding KJ Martin, we'll have to wait and see how he performs. Even if we plan to make him a starter, his performance will still ultimately determine his role.

It seems he isn't just a filler in the Harden trade, considering the playing time he's received and the decision not to allocate those minutes to others. His salary is comparable to players like Kelly Oubre or Caleb Martin, rather than a ballooned $16M contract. I've seen him shoot in practice, and based on the small sample size, he appears to be a reliable corner three shooter. Teams dont allow or players usually dont have that high of a 3pt attempt rate if the player can’t shoot. He doesn't need a significant improvement to become as good of a shooter as Kelly Oubre.

Overall, I view KJ Martin as a power forward version of Oubre.

P.S. Rico Hines knew him since he is 15, so he’d be the best person to evaluate him.


I can’t imagine he has any chance at being a starter. You mention his salary almost as a supporting point that he is earning a similar salary to Oubre and Martin, and is thus valued as such. KJ Martin received that salary as it benefits the Sixers procedurally. His dad even acknowledged this recently. It’s not a secret to anybody why he received this contract and it’s certainly not indicative of any on-court value the Sixers see in him. You’re making a case that even his own father didn’t try to make.

Ultimately, people are worried that none of our best players have the size to guard power forwards, but somehow KJ completes the puzzle because he is 6’6, 215? He is barely bigger than Caleb Martin, who is actually good and you don’t need any mental gymnastics to make a case for him as a starter. He shot 30% from three last year, so those threes you saw him hit in practice prob aren’t the best indicator of his ability. I don’t know what evidence we have to call him a reliable three point shooter. I watched Ben hit several threes in pregame warmups. And Oubre isn’t a very good outside shooter, so if KJ needs improvement to get to Oubre level, that is very telling.

And if we want to use his minutes last year to determine that he is more than a throw-in in a trade, let’s examine how Nurse used him in the playoffs to determine how much the Sixers value him on the court. He didn’t play in the playoffs. He seems like a nice kid and I hope he plays well for us, but everything you said was mostly a figment of your imagination. He didn’t get paid the contract on merit. He has never shown to be a reliable three point shooter. The Sixers didn’t use him like a player they really liked. He mostly got minutes when we were desperate. If we start a 6’6, 215 power forward, who has VERY LIMITED offensive skill and isn’t special on the defensive end, then Morey miscalculated the versatility of his guys who are actually good at basketball. I think he could earn some minutes off the bench, but him as a starter makes no sense to me.


Thanks for your response. I appreciate the opportunity to double-check these hot takes.

First off, I understand the size issue with KJ Martin. He is undersized for the PF position, but considering Tobias Harris was effective at PF alongside Embiid, Martin could potentially be a better fit in due to his elite athleticism and higher motor. Martin also has experience playing PF for the Clippers and Rockets, so it's not a completely new role for him. After doing some research, I also found that he was acquired by Clips for him to play PF and to minimize Kawhi’s minutes at PF.

While I would prefer someone bigger and support a double-big lineup, given our current team options, free agents, and trade market availability, having KJ Martin at PF to start games or in certain spurts could be a viable option.

I also need to correct myself regarding his shooting. While he may not be a reliable three-point shooter. His gap regarding 3pt shooting isn’t that big compared to Kelly Oubre’s 3pt shooting, specially with a good offseason development.

Overall, I'm open to exploring better options if they're available. However, the idea of starting KJ Martin is a way to maximize our current roster rotation. He can start games without necessarily logging the most minutes at his position or finishing games. If it works, great. If not, it could boost his trade value, allowing us to acquire a proven player like Dorian Finney-Smith while another team takes a chance on him.

Tyrese Maxey/Kyle Lowry
Kelly Oubre/Eric Gordon/Caleb Martin
Paul George/Caleb Martin/Ricky Council
KJ Martin/Paul George/Kelly Oubre
Joel Embiid/Drummond


All your posts are always very well thought out, but this point has me baffled. Putting someone who isn’t good in the starting lineup makes no sense to me. It’s not that he’s undersized. It’s that he is undersized and not very good. Again, if he needs development to shoot like Oubre, who isn’t a very good shooter, then he isn’t even close. Putting a bad player in the rotation isn’t a way to maximize your rotation.

I don’t think anybody is going to trade for KJ Martin as much as they want picks and have to take his expiring contract to make the trade work. I don’t think boosting his trade value is a priority for us. He is pretty much like a human trade exception.

Even though undersized, I think KJ’s minutes will be at PF, but he only has one good trait… high motor. His shooting, size, defense, rebounding are all below average. Nevertheless, he is a hustle defender for his size and might be able to matchup as a backup power forward. And he isn’t a great rebounder, but he didn’t get over 5 rebounds a few times last year and got double digit rebounds once. I’m not sure how his overall rebound percentage looked.

I think the conversation should be could KJ earn backup power forward minutes, but definitely not starter. I’m wrong a lot so who knows.
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,615
And1: 18,860
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#135 » by Stanford » Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:53 pm

PhillyFan11 wrote:
Stanford wrote:
PhillyFan11 wrote:I know internet message boards are always reactionary, but this 1 is for sure over the top.


What does reactionary mean to you?


Watching 1 fairly meaningless FIBA game in July and pretending there’s cause for concern


Okay, just checking. That's not what reactionary means, by the way.
User avatar
Sixersftw
RealGM
Posts: 19,199
And1: 9,491
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Location: Shoot a 3 you coward
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#136 » by Sixersftw » Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:09 pm

Stanford wrote:
PhillyFan11 wrote:
Stanford wrote:
What does reactionary mean to you?


Watching 1 fairly meaningless FIBA game in July and pretending there’s cause for concern


Okay, just checking. That's not what reactionary means, by the way.

I mean, I've seen some threads on the GB that are definitely reactionary.
They say an analytics man doesn't have a heart, but I ran the numbers and nothing can be further from the truth - Sam Hinkie probably
sixers hoops
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 10,081
And1: 3,529
Joined: Jun 28, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#137 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:13 pm

Read on Twitter


Pretty good overview of our offseason. If you have been following the nuances of Morey’s cap strategy, then probably nothing new for you in this video.
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,615
And1: 18,860
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#138 » by Stanford » Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:58 pm

Sixersftw wrote:
Stanford wrote:
PhillyFan11 wrote:
Watching 1 fairly meaningless FIBA game in July and pretending there’s cause for concern


Okay, just checking. That's not what reactionary means, by the way.

I mean, I've seen some threads on the GB that are definitely reactionary.


True
PhillyFan11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,464
And1: 600
Joined: Jun 23, 2018

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#139 » by PhillyFan11 » Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:16 pm

Stanford wrote:
PhillyFan11 wrote:
Stanford wrote:
What does reactionary mean to you?


Watching 1 fairly meaningless FIBA game in July and pretending there’s cause for concern


Okay, just checking. That's not what reactionary means, by the way.


You caught me. I used the word as a verb instead of a noun. I’ll apologize to the grammar police
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,615
And1: 18,860
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5 

Post#140 » by Stanford » Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:34 pm

If you say so

Return to Philadelphia 76ers