Game 4 Pistons @ Sixers

[76ciology]

I thought Reggie Jackson was solid for the Nuggets last season, especially when Jamal Murray was out.

My guess is that he needs to play alongside a dominant big like Embiid to replicate that success, whereas he’s less effective in a two man game with someone like Drummond where you need a superior shooter who can take deep pull up 3s off the two man game. Plus, he won’t contribute to our 3pt point shooting like Lowry, Gordon, or McCain do.

[Mik317]

yes I expect the team to be bad when its missing two of their best players. Its just that it has always felt like we aren't even a basketball team at times lol

Its doubly worse because they allegedly knew Biid would be out and the plan for that was a 35 year old wing ...

I am sure with PG back we will look better but it continues to show idk a lack of creativity or forward thinking. Eric Gordon probably does work better next to Biid but he seems pretty useless without a him or an actual set up guy. Oubre's worst traits are when he is asked to do too much and yet he remains close to the top scoring option list.
Morey's team building strat seems to be just the best player does everything and thats it and currently he expects Maxey to helm that role.

I'm not going to sit here and act like I have all the answers but idk even at "full strength" I still think this roster has too many guys who only in theory can do a lot of things but in reality are just mid at a lot of stuff at best. Kyle Lowry shouldn't be relied on this much. KJ Martin shouldn't be in a rotation. Maxey and Gordon are our only legit shooters and that is iffy

the simple answer is def ..we are missing our best two guys...shut up but at some point you'd think we'd be more prepared for that, no?

[MikRay]

Where was Joel tonight? What’s the reason he didn’t show up at the game?

[Decipher]

I thought Reggie Jackson was solid for the Nuggets last season, especially when Jamal Murray was out.

My guess is that he needs to play alongside a dominant big like Embiid to replicate that success, whereas he’s less effective in a two man game with someone like Drummond where you need a superior shooter who can take deep pull up 3s off the two man game. Plus, he won’t contribute to our 3pt point shooting like Lowry, Gordon, or McCain do.

Jackson isn't a bad player at all plus it's impossible to determine whether he can play with Drummond etc if he doesnt see the floor

[FlyingArrow]

What in the world happened to this team? Joel missed over half the season last year and we weren't this bad. I thought our bench and role players situation was improved, but we're down 14 to one of the worst teams in the league. I'm not expecting to be a contender without PG & Joel, but I did think we'd be a play-in team just based on Maxey plus the rest. Looks like we're one of the worst teams in the league without PG & Joel.

This. They play like a team where the coach and roster were blindsided by two stars missing time and weren’t remotely prepared for it. It shouldn’t be this bad. As each day goes by they’re ruining all the good grace they built up and the worst part is they don’t seem to care as an organization. They’re so blasé about it all

Really don't get the point of this. It's really a shock to people that we're going to have some terrible nights when 2 of our 3 offensive creators are missing? We have almost no shot creation talent outside of Maxey (who can't go nuclear every night), all the other guys are just meant to play off ball or on closeouts etc. And where in the world would people get that we're a play in team without PG and Embiid? We were on like a 28-win pace last year without Embiid, and we basically swapped out Tobias and some decent role guys for PG, who also isn't playing now.

Also the Pistons are much improved, plus they shot 42% from 3 tonight while we shot 29%. When we're not winning the 3pt lotto this is how it's gonna look without Embiid and PG.

A 28-win pace is better than losing in a blowout to a team that won 14 games last year. It only took 36 wins to make the play-in last year. I hadn't done the math until just now, but I would have expected that our alleged depth improvements would cover that gap to make us a play-in level team even when PG and Embiid were out. However, I didn't take into account that Tobias is gone. PG is a huge step up over Tobias. But now we're without Tobias or PG, and that goes a long way toward explaining what happened last night. And, for that matter, Tobias is helping raise the floor for the Pistons, too. They could be a 28-win team this year themselves - doubling what they had last year. Though there's a good chance they self-sabotage for Cooper Flagg.

[ankle420breaker]

Where was Joel tonight? What’s the reason he didn’t show up at the game?

He does this all the time. Inexcusable.

Sent from my SM-S921U using RealGM mobile app

[the_process]

Maxey
McCain
Council
Martin
Drummond

I'd give this lineup the bulk of the minutes until PG and Embiid return. High effort, decent shooting, good creation.

I'm not against it; but Nurse probably suffers an aneurysm trying to get defensive stops.

Are we sure Nurse is awake? Or is he just resting between gigs?

[stormi]

I see a lot of people saying that "well, what team wouldn't struggle without their two best players active and in the line-up?"

and while that is true, all I can see while watching these non-Joel Embiid led teams is a roster that he'll have to once again put on his spine and watch capitulate 15+ point leads while he rests. the depth surely isn't good enough and I don't see a solution on the market either

We're handcuffed to this experiment and Morey's play, so there isn't any point fretting about it now, they could still win a championship, it would just take generational positive injury luck, a Hakeem/Dirk-esque run from Joel Embiid and a visit from Sir Achilles to a couple Celtics.

all in all, 2-5% chance imo.

[Mik317]

The Warriors have spanked teams without Curry.

Its called building an actual roster and not expecting one or two players to just carry at all times.

Morey only knows how to build one way

[Arsenal]

You guys really expect too much. Team is 1-3 without PG and Jo. They would be a 20-25 win team if they had to play the full season without both of them. We all know they're going nowhere unless healthy.

The real problem is we might dig too big of a hole record-wise, forcing us into early bad playoff matchups. Like last year.

This team needs homecourt advantage and to avoid the Celtics as long as possible to have a good shot at a title.

[Arsenal]

You'd think last night was a game for Reggie Jackson to show out. We have zero shot creation besides Maxey. The fact he got a DNP-CD is a sign he might be cooked.

[FireMorey]

I think they're better than 20-25 wins without them. Well, they should be. Maxey is a star, Drummond is a solid NBA center, Caleb Martin has been a major contributor on Finals teams, Oubre had a solid year last year. Quibble with the win totals, but still, they should not be getting crushed by the likes of the Pistons.

Maybe if they didn't blow so many assets and opportunities in the past, they wouldn't have needed to go all in on PG like they did this summer. Because of past mistakes, they basically had to be in position to let their entire roster's contracts expire except like two players to have a chance to legitimately upgrade the team. They really didn't have any other options unless you wanted to break that PG contract up into multiple smaller ones. I'm not sure that solves their problems.

At least they still have all their picks to trade and can make a major deadline acquisition if they need to. So even this roster with Embiid and PG isn't complete yet.

[76ciology]

I see a lot of people saying that "well, what team wouldn't struggle without their two best players active and in the line-up?"

and while that is true, all I can see while watching these non-Joel Embiid led teams is a roster that he'll have to once again put on his spine and watch capitulate 15+ point leads while he rests. the depth surely isn't good enough and I don't see a solution on the market either

We're handcuffed to this experiment and Morey's play, so there isn't any point fretting about it now, they could still win a championship, it would just take generational positive injury luck, a Hakeem/Dirk-esque run from Joel Embiid and a visit from Sir Achilles to a couple Celtics.

all in all, 2-5% chance imo.

Do you think it’s due to our lack of depth?

I thought we were more talented than the Raptors team that beat us, and I expected us to have better depth than this Pistons team. The difference is that the Pistons’ top two players are just significantly better than ours.

Overall, though, I think it’s more about Maxey struggling to carry the offense (as if Tobi’s shooting spirit went to his body), outside of that Pacers game in this stretch. As a result, we’re running plays that rely on Caleb and Oubre to step up as our second and third options.

[Sixerscan]

I see a lot of people saying that "well, what team wouldn't struggle without their two best players active and in the line-up?"

and while that is true, all I can see while watching these non-Joel Embiid led teams is a roster that he'll have to once again put on his spine and watch capitulate 15+ point leads while he rests. the depth surely isn't good enough and I don't see a solution on the market either

We're handcuffed to this experiment and Morey's play, so there isn't any point fretting about it now, they could still win a championship, it would just take generational positive injury luck, a Hakeem/Dirk-esque run from Joel Embiid and a visit from Sir Achilles to a couple Celtics.

all in all, 2-5% chance imo.

Do you think it’s due to our lack of depth?

I thought we were more talented than the Raptors team that beat us, and I expected us to have better depth than this Pistons team. The difference is that the Pistons’ top two players are just significantly better than ours.

Overall, though, I think it’s more about Maxey struggling to carry the offense (as if Tobi’s shooting spirit went to his body), outside of that Pacers game in this stretch. As a result, we’re running plays that rely on Caleb and Oubre to step up as our second and third options.

Maxey had 32 last night on an average TS% and is currently tied for the league lead in points per game. Unless you expect Maxey to average 50 what you're describing is a lack of depth.

That being said I don't think evaluating "non-Joel Embiid led teams" when George also isn't playing really makes sense.

[Mik317]

Its fake depth in a sense.

Oubre and Martin are both guys who are fine at most things but can't scale up. Others rely on the gravity of Biid to just exist.

Good depth requires the role players to be near elite at something.

As you stated a quite part of our struggles is that we can't shoot for ****. Thats how you make up for a bad night from your main scorer. Our shooters are all "technically" good shooters but not always willing or capable of getting good looks without being spoonfed them.

And yes PG will help this a lot by himself I still think the team is missing a real creator type. IMO the Oubre or Martin money should have gone to that roleset..but of course IDK who that would have been tbf

[NearingZero]

I think they're better than 20-25 wins without them. Well, they should be. Maxey is a star, Drummond is a solid NBA center, Caleb Martin has been a major contributor on Finals teams, Oubre had a solid year last year. Quibble with the win totals, but still, they should not be getting crushed by the likes of the Pistons.

Maybe if they didn't blow so many assets and opportunities in the past, they wouldn't have needed to go all in on PG like they did this summer. Because of past mistakes, they basically had to be in position to let their entire roster's contracts expire except like two players to have a chance to legitimately upgrade the team. They really didn't have any other options unless you wanted to break that PG contract up into multiple smaller ones. I'm not sure that solves their problems.

At least they still have all their picks to trade and can make a major deadline acquisition if they need to. So even this roster with Embiid and PG isn't complete yet.

Drummond is not a solid starter. Good backup, sure, but he limits the offense significantly.

In Miami's 2023 playoff run, Martin was one of 4 guys (after Jimmy & Bam) to score between 11.5 and 12.7 ppg. He's not a clear #3 guy, let alone anything better than that.

Oubre is an inefficient scorer, and if he's your #2 guy, you're going to lose a lot of games.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone expects the $81M worth of payroll currently available to be anything but terrible. The lowest spending team in the league is $130M.

[Negrodamus]

Maxey was getting into the lane with relative ease last night. I don't know if it's because he's leveled up or if it's because we played the Pistons, but he looked better in that regard than any other point in his career.

I also felt like McCain was lowkey good at his herky-jerky way of getting into the lane. One he starts getting comfortable and better with his touch at the rim, he's going to be very nice on offense.

Would love for one of our guys to become Josh Hart and be a major hustle guy. Martin and Council seem like the best options in that regard. All I know is we lacked on many hustle plays last night and that's with Drummond and Martin are the starters. I don't anticipate Embiid and PG outhustling them, lol.

[Arsenal]

There's nothing wrong with our depth. Our depth will be perfectly fine when our stars are playing.

Expecting this to be a good or even mediocre team while missing Joel and PG is pure homerism and delusion.

[Iscull]

Maxey
McCain
Council
Martin
Drummond

I'd give this lineup the bulk of the minutes until PG and Embiid return. High effort, decent shooting, good creation.

If you're talking about K-Mart than absolutely.

I also don't know why Ricky isn't playing. I think he's a better all around scorer than Oubre

[Iscull]

Its fake depth in a sense.

Oubre and Martin are both guys who are fine at most things but can't scale up. Others rely on the gravity of Biid to just exist.

Good depth requires the role players to be near elite at something.

As you stated a quite part of our struggles is that we can't shoot for ****. Thats how you make up for a bad night from your main scorer. Our shooters are all "technically" good shooters but not always willing or capable of getting good looks without being spoonfed them.

And yes PG will help this a lot by himself I still think the team is missing a real creator type. IMO the Oubre or Martin money should have gone to that roleset..but of course IDK who that would have been tbf

I feel like our team is stricly built for the playoffs, not regular season.

Caleb Martin starting in replace of Harris last year would have been a game changer against the Knicks. He's not going to get 20, but he'll hit some big shots, defend, and scrap for rebounds.

Right now, we're asking him to be a point forward and be a 2nd/3rd scoring option. That's insane