Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[broseph13]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on "fit" in the Sixers situation...we won TEN games last year. With a ten win team, you take the best available, especially if you believe it's a franchise altering player, and restructure/make trades to accommodate the new, incoming player. If the Sixers won 30-35 games last year or at least had their franchise caliber player identified, THEN I would agree that fit is important since you already have something in the making. However, that's not the case with this team and therefore there's no need to draft based on fit.

All Colangelo should be doing now is figuring out who is the best franchise-caliber talent between Simmons and Ingram and make adjustments after that decision has been made. This decision should be finalized 2 weeks before the draft so that trades can be made prior to.

[76ciology]

Simmons to me translates into a mix of Lamar Odom and Blake Griffin. Ingram translates to me to a Rudy gay with better defense. Ingram lacks an elite first step and the ball handling to get pass people, which I think could hold him back from being an elite player.

If I'm the Sixers, I'm going to compare which one is more fixable. Simmons lack of a jump shot as a PF, or Ingram's non elite first step and lack of elite level ball handling. Whichever you think is more fixable and which player has the higher ceiling if those issues aren't fixed, that's the one you pick. After watching more video on Simmons, I feel like if you play him at PF, he can be a very good PF that uses his skill in the post and his first step to blow past any PF in the league.

Ingram doesn't need that elite first step. Because the defender would need to stay close at him, he only need 2 dribbles from the 3pt line to the rim.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnyCsbjxNOw[/youtube]

Just watch 0.26-0.33

He is also very long and underratedly athletic that he'll eventually be a good finisher around the rim as he adds strengths just like Durant and Giannis.

[76ciology]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on "fit" in the Sixers situation...we won TEN games last year. With a ten win team, you take the best available, especially if you believe it's a franchise altering player, and restructure/make trades to accommodate the new, incoming player. If the Sixers won 30-35 games last year or at least had their franchise caliber player identified, THEN I would agree that fit is important since you already have something in the making. However, that's not the case with this team and therefore there's no need to draft based on fit.

All Colangelo should be doing now is figuring out who is the best franchise-caliber talent between Simmons and Ingram and make adjustments after that decision has been made. This decision should be finalized 2 weeks before the draft so that trades can be made prior to.

How about this then?

Ingram fits the way the NBA is evolving right now. Ingram's strengths like rim protection(at the wing) and 3pt is what the league heavily values right now.

[broseph13]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on "fit" in the Sixers situation...we won TEN games last year. With a ten win team, you take the best available, especially if you believe it's a franchise altering player, and restructure/make trades to accommodate the new, incoming player. If the Sixers won 30-35 games last year or at least had their franchise caliber player identified, THEN I would agree that fit is important since you already have something in the making. However, that's not the case with this team and therefore there's no need to draft based on fit.

All Colangelo should be doing now is figuring out who is the best franchise-caliber talent between Simmons and Ingram and make adjustments after that decision has been made. This decision should be finalized 2 weeks before the draft so that trades can be made prior to.

How about this then?

Ingram fits the way the NBA is evolving right now. Ingram's strengths like rim protection(at the wing) and 3pt is what the league heavily values right now.

My issue with Ingram is that although I think he'll eventually become a very good, make multiple all-star teams, and may even have more upside than Simmons, I think he's going to struggle in his first 2-3 years in the League due to his size. On the other hand, I think Simmons will come in and put up 18/10/5 on 50% shooting almost immediately. Also, Simmons is the type of player I can see free agents wanting to play with due to his passing and unselfishness while Ingram doesn't seem like the type of player that will attract free agents...kind of like how Carmelo and Harden don't attract free agents despite being top 10-15 NBA players.

[Jack Bauer]

If I'm the Sixers, I'm going to compare which one is more fixable. Simmons lack of a jump shot as a PF, or Ingram's non elite first step and lack of elite level ball handling. Whichever you think is more fixable and which player has the higher ceiling if those issues aren't fixed, that's the one you pick. After watching more video on Simmons, I feel like if you play him at PF, he can be a very good PF that uses his skill in the post and his first step to blow past any PF in the league.

What's with all these Ingram doesn't have a quick first step?

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2015/04/brandon-ingram.html

Pros
Ingram is an exceptional offensive talent with super long arms and a soft shooting touch. Can light it up from downtown or get to the rim with long fluid strides and deft ball handling. Finishes well in the paint despite his lack of strength.

Has unique length/shooting combination. Ingram does everything well on the basketball court but his shooting stroke is what makes him an elite level NBA prospect. With his length his shot is nearly un-guardable.

Has a really quick great first step and the ability to get to the rim in a hurry, with either hand. Is much improved handling the ball in the open court and will be a very dangerous run n gun player at the next level.

Has very active hands on defense and uses his wingspan well to disrupt the offense. Gets a lot of blocks, steals and deflection with his go-go-gadget arms.

As far as "fixable" is concerned, Sports Illustrated made a good point about Simmons. If he hasn't improved his jumper 5 years ago when it was deemed his biggest weakness, he's not going to improve it 5 years from now either. What you see in the last 4-5 years is what you'll see in the NBA based on his trajectory.

[12footrim]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on "fit" in the Sixers situation...we won TEN games last year. With a ten win team, you take the best available, especially if you believe it's a franchise altering player, and restructure/make trades to accommodate the new, incoming player. If the Sixers won 30-35 games last year or at least had their franchise caliber player identified, THEN I would agree that fit is important since you already have something in the making. However, that's not the case with this team and therefore there's no need to draft based on fit.

BUT, two of their best players Embid and Saric didn't even play last year. Brett Brown was on an ESPN podcast just last week talking about Simmions and Saric and basically said Saric was like a less athletic Simmions with his own shooting question marks that projected as a 4.

That's 3 centers and a 4 man basically with all your valuable assets. You can't just trade them and expect proper value when every team in the league knows you can't use them all and will low ball you. You'll never get what you should even trying to get rid of Noel, Embid or Okafor as it is.

[FreesFro]

I don't care about fit either. We've been a historically bad team the last few years and we are worried about fit? Too funny. If/when we are competing for a Championship in a few years a lot of these guys you like will not be here anyhow. That's how it goes.


Take the best player no matter what. Sam Hinkie didn't tear this all down to draft some skinny kid from Duke who may turn into a multiple All-Star. He did it to acquire a transcendent talent who someday will compete for MVP's like Ben Simmons.

I love Ingram as a prospect and if we landed the second pick I'd be ecstatic. But the thing is we landed what we've been waiting for, the #1 pick. Don't overhtink this.

[76ciology]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on "fit" in the Sixers situation...we won TEN games last year. With a ten win team, you take the best available, especially if you believe it's a franchise altering player, and restructure/make trades to accommodate the new, incoming player. If the Sixers won 30-35 games last year or at least had their franchise caliber player identified, THEN I would agree that fit is important since you already have something in the making. However, that's not the case with this team and therefore there's no need to draft based on fit.

All Colangelo should be doing now is figuring out who is the best franchise-caliber talent between Simmons and Ingram and make adjustments after that decision has been made. This decision should be finalized 2 weeks before the draft so that trades can be made prior to.

How about this then?

Ingram fits the way the NBA is evolving right now. Ingram's strengths like rim protection(at the wing) and 3pt is what the league heavily values right now.

My issue with Ingram is that although I think he'll eventually become a very good, make multiple all-star teams, and may even have more upside than Simmons, I think he's going to struggle in his first 2-3 years in the League due to his size. On the other hand, I think Simmons will come in and put up 18/10/5 on 50% shooting almost immediately. Also, Simmons is the type of player I can see free agents wanting to play with due to his passing and unselfishness while Ingram doesn't seem like the type of player that will attract free agents...kind of like how Carmelo and Harden don't attract free agents despite being top 10-15 NBA players.

Ingram is a plug and play, he suits playing with any type of player. With Simmons, he has strong traits that you would need certain type of player to compliment him. With that said, It's not certain to assume players will want to play with Simmons than Ingram.

[Negrodamus]

The "don't overthink this" crowd is funny to me. Simmons will have to do a complete overhaul of his shot, gain confidence in shots at the rim with his left hand, and increase motivation on defense all while we will have to restructure the entire team to make Ben Simmons work, all while there are rumblings that he wants to force his way to LA. All the while we are doing this because he has elite handles, flashy passes, and good at Randle-esque "bullyball" in the SEC.

If anything, overthinking is a necessity.

[Jack Bauer]

The "don't overthink this" crowd is funny to me. Simmons will have to do a complete overhaul of his shot, gain confidence in shots at the rim with his left hand, and increase motivation on defense all while we will have to restructure the entire team to make Ben Simmons work, all while there are rumblings that he wants to force his way to LA. All the while we are doing this because he has elite handles, flashy passes, and good at Randle-esque "bullyball" in the SEC.

If anything, overthinking is a necessity.

Exactly. The overthink crowd would've picked Okafor over Towns simply because Okafor had been the #1 prospect in 2015 for over 4 years since high school while Towns was a late bloomer in college. Trajectory matters, that's why Simmons like Okafor is no longer the consensus top pick he has been since high school.

[05PhillyAI]

The "don't overthink this" crowd is funny to me. Simmons will have to do a complete overhaul of his shot, gain confidence in shots at the rim with his left hand, and increase motivation on defense all while we will have to restructure the entire team to make Ben Simmons work, all while there are rumblings that he wants to force his way to LA. All the while we are doing this because he has elite handles, flashy passes, and good at Randle-esque "bullyball" in the SEC.

If anything, overthinking is a necessity.

Thank you...

[PhilasFinest]

If I'm the Sixers, I'm going to compare which one is more fixable. Simmons lack of a jump shot as a PF, or Ingram's non elite first step and lack of elite level ball handling. Whichever you think is more fixable and which player has the higher ceiling if those issues aren't fixed, that's the one you pick. After watching more video on Simmons, I feel like if you play him at PF, he can be a very good PF that uses his skill in the post and his first step to blow past any PF in the league.

What's with all these Ingram doesn't have a quick first step?

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2015/04/brandon-ingram.html

Pros
Ingram is an exceptional offensive talent with super long arms and a soft shooting touch. Can light it up from downtown or get to the rim with long fluid strides and deft ball handling. Finishes well in the paint despite his lack of strength.

Has unique length/shooting combination. Ingram does everything well on the basketball court but his shooting stroke is what makes him an elite level NBA prospect. With his length his shot is nearly un-guardable.

Has a really quick great first step and the ability to get to the rim in a hurry, with either hand. Is much improved handling the ball in the open court and will be a very dangerous run n gun player at the next level.

Has very active hands on defense and uses his wingspan well to disrupt the offense. Gets a lot of blocks, steals and deflection with his go-go-gadget arms.

As far as "fixable" is concerned, Sports Illustrated made a good point about Simmons. If he hasn't improved his jumper 5 years ago when it was deemed his biggest weakness, he's not going to improve it 5 years from now either. What you see in the last 4-5 years is what you'll see in the NBA based on his trajectory.

5 years ago Ben Simmons was 14 years old. Are you serious?

[cksdayoff]

Embiid and Ingram work better than Embiid and Simmons imo

[Kobblehead]

Ben Simmons will have to implement a mid-range jumper. That's it. He's a ready-made facilitating, rebounding, steal generating, slashing, finishing, fastbreak nightmare with a competitive fire.

The "don't-overthink-it-ers" actually can see the forest for the trees.

People building Ingram up as a mythical adversary to Simmons for this #1 selection are not operating under logical pretenses.

[Jack Bauer]

If I'm the Sixers, I'm going to compare which one is more fixable. Simmons lack of a jump shot as a PF, or Ingram's non elite first step and lack of elite level ball handling. Whichever you think is more fixable and which player has the higher ceiling if those issues aren't fixed, that's the one you pick. After watching more video on Simmons, I feel like if you play him at PF, he can be a very good PF that uses his skill in the post and his first step to blow past any PF in the league.

What's with all these Ingram doesn't have a quick first step?

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2015/04/brandon-ingram.html

Pros
Ingram is an exceptional offensive talent with super long arms and a soft shooting touch. Can light it up from downtown or get to the rim with long fluid strides and deft ball handling. Finishes well in the paint despite his lack of strength.

Has unique length/shooting combination. Ingram does everything well on the basketball court but his shooting stroke is what makes him an elite level NBA prospect. With his length his shot is nearly un-guardable.

Has a really quick great first step and the ability to get to the rim in a hurry, with either hand. Is much improved handling the ball in the open court and will be a very dangerous run n gun player at the next level.

Has very active hands on defense and uses his wingspan well to disrupt the offense. Gets a lot of blocks, steals and deflection with his go-go-gadget arms.

As far as "fixable" is concerned, Sports Illustrated made a good point about Simmons. If he hasn't improved his jumper 5 years ago when it was deemed his biggest weakness, he's not going to improve it 5 years from now either. What you see in the last 4-5 years is what you'll see in the NBA based on his trajectory.

5 years ago Ben Simmons was 14 years old. Are you serious?

So?

Easier to get better the younger you are than the older you get. Fact that he didn't get better year after year after year after year on his jumper, and people think that all of a sudden he'll be much better 5 years from now? LOL.

[Ericb5]

The "don't overthink this" crowd is funny to me. Simmons will have to do a complete overhaul of his shot, gain confidence in shots at the rim with his left hand, and increase motivation on defense all while we will have to restructure the entire team to make Ben Simmons work, all while there are rumblings that he wants to force his way to LA. All the while we are doing this because he has elite handles, flashy passes, and good at Randle-esque "bullyball" in the SEC.

If anything, overthinking is a necessity.

Exactly. The overthink crowd would've picked Okafor over Towns simply because Okafor had been the #1 prospect in 2015 for over 4 years since high school while Towns was a late bloomer in college. Trajectory matters, that's why Simmons like Okafor is no longer the consensus top pick he has been since high school.

Nobody would have picked Okafor over Towns.

The point is that Simmons is more talented. Period. That is what is meant by no over thinking it.

He has a lot to improve on, as all 19 year olds do, but he is going to be a superstar in the NBA.

I don't know how ANYONE can call his game "bully ball", unless you say that he is being a bully by just being better than anyone and abusing them repeatedly.

[Kobblehead]

Exactly. The overthink crowd would've picked Okafor over Towns simply because Okafor had been the #1 prospect in 2015 for over 4 years since high school while Towns was a late bloomer in college. Trajectory matters, that's why Simmons like Okafor is no longer the consensus top pick he has been since high school.

Can you stop evoking Towns in this off-base analogy you keep trying to make?

Towns was a force of nature during his freshman season at Kentucky. Ingram underwhelmed.

[Jack Bauer]

Exactly. The overthink crowd would've picked Okafor over Towns simply because Okafor had been the #1 prospect in 2015 for over 4 years since high school while Towns was a late bloomer in college. Trajectory matters, that's why Simmons like Okafor is no longer the consensus top pick he has been since high school.

Can you stop evoking Towns in this off-base analogy you keep trying to make?

Towns was a force of nature during his freshman season at Kentucky. Ingram underwhelmed.

Tell that to SI author then.

They compared Simmons/Ingram to Okafor/Towns based on trajectory.

[sixers23]

What's with all these Ingram doesn't have a quick first step?

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2015/04/brandon-ingram.html



As far as "fixable" is concerned, Sports Illustrated made a good point about Simmons. If he hasn't improved his jumper 5 years ago when it was deemed his biggest weakness, he's not going to improve it 5 years from now either. What you see in the last 4-5 years is what you'll see in the NBA based on his trajectory.

5 years ago Ben Simmons was 14 years old. Are you serious?

So?

Easier to get better the younger you are than the older you get. Fact that he didn't get better year after year after year after year on his jumper, and people think that all of a sudden he'll be much better 5 years from now? LOL.

right bc nobody has ever improved their jumper once getting to the nba right?

[phiphan]

BPM in college:

KAT -- 17.3
Simmons -- 11.6
Okafor -- 10.9
Ingram -- 7.5