Where is Jahlil Okafor?

[PhilasFinest]

Yes he's a PF built for dominating wimpy stretch 4's like Ersan and Dario that proliferate NBA rosters these days.

Dominating wimpy stretch 4's on offense and letting them shoot wide open shots on defense.

Makes a little more sense now.

Okafor defended Kevin Love well...

Did he? Which game?....the one where he dropped 20-11 or the other where he dropped 25-11?

[Unbreakable99]

What is it about your personality that you need to keep making the same point over and over again? I mean, you are like a scorned woman trying to take a pound of flesh in an argument.

You are just looking for things to use to bait people into a fight. Ooh, I found another thing that supports my claim. I'm going to post it on a message board and see who I can get to fight with me.

How about we just stop belaboring the same points over and over. You aren't convincing anyone of anything, and you are just pursuing high fives from people that you agree with.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some of that is new information (the fact that we're a near-playoff team without him).

Regardless, if Prokafors are going to keep posting their arguments for him (as SelfishPlayer and thenbaman have done on the previous page), it's certainly reasonable for the opposite side of the debate to present their counterarguments.

Posts like yours are worse than the posts you are complaining about. You (not just you specifically) freak out about the anti-Okafor people posting stats and evidence, claiming that they are making the same points over and over again and aren't convincing anyone. However, the same point can be made for the Prokafors that are posting the same repeated arguments, only it's even worse because it's frequently without data. Yet your post (and the post from the guy in the game thread last night) target only posters on one side of the debate.

I believe that Okafor doesn't work with Embiid, and should be traded, so I basically agree with him. The problem is that he is argumentative as opposed to being an advocate of his position.

He is one of the many argumentative people on this board that just go around and around in circles making the same points trying to bait people into fights for his personal amusement.

I honestly can't think of any reason other than trying to pick a fight to go grab something from somewhere else and post it again, to say the game thing again.

He isn't trying to convince the other side. His statement of something like "what are the prokafors going to say" is a dead give away that all he wants to do is get high fives from his side of the argument. He is trying to light a fire, so he can bask in the glow.

He is literally talking to the people that agree with him, while mocking people that don't. That is trolling.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I post information about how dominant Embiid is. Why aren't you attacking me for the info when I post positive information that's shows how much of an impact Embiid makes? I post what I see and what things that backup my points.

[TeamHigh]

I believe that Okafor doesn't work with Embiid, and should be traded, so I basically agree with him. The problem is that he is argumentative as opposed to being an advocate of his position.

He is one of the many argumentative people on this board that just go around and around in circles making the same points trying to bait people into fights for his personal amusement.

I honestly can't think of any reason other than trying to pick a fight to go grab something from somewhere else and post it again, to say the game thing again.

He isn't trying to convince the other side. His statement of something like "what are the prokafors going to say" is a dead give away that all he wants to do is get high fives from his side of the argument. He is trying to light a fire, so he can bask in the glow.

He is literally talking to the people that agree with him, while mocking people that don't. That is trolling.

So when a Prokafor guy repeats the same issues over and over again without a shred of evidence, where are you calling them out?

What else is the point of a discussion forum than to post relevant data to discuss? It's a new statistic updated through the last few games that Okafor has played. If there were improvement it would have been noted. If it's the same narrative it's because it's ongoing and worth discussing. Just a month ago, there were plenty of people that said you needed to play Embiid and Okafor together and give it time. Now new evidence has gotten many of them to change their minds. That's the point of discussion.

You may want to act like the person that's being rational, but your sensitivity over this subject is what's really coming across as trolling. There's no discussion to be had if you don't let people post their opinions (however wrong they are). I'm not sure anything SelfishPlayer has said in this thread agrees with reality (he touted that he was 'right' that Okafor could play PF with Embiid after one decent stretch in a single game—with Embiid playing PF, no less), but if he wants to get on his soapbox and spout his opinion, that's his prerogative.

Quit trying to silence discussion. You did this in the other thread about the Embiid/Okafor pairing about how people were 'bashing' Okafor and never replied when I set you straight there. And the fact that you're doing this with such an obvious bias towards one side of the argument suggests that, while you may claim to "agree" with it, you're agreeing through gritted teeth.

[SelfishPlayer]

Dominating wimpy stretch 4's on offense and letting them shoot wide open shots on defense.

Makes a little more sense now.

Okafor defended Kevin Love well...

Did he? Which game?....the one where he dropped 20-11 or the other where he dropped 25-11?

That's a ham-fisted way of looking at it right there, in the game where he defended love well Love scored points on switches and definitely made a 3 point shot while TJ McConell was guarding him.

[rzzzzz]

handy chart for bigs on rim protection, based on % and blocks. maybe you saw it on the general board.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1503004

the cool thing is that Embiid stands out as an outlier in the most dominant way. OK4 and Holmes not so much, but nothing like the numbers the folks hoping to get nothing for him love to toss out. (middle of the pack, actually.)

"You say 3, I say 4. You say 5, I say 6. I got plenty numbers.": Chico Marx

[TTP]

handy chart for bigs on rim protection, based on % and blocks. maybe you saw it on the general board.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1503004

the cool thing is that Embiid stands out as an outlier in the most dominant way. OK4 and Holmes not so much, but nothing like the numbers the folks hoping to get nothing for him love to toss out. (middle of the pack, actually.)

"You say 3, I say 4. You say 5, I say 6. I got plenty numbers.": Chico Marx

That chart has nothing to do with Okafor's pick and roll defense or rotations - his primary defensive problems.

[SelfishPlayer]

handy chart for bigs on rim protection, based on % and blocks. maybe you saw it on the general board.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1503004

the cool thing is that Embiid stands out as an outlier in the most dominant way. OK4 and Holmes not so much, but nothing like the numbers the folks hoping to get nothing for him love to toss out. (middle of the pack, actually.)

"You say 3, I say 4. You say 5, I say 6. I got plenty numbers.": Chico Marx

That chart clearly illustrates what I have known. Ersan and Dario are amongst the absolute worst in the entire NBA and it takes an Embiid level defender to make their defense at the PF position acceptable. I never considered that Embiid is the absolute BEST! Whenever Okafor replaces Embiid at center everything falls apart defensively not because Okafor is amongst the worst in the league, but because Dario and Ersan are.

What else do I already know that perhaps a chart or advanced stats could prove? That Embiid at PF and Okafor at center is playing them both out of position yet the idiot Brett Brown elected to do that. What else do I know? Ersan would be a better player at SF with Okafor at PF and Embiid at center than he can ever be at PF with either Embiid or Okafor at center.

That chart also shows that Richaun Holmes should be playing more than Dario at this point. I really do not think that Ersan and Dario should be competing for so many PF minutes. The bulk of their minutes should be at SF with Covington at SG. Ersan and Dario are too soft for the PF position, but tough for the SF position.

This should be the normal rotation:
C Embiid, Noel
PF Okafor, Holmes
SF Ersan, Dario
SG Covington, TLC, Henderson
PG TJ, Stauskas, Sergio

[FKAri]

handy chart for bigs on rim protection, based on % and blocks. maybe you saw it on the general board.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1503004

the cool thing is that Embiid stands out as an outlier in the most dominant way. OK4 and Holmes not so much, but nothing like the numbers the folks hoping to get nothing for him love to toss out. (middle of the pack, actually.)

"You say 3, I say 4. You say 5, I say 6. I got plenty numbers.": Chico Marx

This one is newer. Gobert seems to have surpassed Embiid on FG% at the rim now. The gap between all these guys is tiny. It will fluctuate all year.




btw don't KP and Embiid look good side by side?

[SelfishPlayer]

btw don't KP and Embiid look good side by side?

The one you posted is inferior to the initial one. They are not measuring the same things.

[FKAri]

btw don't KP and Embiid look good side by side?

The one you posted is inferior to the initial one. They are not measuring the same things.

Both graphs share an axis and in one Embiid/Hibbert are leading and in the other Gobert is leading. The blk/48 thing I don't put too much weight into anyway since it is an extrapolation.

[SelfishPlayer]

The blk/48 thing I don't put too much weight into anyway

Why should you? It doesn't exist on either chart...

[spikeslovechild]

Wait you think Okafor is a pf.

Yes he's a PF built for dominating wimpy stretch 4's like Ersan and Dario that proliferate NBA rosters these days.

Dominating wimpy stretch 4's on offense and letting them shoot wide open shots on defense.

Makes a little more sense now.

Originally the thought process was you would play him with Noel and make him the focal point of the offense. Now with Embiid that thought process doesn't work.

We don't need anyone to dominate wimpy stretch 4's we have Embiid. Having him stand around watch is a bad use of his minutes. Of course if Okafor could play defense that would be moot but since he can't he basically has to be fed the ball on offense to have value as a player.

The problem is that really hasn't happened this year even when used as a backup he's getting 4,5,6 shots a game. That just isn't enough offense to make up for what he gives up on the other end even with improved defense.

[SelfishPlayer]

Yes he's a PF built for dominating wimpy stretch 4's like Ersan and Dario that proliferate NBA rosters these days.

Dominating wimpy stretch 4's on offense and letting them shoot wide open shots on defense.

Makes a little more sense now.

Originally the thought process was you would play him with Noel and make him the focal point of the offense. Now with Embiid that thought process doesn't work.

We don't need anyone to dominate wimpy stretch 4's we have Embiid. Having him stand around watch is a bad use of his minutes. Of course if Okafor could play defense that would be moot but since he can't he basically has to be fed the ball on offense to have value as a player.

The problem is that really hasn't happened this year even when used as a backup he's getting 4,5,6 shots a game. That just isn't enough offense to make up for what he gives up on the other end even with improved defense.

You are willing to make critical decisions on a talent like Okafor based upon his history playing with the garbage perimeter players the Sixers have trotted out the last two seasons. That's like an NFL team making a decision on their former highly drafted WR after two seasons because he isn't playing great, yet they do not have a true starting QB. The QB they have is horrible and has no arm strength so this WR never is even asked to run deep routes. He's just a dink and dunk guy having to create his own big plays off of 10 yard passes and less. The guards for the Sixers are so horrific that there are aspects of the game of basketball that Okafor and Noel can never utilize as big men. We've seen how well Noel played with a creative passer with speed like Ish Smith. We have yet to see what either can do with a guard that can do that and drain 3's. Okafor has shown that he can create his own offense, Embiid the same, so how good can they be when they are finally put on the floor with a true NBA perimeter scoring threat that can also create for them?

[TeamHigh]

How does "garbage perimeter player" apply here when Okafor actually makes them perform WORSE?

[spikeslovechild]

Well none of them can make an entry pass which is a big part of the problem. Not sure what direction this team wants to go in. We don't want to seem to go inside-outside. We throw the ball around the perimeter. Most nights Okafor sits in the post and never touches the basketball.

I'm disappointed in his play but it's not just his fault. However, whatever the reason he hasn't been helping the team this season. Longterm Brown and Colengalo need to decide how they want the team to play moving forward because having Okafor run up and down the court isn't going to work. If he enters the game he needs to be used or traded.

[youngcrev]

Of the 56 centers that play at least 15 MPG, Jah ranks dead last in rebound chance % (rebounds/rebound chances) and adjusted rebound chance % (factors in deferred rebounds).

http://stats.nba.com/players/rebounding/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=MIN*GE*15&sort=REB_CHANCE_PCT_ADJ&dir=-1

[LloydFree]

Of the 56 centers that play at least 15 MPG, Jah ranks dead last in rebound chance % (rebounds/rebound chances) and adjusted rebound chance % (factors in deferred rebounds).

http://stats.nba.com/players/rebounding/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=MIN*GE*15&sort=REB_CHANCE_PCT_ADJ&dir=-1

Easily explained... Someone posted the theory that Okafor may be a very good rebounder, but he doesn't get the numbers because he does his job of boxing out, but let's his teammates steal his Rebounds... See he's very unselfish that way...

[youngcrev]

Of the 56 centers that play at least 15 MPG, Jah ranks dead last in rebound chance % (rebounds/rebound chances) and adjusted rebound chance % (factors in deferred rebounds).

http://stats.nba.com/players/rebounding/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=MIN*GE*15&sort=REB_CHANCE_PCT_ADJ&dir=-1

Easily explained... Someone posted the theory that Okafor may be a very good rebounder, but he doesn't get the numbers because he does his job of boxing out, but let's his teammates steal his Rebounds... See he's very unselfish that way...

Yeah...

Let's find out!

NBAWOWY...
Jah on the floor, the Sixers grab 45.6% of TRB
Jah off the floor, the Sixers grab 50.2% of TRB

hmm...

Not sure where they would point to next.

[LloydFree]

Of the 56 centers that play at least 15 MPG, Jah ranks dead last in rebound chance % (rebounds/rebound chances) and adjusted rebound chance % (factors in deferred rebounds).

http://stats.nba.com/players/rebounding/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=MIN*GE*15&sort=REB_CHANCE_PCT_ADJ&dir=-1

Easily explained... Someone posted the theory that Okafor may be a very good rebounder, but he doesn't get the numbers because he does his job of boxing out, but let's his teammates steal his Rebounds... See he's very unselfish that way...

Yeah...

Let's find out!

NBAWOWY...
Jah on the floor, the Sixers grab 45.6% of TRB
Jah off the floor, the Sixers grab 50.2% of TRB

hmm...

Not sure where they would point to next.

See what had happened there.. it's the guards fault.

[SelfishPlayer]