SixerFan1976 Offseason Thread (Update Pg 73)

Mik317 · Post #1241 » by **Mik317** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:07 pm

I agree that going young doesn't mean it will work but we have tried adding vets to the mix and it hasn't worked.

Al Jeff would be in line of the safe moves we normally make.( Let me get this out the way, I wouldn't be mad if we got him tho...as I thought he was alot older than he is..lol...**** Pau tho). So you have to ask yourself, does adding Al and lets say Ross make us better? It probably does and with expected improvement from Jrue and Turner, we could be pretty good. But how good? It's about the ceiling that makes me want to go in another direction. Unless Ross, Jrue or Turner take a giant leap, we would cap out at second round w/ some ECF apperences for maybe two years. Then we would be stuck where the Hawks is. We would probably overpay someone and be in the same ****.

Now going young doesn't mean we would be better either.. But it gives us the best chance at a star. We know what Al Jeff is. Let's say we find a star in the draft? The upside is higher. If it ends up just being mediocre then fine, it wouldn't be any worse than the alternative choice.

The Best possible outcome to Al jeff is a ECF spot, the worst is a yearly first round exit or barely missing the playoffs. The go young approach best outcome is that we find a star and our window is larger. The worst is that we hit the lottery...which isn't that bad.

No one likes to take steps backwards. I get that and I sort of agree...I enjoyed this season immensely. But at this point we would just be putting off the inevitable. I also doubt we will see as many stars moving anymore either. It;s the reason we had a lockout. And the newer stars are more humble. Also if LeBron and Friends lose again..it's not even gonna look like something to do. The Celtics only have one chip.

cksdayoff · Post #1242 » by **cksdayoff** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:16 pm

et and jrue shouldve started all of last season, get into the top 5 and draft a guy like enes kanter or biyombo.

suck again this year and draft top 5 again and hope for a guy like a thomas robinson or whomever.

et and jrue would've been much further along in development while being able to draft star potential players.

Sixerlover · Post #1243 » by **Sixerlover** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:31 pm

cksdayoff wrote:et and jrue shouldve started all of last season, get into the top 5 and draft a guy like enes kanter or biyombo.

suck again this year and draft top 5 again and hope for a guy like a thomas robinson or whomever.

et and jrue would've been much further along in development while being able to draft star potential players.

Drafting the star potential players along the way I get, that's cool. But the Wizards have been horrid since Wall was drafted. 2 top 10 picks since then, has he gotten much better? Or Tyreke and the Kings? DeMar Derozan has actually gotten worse the last few years and they haven't been good.

The consensus is that going young playing guys 35+ mpg will directly correlate to them improving, but that's not always the case. I guess it depends on the player a lot, but the success of the team plays an important role as well. If you spend your first 3 seasons on lottery teams, your mentality is surely going to be different than a guy like James Harden, or Derrick Rose whose teams became competitive the year they got there. I personally think getting within 5 good minutes of the Eastern conference finals helped Jrue more than being on the Wizards could've.

SJSF · Post #1244 » by **SJSF** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:02 pm

Do the Jrue wrote:It sucks Lavoy Allen can't be two inches taller...he could be our Perkins and we wouldn't have to worry about atleast one of our starting front court spots. Right now his career is probably going to be in a Brandon Bass super-sub type of role. Hopefully Vucevic can develop into a solid starter.

For a 2nd rounder i am good with that. He is a solid backup big man.

Skates · Post #1245 » by **Skates** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:20 pm

The most important aspect of this summer is always the most important one for building a championship contender - who will be the new GM/President and how will they and Collins share power.

All of the possible ways to build a contender listed by posters above are valid ways, but only if your team has the right management in place. Sure Durant was a no brainer as the second pick, but Westbrook, Harden and especially Ibaka could easily have been passed up for lesser players. Presti didn't miss on those and added a lot more good role players around them.

Jerry West made sure to acquire Kobe after he slipped out of the top ten, the Mavs didn't grab Dirk in the top five, Pierce could have been a Sixer, so forth and so on. Even the year LBJ, Bosh, Melo and Wade came out, Dumars screwed up and took Darko. Cap space, high draft picks, young assets, ready to trade vets in their prime...none of it matters unless you ahve the right people pulling the trigger, and if you have the right people making those decisions, they will find a way to get it done.

Replacing Thorn will be the decision that molds this franchise for the next 5 years at least.

Do the Jrue · Post #1246 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:29 pm

Oh yeah, I love what Lavoy brings to the table. I just wish we already had a legit starting center or power forward already on the roster that we could count on. At this point I would only trust starting Lavoy or Vuc if they were playing next to a Dwight, Pau or some other elite front court player, not another young guy like Drummond.

Tension · Post #1247 » by **Tension** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:51 pm

I think we all have some type of feeling that Jrue/ET can develop into all star calibur players with ET being more likely due to his competitive drive. Otherwise I'm sure any team would accept a Jrue/ET/Iggy trade for an unhappy superstar. We play with a balanced offense and we don't even have all the pieces in terms of player personnel skillsets. For example, I hear people complaining that Sully won't fit here because he won't be able to run with us...well we are god awful in the half court and having someone to throw it to in the low block will improve us offensively instead of putting up an 8 pt quarter every game. I'm pretty sure the entire NBA knows that the Sixers are an up and coming team and that should be enticing enough for good players to come. Someone said that we don't develop talent well but we are under just ONE year of new management and 2 years with a great coaching personnel. We have a top 3 defense without an interior presence and one of the best teams at taking care of the ball as a fast break offense. I'd say that's damn good development, it's just up to the players to get better at consistently hitting shots and rounding out the rest of their game and that's with our team BARELY practicing this season.

I don't think it's possible we'll get a top 5 pick because I see the Kings grabbing Drummond, but still guys in the 6-10 range still have good upside guys. And if we do get Drummond, THEN we can sign Al Jeff next season to balance offense/defense of Al Jeff and Drummond.

Sixerlover I'd like to think our coaching personnel, management, ownership etc heavily outweigh the Wiz, Raps, and Kings. And hell, the Kings are crazy talented and young they just need a good coach and to not miss on this upcoming pick.

We also have been drafting very well post-Billy King and I trust our management to get the right guys.

Do the Jrue · Post #1248 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:02 pm

A frontcourt of Al Jefferson and Drummond could be really, really good...but the only way we would be able to get either of them is to trade Iguodala, and we can't do that two times.

If we could would you guys do a trade of Turner, Thad and #15 for Tyreke Evans and the #5? Tyreke is pretty much a way better, way more aggressive version of Turner and then were basically trading Thad and the #15 for Drummond. So were left with Jrue-Tyreke-Iguodala-Drummond and then still have Iggy as a trading piece if we still wanna move him for a shooter or power forward.

Chamberlainship · Post #1249 » by **Chamberlainship** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:08 pm

The Sixer Fixer wrote:
Sixerlover wrote: Being in the middle of the pack is truly the worst place to be . . . .

I went to a Bobcats/Nets game in Newark last year. (That's a nice stadium, btw.)

Do the Jrue · Post #1250 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:31 pm

Chamberlainship wrote:
The Sixer Fixer wrote:
Sixerlover wrote: Being in the middle of the pack is truly the worst place to be . . . .

I went to a Bobcats/Nets game in Newark last year. (That's a nice stadium, btw.)

..........oh?

SJSF · Post #1251 » by **SJSF** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:13 pm

cksdayoff wrote:et and jrue shouldve started all of last season, get into the top 5 and draft a guy like enes kanter or biyombo.

suck again this year and draft top 5 again and hope for a guy like a thomas robinson or whomever.

et and jrue would've been much further along in development while being able to draft star potential players.

And that is is how you are suppose to do it. But if you have teams like the Sixers where the fans won't come out and watch a young bad team, management gets desperate and signs average palyers to big contracts. And then we get salary capped out and draft at 15 all the time. U have to get bad to get great. U can't be good and get great. The draft is where you get great players. UNless you get lucky with a FA or a trade. The Sixers this year though may be able to do it through FA and a trade.

P2K · Post #1252 » by **P2K** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:21 pm

Championship teams over the years have been started by teams that drafted their superstars usually with top picks. Any other way is much harder to pull off (ala Boston recently and Miami).

Magic. Bird. Isiah. Jordan. Olajuwon. Robinson. Duncan. I could go on, of course. How about you get those top draft picks is whatever. More time than not, it's by being terrible. I know that sucks, but Sixers fans will completely understand being fans of a bad team. As long as we know what the direction of the team is.

Now, you can say that the upcoming draft won't have great talent and so on. So what! Maybe you get lucky. That is the greatness of having a top 5-10 pick. I know some are afraid of becoming the Clippers, but they had plenty of talent and had no idea how to utilize it. They finally did so this past offseason.

This is the NBA. I've said it a few times now, but it is plenty true. You either have to be elite or be awful. Being in between gets you nowhere. This Sixers franchise has to leave its pride at the door and realize that it needs to take a few steps back in order to move many steps forward. Yeah, they completely lucked into a #2 overall pick a couple years ago. It didn't work out like we all hoped. But that doesn't mean the Sixers should shy away from that.

This process should have started as soon as Iverson was traded.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1253 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:27 pm

I agree that it should have started as soon as AI was traded. At one point we were right at the front lines for Oden/Durant that year. Andre Miller went into beast mode and that was that. I really believe that year set us way back in terms of getting an elite player. Of course....we would have lucked out and got the number 1 pick...Drafted Oden...and well......he would have been injured.

Do the Jrue · Post #1254 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:22 pm

We might have had this superstar player were talking about if we drafted Cousins over Turner like we should have in the first place. We have nobody like him to build around and were still searching for a PF. Hell...we should have atleast took Favors. Like somebody else said our riskier picks are the ones that have worked out while the "safe" ones have been as meh as they get. This year the best guys we can take a chance on at 15 as far as potential goes would probably be Perry Jones, Moe Harkless and Austin Rivers.

Kobblehead · Post #1255 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:35 pm

Do the Jrue wrote:We might have had this superstar player were talking about if we drafted Cousins over Turner like we should have in the first place. We have nobody like him to build around and were still searching for a PF. Hell...we should have atleast took Favors. Like somebody else said our riskier picks are the ones that have worked out while the "safe" ones have been as meh as they get. This year the best guys we can take a chance on at 15 as far as potential goes would probably be Perry Jones, Moe Harkless and Austin Rivers.

Oh hell no. If you're going to have buyers remorse over drafting Evan Turner, do not let it be because of what DeMarcus Cousins is doing. He's a fat, disruptive pig that tries to get his numbers above all else. Derrick Favors has shown flashes of what he can do, but he doesn't do anything consistently yet either. Of the three, I still think Evan Turner is far and away the most valuable towards a winning team. Once he gets his jumpshot to resemble an NBA basketball player, he's going to be fine.

Do the Jrue · Post #1256 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:04 pm

When the hell is Turner going to have this shot that resembles an actual NBA player? And grow arms that are a normal length for someone his size? I will say that he's the type of player on a winning team, but he has to come out like a whole new player next year to prove he was worth us trading away our best all around player so he could fit in better (if we do trade Iggy). If he comes out like I think he can I think he should average something like 16 7 and 4.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1257 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:11 pm

I'm sticking with Turner as the best pick in that draft until proven otherwise. The only player I might have picked over would have been Derrick Favors.

Eyeamok · Post #1258 » by **Eyeamok** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:17 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:I agree that it should have started as soon as AI was traded. At one point we were right at the front lines for Oden/Durant that year. Andre Miller went into beast mode and that was that. I really believe that year set us way back in terms of getting an elite player. Of course....we would have lucked out and got the number 1 pick...Drafted Oden...and well......he would have been injured.

Yep and we still would have been bad enough to get a top 5 player the following year.

Wilfried · Post #1259 » by **Wilfried** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:19 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Do the Jrue wrote:Of the three, I still think Evan Turner is far and away the most valuable towards a winning team. Once he gets his jumpshot to resemble an NBA basketball player, he's going to be fine.

And what if this will never happen?
People talk about him as a 19-year prospect, but at his age, there's really not so much room for improvement anymore.

It's safe to say George, Cousins, Monroe and probably Favors will have far better careers than Turner.
Only the 'hopers' need to wake up.

Eyeamok · Post #1260 » by **Eyeamok** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:37 pm

I am in the camp that we need to get picks and find someone we can build around. Turner may not be our superstar, he might turn out to be that 6th guy off the bench that can do it all and all teams have a hard time dealing with. I think Holiday is only going to get better too. Either way I say if we have the opportunity to trade our best player for a movement up in the top of this draft where we see a player with potential (star potential) we do it.

Al Jefferson is nice, pau is nice. But not for this team at this stage in the game if we can't snag a top flight free agent this season (deron ) or get Howard in a sign and trade. Then save the cap space and let our draft pick and the rest of the young team go out and play and learn. The FO should be honest with the fan base and tell them what they are doing. And go balls out to make it happen.

We got lucky in a lot of ways.
Our young guys got a lot of valuable playoff experience.
Iggy's trade value has to be higher than it has ever been.
We are gong to have some serious cap space.
We are getting rid of our GM so we can be more aggressive.
We have ownership that actually cares about winning.
This draft appears to be pretty deep in the areas that we need help
And we have options more options than I remember this team having in a long while.
This could be the start of something wonderful if the team is guided in the right direction and doing patchwork trading, Iggy for a proven vet. Is not the right direction.

One more thing I love Iggy always have. And I would be sad to see him go. But its time to trade him and head in a new direction.