Where is Nerlens?

[TTP]

Do not want Ross, especially given that he's going to be priced unreasonably high because he's shooting at an unsustainable clip

Push hard for a deal around Powell and Wright instead. Both are buried there.

[spikeslovechild]

Do not want Ross, especially given that he's going to be priced unreasonably high because he's shooting at an unsustainable clip

Push hard for a deal around Powell and Wright instead. Both are buried there.

They r buried for a reason.

[TTP]

Do not want Ross, especially given that he's going to be priced unreasonably high because he's shooting at an unsustainable clip

Push hard for a deal around Powell and Wright instead. Both are buried there.

They r buried for a reason.

Yeah, they're behind two All Stars and one of the best backups in the league.

[spikeslovechild]

Do not want Ross, especially given that he's going to be priced unreasonably high because he's shooting at an unsustainable clip

Push hard for a deal around Powell and Wright instead. Both are buried there.

They r buried for a reason.

Yeah, they're behind two All Stars and one of the best backups in the league.

Fred VanVleet is buried and has a 27.0 PER why not add him to the list?

[TTP]

They r buried for a reason.

Yeah, they're behind two All Stars and one of the best backups in the league.

Fred VanVleet is buried and has a 27.0 PER why not add him to the list?

VanVleet has played 13 minutes. Lol PER too. I liked him as a second round flier prospect. Analytic models projected him fairly well.

Wright was a good prospect that I would have liked us to trade up to draft last season. Projects as a great defender and given his college FT rate, I'm optimistic that he can improve his jumper. Great steal rate. Great rebounding rate. Great at getting to the FT line. Good assist to turnover. Analytics liked him a lot as a prospect. Had solid production in his small rookie sample.

Powell was pretty excellent as a rookie last year and has been good in his minutes again this year. He also fits our team needs very well.

Also it's no coincidence that Masai ends up with a lot of guys I like - guys that analytic models favor. It's not surprising that they're probably the deepest team in the NBA.

[LloydFree]

Yeah, they're behind two All Stars and one of the best backups in the league.

Fred VanVleet is buried and has a 27.0 PER why not add him to the list?

VanVleet has played 13 minutes. Lol PER too. I liked him as a second round flier prospect. Analytic models projected him fairly well.

Wright was a good prospect that I would have liked us to trade up to draft last season. Projects as a great defender and given his college FT rate, I'm optimistic that he can improve his jumper. Great steal rate. Great rebounding rate. Great at getting to the FT line. Good assist to turnover. Analytics liked him a lot as a prospect. Had solid production in his small rookie sample.

Powell was pretty excellent as a rookie last year and has been good in his minutes again this year. He also fits our team needs very well.

Also it's no coincidence that Masai ends up with a lot of guys I like - guys that analytic models favor. It's not surprising that they're probably the deepest team in the NBA.

Masai is consistently one of the best at the Draft.

[PhilasFinest]

While none are sexy names, Id probably take some combination of Ross,Powell,Wright. All 3 could end up being decent contributors and upgrades considering the lack of talent on our roster along the perimeter.

Ross can let it fly and shoot the ball...Is athletic and could excel with a change of scenery, playing uptempo and in transition. If he could stay dialed in on defense and continue to get his hands on the ball generating steals...he could be a nice piece and upgrade on the perimeter.

Powell is pretty solid and was a steal in the 2nd....sucks we didn't pick him. defends, improving shot and athletic in the open floor.

Wright I have always liked for some reason. He's a big PG and has the tools to be a really good defender...considering TJ and Sergio are turnstiles, I would be intrigued to watch someone who might be able to defend his position.

Sadly, at this point....this is the types of returns we can likely expect for Noel. We stunted his development, created a log jam at the position (lowering our leverage) and now he is in his final year, disgruntled and coming off an injury.

[spikeslovechild]

Fred VanVleet is buried and has a 27.0 PER why not add him to the list?

VanVleet has played 13 minutes. Lol PER too. I liked him as a second round flier prospect. Analytic models projected him fairly well.

Wright was a good prospect that I would have liked us to trade up to draft last season. Projects as a great defender and given his college FT rate, I'm optimistic that he can improve his jumper. Great steal rate. Great rebounding rate. Great at getting to the FT line. Good assist to turnover. Analytics liked him a lot as a prospect. Had solid production in his small rookie sample.

Powell was pretty excellent as a rookie last year and has been good in his minutes again this year. He also fits our team needs very well.

Also it's no coincidence that Masai ends up with a lot of guys I like - guys that analytic models favor. It's not surprising that they're probably the deepest team in the NBA.

Masai is consistently one of the best at the Draft.

He is such a great drafter that none of his picks play. Yeah, but hey I get it the grass is always greener with you folks.

[TTP]

VanVleet has played 13 minutes. Lol PER too. I liked him as a second round flier prospect. Analytic models projected him fairly well.

Wright was a good prospect that I would have liked us to trade up to draft last season. Projects as a great defender and given his college FT rate, I'm optimistic that he can improve his jumper. Great steal rate. Great rebounding rate. Great at getting to the FT line. Good assist to turnover. Analytics liked him a lot as a prospect. Had solid production in his small rookie sample.

Powell was pretty excellent as a rookie last year and has been good in his minutes again this year. He also fits our team needs very well.

Also it's no coincidence that Masai ends up with a lot of guys I like - guys that analytic models favor. It's not surprising that they're probably the deepest team in the NBA.

Masai is consistently one of the best at the Draft.

He is such a great drafter that none of his picks play. Yeah, but hey I get it the grass is always greener with you folks.

You're being ridiculous and your argument is so weak and not even factually correct. Their 27th overall pick, Siakam, has started every game for them this year. He has the second most starts of anyone in the 2016 class (one behind Sabonis because the Thunder have played one more game) despite being an end of first round pick on a high end playoff team. How about analyzing the players individually rather than making such garbage general claims?

Powell played 725 minutes in the regular season last year and 206 minutes in the playoffs. They have the best depth in the league - it's no shame that their young guys are buried. Wright and Powell are stuck behind Lowry and DeRozan.

Also, the better you are at drafting, the harder it's going to be to find playing time for everyone because you're going to have less roster turnover (fewer players you are fine with just giving up on and cutting).

[LloydFree]

Masai is consistently one of the best at the Draft.

He is such a great drafter that none of his picks play. Yeah, but hey I get it the grass is always greener with you folks.

You're being ridiculous and your argument is so weak and not even factually correct. Their 27th overall pick, Siakam, has started every game for them this year. He has the second most starts of anyone in the 2016 class (one behind Sabonis because the Thunder have played one more game) despite being an end of first round pick on a high end playoff team. How about analyzing the players individually rather than making such garbage general claims?

Powell played 725 minutes in the regular season last year and 206 minutes in the playoffs. They have the best depth in the league - it's no shame that their young guys are buried. Wright and Powell are stuck behind Lowry and DeRozan.

Also, the better you are at drafting, the harder it's going to be to find playing time for everyone because you're going to have less roster turnover (fewer players you are fine with just giving up on and cutting).

You're better than me. I don't have the patience for nonsense.

[spikeslovechild]

Masai is consistently one of the best at the Draft.

He is such a great drafter that none of his picks play. Yeah, but hey I get it the grass is always greener with you folks.

You're being ridiculous and your argument is so weak and not even factually correct. Their 27th overall pick, Siakam, has started every game for them this year. He has the second most starts of anyone in the 2016 class (one behind Sabonis because the Thunder have played one more game) despite being an end of first round pick on a high end playoff team. How about analyzing the players individually rather than making such garbage general claims?

Powell played 725 minutes in the regular season last year and 206 minutes in the playoffs. They have the best depth in the league - it's no shame that their young guys are buried. Wright and Powell are stuck behind Lowry and DeRozan.

Also, the better you are at drafting, the harder it's going to be to find playing time for everyone because you're going to have less roster turnover (fewer players you are fine with just giving up on and cutting).

It's hard to evaluate and analyze a player who doesn't play because well there is nothing to analyze except the fact they are not playing.

But lets just go through the list of first round picks off the top of my memory. Bruno, Skiakam (honestly forgot him), Poeltl, and wright. You say Skiakam is starting every game but you are not taking your own advice. How has he played? We know the reasons why he is starting they had garbage at the position before in Scola. Signed Jared Sullinger to replace him who subsequently got injured.

Skiaram averages 6 PPG and 4 RPG. 13 PER (16 is avg). - OBPM. + DBPM. 0.3 BPM overall. So yeah he's playing ok doesn't look to be a star by any means but isn't hurting them and giving more then expected from the 27th pick.

But why isn't Poelti playing? He was the 9th pick last year. Why isn't Bruno playing? Carroll got injured most of last year and he still didn;t see the floor. Powell wasn't drafted by Masai BTW. He's played well and probably worth a late first at this point but really that is the only player of value you have in the proposal. Wright is 24 and played 200 minutes in this league and when he isn't playing he's found someway to get himself injured. It's not like he was a high pick to begin with either. I would probably value him at a 2nd round pick at this point.

No thanks to your proposal and I would argue (in fact I just did) that Masai draft history with the raptors has been uneven.

[TTP]

It's hard to evaluate and analyze a player who doesn't play because well there is nothing to analyze except the fact they are not playing.

But lets just go through the list of first round picks off the top of my memory. Bruno, Skiakam (honestly forgot him), Poeltl, and wright. You say Skiakam is starting every game but you are not taking your own advice. How has he played? We know the reasons why he is starting they had garbage at the position before in Scola. Signed Jared Sullinger to replace him who subsequently got injured.

Skiaram averages 6 PPG and 4 RPG. 13 PER (16 is avg). - OBPM. + DBPM. 0.3 BPM overall. So yeah he's playing ok doesn't look to be a star by any means but isn't hurting them and giving more then expected from the 27th pick.

But why isn't Poelti playing? He was the 9th pick last year. Why isn't Bruno playing? Carroll got injured most of last year and he still didn;t see the floor. Powell wasn't drafted by Masai BTW. He's played well and probably worth a late first at this point but really that is the only player of value you have in the proposal. Wright is 24 and played 200 minutes in this league and when he isn't playing he's found someway to get himself injured. It's not like he was a high pick to begin with either. I would probably value him at a 2nd round pick at this point.

No thanks to your proposal and I would argue (in fact I just did) that Masai draft history with the raptors has been uneven.

Siakam's advanced stats far exceed expecations. Stop using PER - you'll look smarter once you do. It doesn't account well for defense and rewards empty offensive players. If you're going give a lot of weight to small sample stats, 0.3 BPM is incredible for a late 1st rookie. Only two members of the 2015 draft class that played 500+ minutes have exceeded that (Towns and Porzingis). He's grading 50th/91 for PFs in RPM, which is great for a late 1st rookie. He's also starting over Patrick Patterson even with Sullinger out.

On a side note, the fact that you repeatedly spell Siakam's name wrong gives the notion that you're uninformed. Forgetting him entirely makes me question whether you know much about their team and players and whether you've actually put much thought into why their prospects struggle to get minutes. Given that, how can you hold such strong opinions?

Bruno was a high upside project. When you're picking in the 20s every season, it's quite reasonable to miss on one and he was always expected to be really far off. No GM is perfect - the Spurs, arguably the best in the business, drafted Livio Jean-Charles 28th the year before.

Poeltl is similarly blocked by good players. They're contenders - it's very common for rookies to not get much playing time on teams this good. He's still received 145 minutes.

Powell was essentially drafted by Masai. They traded for him right after the pick was made. That's like arguing that we didn't draft Noel - it's a technicality. When we're assessing his ability to target talent, trading someone before they've played a minute for another team is the same thing as drafting them.

Wright was good in his limited minutes last year blocked by Lowry and Joseph - he was 35th/68 in RPM among PGs. He played very well in the D-League as well. If you liked him as a prospect, which I and many analytics models did, your opinion is unlikely to have changed since the draft given that there's no evidence that he's played poorly.

If you look at the average GM's track record in these spots, Masai crushes. Looking over the 2015 draft, I'd take Powell somewhere around 8th or 9th in a redraft, and they got him 46th. Getting a likely rotation player or better in Siakam at 27th is well above expectation.

[TTP]

Also your expectations for rookies on contending teams as well as the success rate on late round picks are pretty ridiculous. I doubt anyone would argue that the Spurs are great at finding talent late.

Over the last 7 seasons, they've made 6 first round picks, all in the 20-30 range:

-James Anderson played about as much as Wright his first season and flamed out of the league.

-Cory Joseph played similar minutes to Wright and become one of the top backups in the league.

-Livio Jean-Charles has yet to make it to the NBA.

-Kyle Anderson got about 120 more minutes than Wright his rookie season and is a solid rotation player now.

-Nikola Milutinov has yet to make it to the NBA.

-Dejounte Murray has only gotten 46 minutes so far this season.

None of these players played more than 358 minutes their rookie year. Powell played more than twice that. Good teams just have a hard time getting rookies playing time - they wouldn't be good if they could.

[spikeslovechild]

It's hard to evaluate and analyze a player who doesn't play because well there is nothing to analyze except the fact they are not playing.

But lets just go through the list of first round picks off the top of my memory. Bruno, Skiakam (honestly forgot him), Poeltl, and wright. You say Skiakam is starting every game but you are not taking your own advice. How has he played? We know the reasons why he is starting they had garbage at the position before in Scola. Signed Jared Sullinger to replace him who subsequently got injured.

Skiaram averages 6 PPG and 4 RPG. 13 PER (16 is avg). - OBPM. + DBPM. 0.3 BPM overall. So yeah he's playing ok doesn't look to be a star by any means but isn't hurting them and giving more then expected from the 27th pick.

But why isn't Poelti playing? He was the 9th pick last year. Why isn't Bruno playing? Carroll got injured most of last year and he still didn;t see the floor. Powell wasn't drafted by Masai BTW. He's played well and probably worth a late first at this point but really that is the only player of value you have in the proposal. Wright is 24 and played 200 minutes in this league and when he isn't playing he's found someway to get himself injured. It's not like he was a high pick to begin with either. I would probably value him at a 2nd round pick at this point.

No thanks to your proposal and I would argue (in fact I just did) that Masai draft history with the raptors has been uneven.

Siakam's advanced stats far exceed expecations. Stop using PER - you'll look smarter once you do. It doesn't account well for defense and rewards empty offensive players. If you're going give a lot of weight to small sample stats, 0.3 BPM is incredible for a late 1st rookie. Only two members of the 2015 draft class that played 500+ minutes have exceeded that (Towns and Porzingis). He's grading 50th/91 for PFs in RPM, which is great for a late 1st rookie. He's also starting over Patrick Patterson even with Sullinger out.

On a side note, the fact that you repeatedly spell Siakam's name wrong gives the notion that you're uninformed. Forgetting him entirely makes me question whether you know much about their team and players and whether you've actually put much thought into why their prospects struggle to get minutes. Given that, how can you hold such strong opinions?

Bruno was a high upside project. When you're picking in the 20s every season, it's quite reasonable to miss on one and he was always expected to be really far off. No GM is perfect - the Spurs, arguably the best in the business, drafted Livio Jean-Charles 28th the year before.

Poeltl is similarly blocked by good players. They're contenders - it's very common for rookies to not get much playing time on teams this good. He's still received 145 minutes.

Powell was essentially drafted by Masai. They traded for him right after the pick was made. That's like arguing that we didn't draft Noel - it's a technicality. When we're assessing his ability to target talent, trading someone before they've played a minute for another team is the same thing as drafting them.

Wright was good in his limited minutes last year blocked by Lowry and Joseph - he was 35th/68 in RPM among PGs. He played very well in the D-League as well. If you liked him as a prospect, which I and many analytics models did, your opinion is unlikely to have changed since the draft given that there's no evidence that he's played poorly.

If you look at the average GM's track record in these spots, Masai crushes. Looking over the 2015 draft, I'd take Powell somewhere around 8th or 9th in a redraft, and they got him 46th. Getting a likely rotation player or better in Siakam at 27th is well above expectation.

Lets just cut the crap. First of all Powell was not essentially drafted he was a throw in in the Vasquez trade in which they received a first round pick.

As far as Wright goes I don't know what you want. He was picked 20th. He hasn't played that doesn't make him worth more that makes him worth less regardless of the reason. At this point he is a guy you may give a second for not the type of guy who moves the Needle for in a Noel trade.

Powell like I said is a guy who is interesting. I think he could likely fetch a late first thats not enough for me. If we talking a lesser player like Ersan or Covington sure.

[TTP]

Lets just cut the crap. First of all Powell was not essentially drafted he was a throw in in the Vasquez trade in which they received a first round pick.

As far as Wright goes I don't know what you want. He was picked 20th. He hasn't played that doesn't make him worth more that makes him worth less regardless of the reason. At this point he is a guy you may give a second for not the type of guy who moves the Needle for in a Noel trade.

Powell like I said is a guy who is interesting. I think he could likely fetch a late first thats not enough for me. If we talking a lesser player like Ersan or Covington sure.

It's super common for teams to make a second round pick and immediately trade them away. The Sixers did it twice in the 2013 draft with Glen Rice Jr. and Pierre Jackson. They did it twice again in the 2014 draft with Russ Smith and Nemanja Dangubic. Jordan McRae was drafted by the Spurs and then traded to us. We did it one more time in 2015 with Willy Hernangomez. In every case, you credit the team that acquired the player. The Sixers don't get credit or criticism for the success (or lack thereof) of Rice, Jackson, Smith, Dangubic, or Hernangomez. They do get the credit or criticism for McRae. It's the same with Powell - it's very obvious the Raptors were targeting him and should be credited as one of their draft hits. If anything, a GM should get MORE credit for a guy they trade for, rather than drafting whatever ends up in their lap.

I didn't say he was worth more than 20th. I gave my reasons for why I liked him and why he shouldn't be viewed as a bust who is "buried for a reason" as you indicated in your original post. Powell would be the bigger piece of the Noel deal but Wright would hold value for me in the deal as well.

Ersan isn't worth a late 1st. His contract isn't an asset. We'd be lucky to get a second for him.

Covington might be worth more than Noel given contract status. Hard to tell.

[spikeslovechild]

Lets just cut the crap. First of all Powell was not essentially drafted he was a throw in in the Vasquez trade in which they received a first round pick.

As far as Wright goes I don't know what you want. He was picked 20th. He hasn't played that doesn't make him worth more that makes him worth less regardless of the reason. At this point he is a guy you may give a second for not the type of guy who moves the Needle for in a Noel trade.

Powell like I said is a guy who is interesting. I think he could likely fetch a late first thats not enough for me. If we talking a lesser player like Ersan or Covington sure.

It's super common for teams to make a second round pick and immediately trade them away. The Sixers did it twice in the 2013 draft with Glen Rice Jr. and Pierre Jackson. They did it twice again in the 2014 draft with Russ Smith and Nemanja Dangubic. Jordan McRae was drafted by the Spurs and then traded to us. We did it one more time in 2015 with Willy Hernangomez. In every case, you credit the team that acquired the player. The Sixers don't get credit or criticism for the success (or lack thereof) of Rice, Jackson, Smith, Dangubic, or Hernangomez. They do get the credit or criticism for McRae. It's the same with Powell - it's very obvious the Raptors were targeting him and should be credited as one of their draft hits. If anything, a GM should get MORE credit for a guy they trade for, rather than drafting whatever ends up in their lap.

I didn't say he was worth more than 20th. I gave my reasons for why I liked him and why he shouldn't be viewed as a bust who is "buried for a reason" as you indicated in your original post. Powell would be the bigger piece of the Noel deal but Wright would hold value for me in the deal as well.

Ersan isn't worth a late 1st. His contract isn't an asset. We'd be lucky to get a second for him.

Covington might be worth more than Noel given contract status. Hard to tell.

It is hard to tell I suspect we have different values on the various players including Noel. My stance all along is I want difference makers or potential difference makers for him.

If we have to settle for an offer like you suggested then BC has misplayed the market. Which certainly could happen but even if we had to accept a bad offer that is not the kind of construct I would be in favor of. I'd rather have currency in the form of first round picks that we could use to either draft a player we like or package together with our existing assets for a bigger piece. I really don't think we need more projects.

[TTP]

Lets just cut the crap. First of all Powell was not essentially drafted he was a throw in in the Vasquez trade in which they received a first round pick.

As far as Wright goes I don't know what you want. He was picked 20th. He hasn't played that doesn't make him worth more that makes him worth less regardless of the reason. At this point he is a guy you may give a second for not the type of guy who moves the Needle for in a Noel trade.

Powell like I said is a guy who is interesting. I think he could likely fetch a late first thats not enough for me. If we talking a lesser player like Ersan or Covington sure.

It's super common for teams to make a second round pick and immediately trade them away. The Sixers did it twice in the 2013 draft with Glen Rice Jr. and Pierre Jackson. They did it twice again in the 2014 draft with Russ Smith and Nemanja Dangubic. Jordan McRae was drafted by the Spurs and then traded to us. We did it one more time in 2015 with Willy Hernangomez. In every case, you credit the team that acquired the player. The Sixers don't get credit or criticism for the success (or lack thereof) of Rice, Jackson, Smith, Dangubic, or Hernangomez. They do get the credit or criticism for McRae. It's the same with Powell - it's very obvious the Raptors were targeting him and should be credited as one of their draft hits. If anything, a GM should get MORE credit for a guy they trade for, rather than drafting whatever ends up in their lap.

I didn't say he was worth more than 20th. I gave my reasons for why I liked him and why he shouldn't be viewed as a bust who is "buried for a reason" as you indicated in your original post. Powell would be the bigger piece of the Noel deal but Wright would hold value for me in the deal as well.

Ersan isn't worth a late 1st. His contract isn't an asset. We'd be lucky to get a second for him.

Covington might be worth more than Noel given contract status. Hard to tell.

It is hard to tell I suspect we have different values on the various players including Noel. My stance all along is I want difference makers or potential difference makers for him.

If we have to settle for an offer like you suggested then BC has misplayed the market. Which certainly could happen but even if we had to accept a bad offer that is not the kind of construct I would be in favor of. I'd rather have currency in the form of first round picks that we could use to either draft a player we like or package together with our existing assets for a bigger piece. I really don't think we need more projects.

Norman Powell isn't a project. He's already pretty likely to be a positive player or close to it. Any player we'd be able to draft from a Nerlens trade would be more of a project. He's the type of player we should he trying to acquire - a good, young 3 and D wing that can't get playing time on a contender. I'm skeptical the Raptors would value him less than half a season of Nerlens though.

[spikeslovechild]

It's super common for teams to make a second round pick and immediately trade them away. The Sixers did it twice in the 2013 draft with Glen Rice Jr. and Pierre Jackson. They did it twice again in the 2014 draft with Russ Smith and Nemanja Dangubic. Jordan McRae was drafted by the Spurs and then traded to us. We did it one more time in 2015 with Willy Hernangomez. In every case, you credit the team that acquired the player. The Sixers don't get credit or criticism for the success (or lack thereof) of Rice, Jackson, Smith, Dangubic, or Hernangomez. They do get the credit or criticism for McRae. It's the same with Powell - it's very obvious the Raptors were targeting him and should be credited as one of their draft hits. If anything, a GM should get MORE credit for a guy they trade for, rather than drafting whatever ends up in their lap.

I didn't say he was worth more than 20th. I gave my reasons for why I liked him and why he shouldn't be viewed as a bust who is "buried for a reason" as you indicated in your original post. Powell would be the bigger piece of the Noel deal but Wright would hold value for me in the deal as well.

Ersan isn't worth a late 1st. His contract isn't an asset. We'd be lucky to get a second for him.

Covington might be worth more than Noel given contract status. Hard to tell.

It is hard to tell I suspect we have different values on the various players including Noel. My stance all along is I want difference makers or potential difference makers for him.

If we have to settle for an offer like you suggested then BC has misplayed the market. Which certainly could happen but even if we had to accept a bad offer that is not the kind of construct I would be in favor of. I'd rather have currency in the form of first round picks that we could use to either draft a player we like or package together with our existing assets for a bigger piece. I really don't think we need more projects.

Norman Powell isn't a project. He's already pretty likely to be a positive player or close to it. Any player we'd be able to draft from a Nerlens trade would be more of a project. He's the type of player we should he trying to acquire - a good, young 3 and D wing that can't get playing time on a contender. I'm skeptical the Raptors would value him less than half a season of Nerlens though.

Norman Powell only has two years on his deal. So they would essentially be trading 1 1/2 seasons of Powell for 1/2 season of Noel who they would extend.

I'm just not as high on Powell as you are. I do agree that he is a 3&D guy I just was hoping we could do better then that for him. Guess we'll see.

[BullyKing]

Colangelo, Ladies and Gentlemen:

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[Sixerscan]

Colangelo, Ladies and Gentlemen:

Read on Twitter

Who the F is that guy