Markelle Fultz Discussion

[sixerswillrule]

Wasn't it reported that Ainge turned down Crowder + Brooklyn pick for Jimmy Butler? Now he adds an all-star in Thomas on top of that package for Kyrie who is equal to if not worse than Butler? Though I guess signing Hayward wouldn't have been possible after that move. Still seems like an overpay. Kyrie and IT are similar players but even if you argue that Kyrie is better, it's definitely not by that much.

[Sixersftw]

Danny got robbed.

[GabeCerebro]

Fultz just came in a huge high risk/high stakes trade

This is just an inaccurate statement.

Ugh. I'm not even particularly opposed to the trade and like Fultz, but let's not turn the board into a parody of itself. Trading two top-3 picks is always going to be high risk, and the odds of two picks in that zone turning into a great player are better than the odds of Fultz becoming one. So yes, betting on Fultz is a significant gamble. Just basic facts, not acknowledging them is only going to produce sensitive homer stuff, walling up around your guy like he's part of your family or something.

No, you're the only one being biased here. We traded a 2-5 protected pick in a big heavy draft (that we might not even lose) in order to acquire a perfect fit for us... Whereas at #3 there wouldn't have been anywhere near that. You saying anything else is just opinion.

[Mik317]

I think people are exaggerating the picks but yet...there is a good chance that if this trade backfires like some think, that will mean Embiid is probably not healthy...in which a big heavy draft is probably exactly what we'd need at that point.

[Ericb5]

It's not luck. He keeps putting himself in good position to get better players. Now when he flips IT and Crowder for Kyrie, he just needs one of the Lakers or Brooklyn picks to be a star, to complete his team.

This will be very interesting to see what the details of this trade end up being. If Ainge can get Irving for Thomas Crowder and a non BKN pick it will be a master stroke.

Master stroke this is not how about an unprotected Brooklyn pick for the greatest GM in the league.

They paid a heavy price, but I am a big believer in the team that gets the best player winning the deal, and Irving is the best player for sure.

I would be happy with this deal for both teams. On a pure value standpoint Cleveland knocked it out of the park because they were over a barrel.


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[76ciology]

2018 draft ain't good

[HotelVitale]

This is just an inaccurate statement.

Ugh. I'm not even particularly opposed to the trade and like Fultz, but let's not turn the board into a parody of itself. Trading two top-3 picks is always going to be high risk, and the odds of two picks in that zone turning into a great player are better than the odds of Fultz becoming one. So yes, betting on Fultz is a significant gamble. Just basic facts, not acknowledging them is only going to produce sensitive homer stuff, walling up around your guy like he's part of your family or something.

No, you're the only one being biased here. We traded a 2-5 protected pick in a big heavy draft (that we might not even lose) in order to acquire a perfect fit for us... Whereas at #3 there wouldn't have been anywhere near that. You saying anything else is just opinion.

Already posted a few times to explain this, but a trade being a worthwhile gamble doesn't mean it's not a gamble. Pretty much every trade has risks--or at least everyone that's worth talking about does--and this one clearly does since it exclusively involves volatile assets (young high draft picks).

Also laughin at being called out ('bias!') when we're in agreement--I'm good with the trade and the reasoning behind it, was fine with it from the time it was clear it wasn't both the LAL and SAC picks. But there's a solid chance it flops, and it wasn't a steal or swindle or anything that takes away any and all doubt about it: Tatum could easily be better than Fultz, the LAL pick could become Porter or some top-5 stud in '19, Embiid could go down and leave us in dire need of an Ayton, etc. All those are very possible and those different outcomes mean that we'll be evaluating and following up on this trade for years to come.

[ivysixer2000]

Ugh. I'm not even particularly opposed to the trade and like Fultz, but let's not turn the board into a parody of itself. Trading two top-3 picks is always going to be high risk, and the odds of two picks in that zone turning into a great player are better than the odds of Fultz becoming one. So yes, betting on Fultz is a significant gamble. Just basic facts, not acknowledging them is only going to produce sensitive homer stuff, walling up around your guy like he's part of your family or something.

No, you're the only one being biased here. We traded a 2-5 protected pick in a big heavy draft (that we might not even lose) in order to acquire a perfect fit for us... Whereas at #3 there wouldn't have been anywhere near that. You saying anything else is just opinion.

Already posted a few times to explain this, but a trade being a worthwhile gamble doesn't mean it's not a gamble. Pretty much every trade has risks--or at least everyone that's worth talking about does--and this one clearly does since it exclusively involves volatile assets (young high draft picks).

Also laughin at being called out ('bias!') when we're in agreement--I'm good with the trade and the reasoning behind it, was fine with it from the time it was clear it wasn't both the LAL and SAC picks. But there's a solid chance it flops, and it wasn't a steal or swindle or anything that takes away any and all doubt about it: Tatum could easily be better than Fultz, the LAL pick could become Porter or some top-5 stud in '19, Embiid could go down and leave us in dire need of an Ayton, etc. All those are very possible and those different outcomes mean that we'll be evaluating and following up on this trade for years to come.

If the LAL pick becomes Porter, which means number #1, we still get that pick. Remember Celtics only have 2-5.

If Embiid does go down, our own pick will be higher. Not real high, more of a middle pick, but its still higher. Basically we got what we wanted in this last draft, now we have to actually see on the court how it works out so we can see what else we need.

[smittybanton]

Good trade for both sides.

1) Even though Isaiah Thomas is only 88% of Kyrie Irving, Irving doesn't get to show that extra 12% while he's playing with Lebron. The only game the Cavaliers won in the Finals was when Kyrie took over in the fourth and was unstoppable.

2) Getting Jae Crowder in the deal is not nothing. If they face GS again, Crowder will be more useful than JR Smith, Shumpert or Kevin Love.

If the Celtics get Mohammed Bamba with the LA/Sixers pick, they will crush the league for years to come. Not having an impact big on defense kept them from being scary already. Then they lose Kelly Olynyk and Amir Johnson.

If the Lakers pick comes in at #6 and Boston doesn't get ours or the Nets' pick, the Celtics will again lack up front talent, and be a good instead of great team. I am rooting even harder for the Lakers this year. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Brook Lopez. Get it!

[Ericb5]

Good trade for both sides.

1) Even though Isaiah Thomas is only 88% of Kyrie Irving, Irving doesn't get to show that extra 12% while he's playing with Lebron. The only game the Cavaliers won in the Finals was when Kyrie took over in the fourth and was unstoppable.

2) Getting Jae Crowder in the deal is not nothing. If they face GS again, Crowder will be more useful than JR Smith, Shumpert or Kevin Love.

If the Celtics get Mohammed Bamba with the LA/Sixers pick, they will crush the league for years to come. Not having an impact big on defense kept them from being scary already. Then they lose Kelly Olynyk and Amir Johnson.

If the Lakers pick comes in at #6 and Boston doesn't get ours or the Nets' pick, the Celtics will again lack up front talent, and be a good instead of great team. I am rooting even harder for the Lakers this year. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Brook Lopez. Get it!

I agree that it is a good deal for both teams, but I disagree that Kyrie is held back in anyway by Lebron. His pure counting stats may be held back a bit, but his overall game is elevated by Lebron.

Lebron allows him to focus only on his strengths, and absolves him of dealing with his weaknesses.



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[smittybanton]

Good trade for both sides.

1) Even though Isaiah Thomas is only 88% of Kyrie Irving, Irving doesn't get to show that extra 12% while he's playing with Lebron. The only game the Cavaliers won in the Finals was when Kyrie took over in the fourth and was unstoppable.

2) Getting Jae Crowder in the deal is not nothing. If they face GS again, Crowder will be more useful than JR Smith, Shumpert or Kevin Love.

If the Celtics get Mohammed Bamba with the LA/Sixers pick, they will crush the league for years to come. Not having an impact big on defense kept them from being scary already. Then they lose Kelly Olynyk and Amir Johnson.

If the Lakers pick comes in at #6 and Boston doesn't get ours or the Nets' pick, the Celtics will again lack up front talent, and be a good instead of great team. I am rooting even harder for the Lakers this year. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Brook Lopez. Get it!

I agree that it is a good deal for both teams, but I disagree that Kyrie is held back in anyway by Lebron. His pure counting stats may be held back a bit, but his overall game is elevated by Lebron.

Lebron allows him to focus only on his strengths, and absolves him of dealing with his weaknesses.



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In my book, the only game the Cavs won against Golden State was when Kyrie took over in the 4th qtr and was unstoppable. They relentlessly attacked the rim all game and won. Went away from it in game 5, tried to out-shoot Golden State again, and were promptly ushered out the building. I think Kyrie has the best handles in the game, but folks dont know it because Lebron carries the freight.

[LordCovington33]

Good trade for both sides.

1) Even though Isaiah Thomas is only 88% of Kyrie Irving, Irving doesn't get to show that extra 12% while he's playing with Lebron. The only game the Cavaliers won in the Finals was when Kyrie took over in the fourth and was unstoppable.

2) Getting Jae Crowder in the deal is not nothing. If they face GS again, Crowder will be more useful than JR Smith, Shumpert or Kevin Love.

If the Celtics get Mohammed Bamba with the LA/Sixers pick, they will crush the league for years to come. Not having an impact big on defense kept them from being scary already. Then they lose Kelly Olynyk and Amir Johnson.

If the Lakers pick comes in at #6 and Boston doesn't get ours or the Nets' pick, the Celtics will again lack up front talent, and be a good instead of great team. I am rooting even harder for the Lakers this year. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Brook Lopez. Get it!

I am not rooting for wins. I still want to give ourselves a chance of getting the #1 pick. If it goes 2-5, so be it. I don't want a 10th pick. Plus, Sac should be a high lottery team in 2019 if we miss out. That said, I think the lakers will finish 6-10 this year.

[Ericb5]

Good trade for both sides.

1) Even though Isaiah Thomas is only 88% of Kyrie Irving, Irving doesn't get to show that extra 12% while he's playing with Lebron. The only game the Cavaliers won in the Finals was when Kyrie took over in the fourth and was unstoppable.

2) Getting Jae Crowder in the deal is not nothing. If they face GS again, Crowder will be more useful than JR Smith, Shumpert or Kevin Love.

If the Celtics get Mohammed Bamba with the LA/Sixers pick, they will crush the league for years to come. Not having an impact big on defense kept them from being scary already. Then they lose Kelly Olynyk and Amir Johnson.

If the Lakers pick comes in at #6 and Boston doesn't get ours or the Nets' pick, the Celtics will again lack up front talent, and be a good instead of great team. I am rooting even harder for the Lakers this year. Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Brook Lopez. Get it!

I agree that it is a good deal for both teams, but I disagree that Kyrie is held back in anyway by Lebron. His pure counting stats may be held back a bit, but his overall game is elevated by Lebron.

Lebron allows him to focus only on his strengths, and absolves him of dealing with his weaknesses.



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In my book, the only game the Cavs won against Golden State was when Kyrie took over in the 4th qtr and was unstoppable. They relentlessly attacked the rim all game and won. Went away from it in game 5, tried to out-shoot Golden State again, and were promptly ushered out the building. I think Kyrie has the best handles in the game, but folks dont know it because Lebron carries the freight.

I agree that he has the best handles in the game, and can take over a game with his scoring. He still isn't a point guard though, yet he can only guard that position.

Lebron is the one that gives him the space to do that though, while still winning basketball games.

Kyrie isn't going to play "better" without Lebron. He is just going to put up better numbers.

Let me ask you this. Who is going to run the team on the Celtics?

The Celtics are probably going to be better because they added more talent than they lost, but they basically replaced a scoring guard with a scoring guard. They still have poor big men, and no point guard.


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[ivysixer2000]

I agree that it is a good deal for both teams, but I disagree that Kyrie is held back in anyway by Lebron. His pure counting stats may be held back a bit, but his overall game is elevated by Lebron.

Lebron allows him to focus only on his strengths, and absolves him of dealing with his weaknesses.



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In my book, the only game the Cavs won against Golden State was when Kyrie took over in the 4th qtr and was unstoppable. They relentlessly attacked the rim all game and won. Went away from it in game 5, tried to out-shoot Golden State again, and were promptly ushered out the building. I think Kyrie has the best handles in the game, but folks dont know it because Lebron carries the freight.

I agree that he has the best handles in the game, and can take over a game with his scoring. He still isn't a point guard though, yet he can only guard that position.

Lebron is the one that gives him the space to do that though, while still winning basketball games.

Kyrie isn't going to play "better" without Lebron. He is just going to put up better numbers.

Let me ask you this. Who is going to run the team on the Celtics?

The Celtics are probably going to be better because they added more talent than they lost, but they basically replaced a scoring guard with a scoring guard. They still have poor big men, and no point guard.


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Guess I'm not a fan of Kyrie like that, his handles lack flexibility and especially creativity (other than for himself), I can't get excited seeing his handles at all. He's always bent over with the ball barely getting off the ground, making quick crossovers but only cause the ball doesn't leave a very small window while using tunnel vision the whole time. That man's gotta have back problems eventually, Kyrie get your head up and see your teamates, your a point guard.

Kyrie will put up better raw numbers, his percentages will drop without Bron. I figure he will try to lead the league in scoring, so he will be putting up the shots. Ainge really took a chance basically blowing up a team that when to the ECFs, get your popcorn ready...that ride might be a rollar coaster.

[Mrcrockpots]

Watched some video highlights of Kyrie vs Boston last night. Kyrie had wide open layup after wide open layup against the Celtics in the ECF. Not comparing Kyrie to Fultz, but I'm hoping Fultz can get to the rim just like Kyrie did. I'm really hoping we play Boston in the playoffs this year. I love how we match up with them. They have Horford, Baynes and Morris to battle Embiid down low. Kyrie to defend Fultz. Simmons and Roco will lock down Morris and Hayward. They REALLY need Brown and Tatum to quickly become All Stars or they're in big trouble moving forward. Can see Jaylen causing problems for JJ, but I'd throw TLC on him in situations.

We are built to beat Boston in a 7 game series (assuming all healthy of course).

[Unbreakable99]

Watched some video highlights of Kyrie vs Boston last night. Kyrie had wide open layup after wide open layup against the Celtics in the ECF. Not comparing Kyrie to Fultz, but I'm hoping Fultz can get to the rim just like Kyrie did. I'm really hoping we play Boston in the playoffs this year. I love how we match up with them. They have Horford, Baynes and Morris to battle Embiid down low. Kyrie to defend Fultz. Simmons and Roco will lock down Morris and Hayward. They REALLY need Brown and Tatum to quickly become All Stars or they're in big trouble moving forward. Can see Jaylen causing problems for JJ, but I'd throw TLC on him in situations.

We are built to beat Boston in a 7 game series (assuming all healthy of course).

Kyrie has much better handles and is quicker than Fultz so I doubt Fultz can get to the rim as well as Kyrie does. Fultz didn't get to the rim in Summer League. Not quick enough. That's not good.

[Mrcrockpots]

Watched some video highlights of Kyrie vs Boston last night. Kyrie had wide open layup after wide open layup against the Celtics in the ECF. Not comparing Kyrie to Fultz, but I'm hoping Fultz can get to the rim just like Kyrie did. I'm really hoping we play Boston in the playoffs this year. I love how we match up with them. They have Horford, Baynes and Morris to battle Embiid down low. Kyrie to defend Fultz. Simmons and Roco will lock down Morris and Hayward. They REALLY need Brown and Tatum to quickly become All Stars or they're in big trouble moving forward. Can see Jaylen causing problems for JJ, but I'd throw TLC on him in situations.

We are built to beat Boston in a 7 game series (assuming all healthy of course).

Kyrie has much better handles and is quicker than Fultz so I doubt Fultz can get to the rim as well as Kyrie does. Fultz didn't get to the rim in Summer League. Not quick enough. That's not good.

Come on man. No one has handles like Kyrie, but thats not the be all end all in terms of getting to the rim. This will be an area where Fultz excels.

[Unbreakable99]

Watched some video highlights of Kyrie vs Boston last night. Kyrie had wide open layup after wide open layup against the Celtics in the ECF. Not comparing Kyrie to Fultz, but I'm hoping Fultz can get to the rim just like Kyrie did. I'm really hoping we play Boston in the playoffs this year. I love how we match up with them. They have Horford, Baynes and Morris to battle Embiid down low. Kyrie to defend Fultz. Simmons and Roco will lock down Morris and Hayward. They REALLY need Brown and Tatum to quickly become All Stars or they're in big trouble moving forward. Can see Jaylen causing problems for JJ, but I'd throw TLC on him in situations.

We are built to beat Boston in a 7 game series (assuming all healthy of course).

Kyrie has much better handles and is quicker than Fultz so I doubt Fultz can get to the rim as well as Kyrie does. Fultz didn't get to the rim in Summer League. Not quick enough. That's not good.

Come on man. No one has handles like Kyrie, but thats not the be all end all in terms of getting to the rim. This will be an area where Fultz excels.

Maybe. I'm just saying he didn't get to the rim in summer league. DSJ did. Tatum did. Not Fultz.

[Mrcrockpots]

Kyrie has much better handles and is quicker than Fultz so I doubt Fultz can get to the rim as well as Kyrie does. Fultz didn't get to the rim in Summer League. Not quick enough. That's not good.

Come on man. No one has handles like Kyrie, but thats not the be all end all in terms of getting to the rim. This will be an area where Fultz excels.

Maybe. I'm just saying he didn't get to the rim in summer league. DSJ did. Tatum did. Not Fultz.

Maaayyybbeeeee overreacting a tad over 2.5 summer league games dude.

[Unbreakable99]

Come on man. No one has handles like Kyrie, but thats not the be all end all in terms of getting to the rim. This will be an area where Fultz excels.

Maybe. I'm just saying he didn't get to the rim in summer league. DSJ did. Tatum did. Not Fultz.

Maaayyybbeeeee overreacting a tad over 2.5 summer league games dude.

I can only go off Summer League play. That's all we have. Maybe he will be able to get to the rim against actual NBA players on a consistent basis in real games next year instead of the D League and lower level players he was going against in Summer League. We'll see.