Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[Negrodamus]

And like I said before, same weaknesses a year later. I'm loving his progress.

[phillthy13]

Gotta say, it's nice to argue over guys we know we can get. That being said, Simmons will be the pick simply because it's BC's first move as GM and he doesn't want to start off on the hot seat with why he passed on the consensus #1 pick since last summer.

[tk76]

Or because counting stats don't mean crap to me. He didn't live in the paint, his high post game was fully on display for anyone that cared to notice. He was draining 53% of his jumpers and exhibiting his passing acumen from there.

I am aware of your bias towards per-minute advanced metrics, which makes this discussion circular at best.

I am saying that Calipari limited KAT's minutes and role at UK as opposed to what he could do as a prospect.

Do you disagree with my premise or not?

I'm not saying you cannot find those skills if you are a professional scout or data miner. Nor am I saying POINTZ! Stop assuming that you are the only person in the room with functioning critical thinking skills and dismissing comments on the basis of others supposed inferior analytical approach.

....addendum:
Sorry. No reason for me to make a personal attack. My bad.

[Kobblehead]

Embiid
Towns
Simmons

Three can't-miss prospects that would make "The Process" worth every second of agony it caused. We have a chance to come away with 2 of the 3. #don'toverthinkit (can we get this tending?).

[Negrodamus]

Embiid + Towns: 8 team losses.

Simmons: 14 team losses.

#dontoverthinkit.

[PhilasFinest]

So you rely on your own untrained eye, biases and anecdotal outlier plays that resonated with you. I think you need to streamline your evaluating techniques.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvF_1fXJxJc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_MSoFc4iA[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx_fPbYlbgo&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi

Posted all these before, not quite anecdotal, and it's not just my untrained eye. It's not even really a secret that he doesn't care on defense.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but If Simmons didn't care about playing defense so much this year, yet still managed 2 SPG and posted nearly identical splits to guys who were said to be potentially very good defensive players (Winslow/Johnson) Doesn't that kinda make you wonder "how good can he be?"

Spin it negatively:He can be lazy on defense at times and not fully engaged

Spin it Positively:He can impact the game on defense despite not being fully engaged. If he was to ever to fully "get it" or reach his ceiling, he could be a very good defensive player.

[Jack Bauer]

Gotta say, it's nice to argue over guys we know we can get. That being said, Simmons will be the pick simply because it's BC's first move as GM and he doesn't want to start off on the hot seat with why he passed on the consensus #1 pick since last summer.

And that's the problem, Simmons' isn't the "consensus" pick, otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate at all. This isn't the Anthony Davis draft, or the John Wall draft, this is the Simmons vs Ingram draft.

[Kobblehead]

Embiid + Towns: 8 team losses.

Simmons: 14 team losses.

#dontoverthinkit.

Kentucky - greatest assembly of talent ever on the same roster
Embiid - played on a loaded #2 seed with a fellow Top 3 pick.

Simmons - Mickey and Martin turn pro and leave him with a worse supporting cast than D'Angelo Russell had at Ohio State.

#inconsequentialpointswillnotprevail

[Negrodamus]

So you rely on your own untrained eye, biases and anecdotal outlier plays that resonated with you. I think you need to streamline your evaluating techniques.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvF_1fXJxJc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_MSoFc4iA[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx_fPbYlbgo&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi

Posted all these before, not quite anecdotal, and it's not just my untrained eye. It's not even really a secret that he doesn't care on defense.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but If Simmons didn't care about playing defense so much this year, yet still managed 2 SPG and posted nearly identical splits to guys who were said to be potentially very good defensive players (Winslow/Johnson) Doesn't that kinda make you wonder "how good can he be?"

Spin it negatively:He can be lazy on defense at times and not fully engaged

Spin it Positively:He can impact the game on defense despite not being fully engaged. If he was to ever to fully "get it" or reach his ceiling, he could be a very good defensive player.

I think it's the same concerns with Dunn. Is he really good at defense or is he gambling on passing lanes (which could burn the team if he misses)? There's no doubt that Simmons is ridiculously athletic for someone his size, so, yea 2 spg is definitely impressive for a 6'10 PF. My problem is that he's not committed to always playing defense. We already have a top pick like that in Okafor.

[Negrodamus]

Embiid + Towns: 8 team losses.

Simmons: 14 team losses.

#dontoverthinkit.

Kentucky - greatest assembly of talent ever on the same roster
Embiid - played on a loaded #2 seed with a fellow Top 3 pick.

Simmons - Mickey and Martin turn pro and leave him with a worse supporting cast than D'Angelo Russell had at Ohio State.

#inconsequentialpointswillnotprevail

At least D'Angelo made it to the tourney in a much better basketball conference and not completely give up on his team when the going got tough. Even has a tourney win under his belt.

[PhilasFinest]

Embiid + Towns: 8 team losses.

Simmons: 14 team losses.

#dontoverthinkit.

Kentucky - greatest assembly of talent ever on the same roster
Embiid - played on a loaded #2 seed with a fellow Top 3 pick.

Simmons - Mickey and Martin turn pro and leave him with a worse supporting cast than D'Angelo Russell had at Ohio State.

#inconsequentialpointswillnotprevail

At least D'Angelo made it to the tourney in a much better basketball conference and not completely give up on his team when the going got tough. Even has a tourney win under his belt.

Okafor only lost 4 games. He's better than all of them.

[Kobblehead]

At least D'Angelo made it to the tourney in a much better basketball conference and not completely give up on his team when the going got tough. Even has a tourney win under his belt.

I hope the godfather of any future top talent is employed by a competent basketball program so you can't hold it against them like you are with Simmons.

[Jack Bauer]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvF_1fXJxJc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_MSoFc4iA[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx_fPbYlbgo&list=PLS02DrMDww6egdUy6vLzMooIZXaPCrXNi

Posted all these before, not quite anecdotal, and it's not just my untrained eye. It's not even really a secret that he doesn't care on defense.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but If Simmons didn't care about playing defense so much this year, yet still managed 2 SPG and posted nearly identical splits to guys who were said to be potentially very good defensive players (Winslow/Johnson) Doesn't that kinda make you wonder "how good can he be?"

Spin it negatively:He can be lazy on defense at times and not fully engaged

Spin it Positively:He can impact the game on defense despite not being fully engaged. If he was to ever to fully "get it" or reach his ceiling, he could be a very good defensive player.

There's no doubt that Simmons is ridiculously athletic for someone his size, so, yea 2 spg is definitely impressive for a 6'10 PF. My problem is that he's not committed to always playing defense. We already have a top pick like that in Okafor.

Just Google either:

"Ben Simmons Lazy" or "Brandon Ingram Lazy".

http://www.google.com

You will find multliple articles and scouting reports about Ben Simmons being lazy, lack of effort, and having an on/off switch especially when things don't go his way.

Only results you'll find about Brandon Ingram and the word lazy is if he's mentioned in the same article that is calling Simmon's lazy.

[PhilasFinest]

man, id love to be lazy and still be able to put up 19-12-5-2.

[Kobblehead]

man, id love to be lazy and still be able to put up 19-12-5-2.

I'd love to not be able to play defense and still put up identical splits as guys being dubbed as stoppers coming into the league.

[Negrodamus]

At least D'Angelo made it to the tourney in a much better basketball conference and not completely give up on his team when the going got tough. Even has a tourney win under his belt.

I hope the godfather of any future top talent is employed by a competent basketball program so you can't hold it against them like you are with Simmons.

Hopefully that transcendent talent will have the foresight to see the dumpster fire ignited that his godfather's program.

Hey, remember when Durant came to Texas after PJ Tucker, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Boobie Gibson left to the pros? I think he came there along with five star guard DJ Augustin (Antonio Blakeney for Simmons). Also found a way to make the tourney (once again, in a much better conference) and won a game in the first round.

[FreesFro]

The "don't overthink this" crowd is funny to me. Simmons will have to do a complete overhaul of his shot, gain confidence in shots at the rim with his left hand, and increase motivation on defense all while we will have to restructure the entire team to make Ben Simmons work, all while there are rumblings that he wants to force his way to LA. All the while we are doing this because he has elite handles, flashy passes, and good at Randle-esque "bullyball" in the SEC.

If anything, overthinking is a necessity.

Wow, hyperbole at its finest.

[Jack Bauer]

man, id love to be lazy and still be able to put up 19-12-5-2.

With a Loss.

[FreesFro]

Embiid + Towns: 8 team losses.

Simmons: 14 team losses.

#dontoverthinkit.

Neither Embiid or Towns do any better at LSU. You'll need to #overthinkthisone.

[Kobblehead]

Ingram's profile as a prospect would crumble under the same pressure of bottom-barrel scratching for flaws that you're applying for Simmons.

There's a difference between being pro-Ingram and just anti-Simmons. I think there's a lot of the latter around these parts. Which is unfortunate.