Ben Simmons Trade Thread

[blargh]

Tobias' production shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum, even though it is mostly of the empty calorie variety anyways (not enough 3 volume and no free throws). He flat out makes our two best players worse on the offensive end of the court.

Care to explain? What is Tobias doing at the PF position that flat out makes our two best players worse on offense? Even if we all agree we need more shot creation and shooting as a team, why would you point at Tobias as the problem?

Harris-Embiid—Simmons lineups had a 124.7 OffRTG in the playoffs. All Embiid-Simmons lineups averaged 124.1 OffRTG.

Again, if you can find a better player for Harris, we shouldn’t hesitate, but it’s not because the fit is bad- it’s just another player is better. Now our PF situation last year: that’s what a bad fit looks like.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Right, just a comment about how the original plan with Fultz shouldn't be considered a good one right now in light of what we've discovered since then. Revisiting that plan and trying to make good on it with a Fultz replacement doesn't necessarily make Simmons what he was envisioned to be when that plan was conceived.

I get it, but people are acting as if we would be better without Ben Simmons on this roster and that has been proven to be false. We aren't better simply without Ben Simmons. We're significantly worse. Now is all we do this offseason is somehow pull off a Tobias Harris for CJ McCollum trade and Ben remains here in Philly, I won't be upset about it. We've exhausted every avenue except for one such as this, which was...the original plan. Neither Ben or Jo have had the chance to play with a guard as dynamic as CJ McCollum. I'm in no way saying that this would cure Simmons' playoff woes, but if we don't get a fair deal for him, then it's worth a shot imo. Ben sucks in the playoffs. That's on him to change that. Adding McCollum doesn't suddenly do that, but maybe it opens a door that has remained closed.

I'm sorry. We're you blind for the last few years? Ben doesn't know what to do, has no purpose and no coach has figured out a role for a guy who refuses to shoot the ball.

Every 4th quarter when you took the ball out of Ben's hands he either stands in the corner where teams know he wont shoot so theh sag off. He goes to dunker spot and doesn't even look to make himself available for the ball, or he stands at the elbow watching the game play out.

You can't say we are worse without Ben when we have NEVER had another true starting caliber PG on the roster. The reason we haven't was also bc Ben got bent out of shape if he wasn't the defacto PG. It's why we passed on Fox and Shai. Team was always looking for off ball.

Not even going to explain myself again. You clearly didn't read my post. Learn to read and comprehend, then we'll revisit this.

[sodmoraes]

The three pointers are icing on the cake to me. The primary gain is finally having a guy who can get his own shot in the half court, the lack of which is what has done us in more than anything else. Tobias is a good guy, but the reality is that he's the classic 'good player on a bad team', filling up the stat sheet but incapable of being 'the guy' when you need him to be. CJ is a perfect second option who can be the go-to guy in big spots. No-brainer.

Yeah if you swapped tobi with Middleton or even just their shot selection we’d still be playing.

I think folks are letting the last couple of games cloud the fact that Tobi had a very effective playoffs for us. Compared to both Middleton and McCollum this postseason, he averaged about the same PPG in less minutes and much better efficiency. He flat out won a couple of games for us. I’m not against moving him, but it better be for someone good.

Tobias is a good player, but i noticed he almost always scores the quietest 20 ppg i have ever seen. He usually scores most of his points in the first half, but disappears when the game is on the line. He's not clutch , when the game gets tight he cant be relied on. And since hes not that athletic he gets denied a lot when goes to the rim( he's a finesse player too).He's a oportunistic scorer, but not a go to guy.

We lack backcourt creation Badly. We only had Maxey, who played little and was not ready because he was a rookie. If we trade Tobias for Cj i think the impact would be massive . He's a really good isolation player( 88% percentile) and shoots a lot of 3s at 40% clip. He's not a star like Dame but he's a pretty good player that fills our greatest need. If we cant trade Ben for Lavine or Dame i would rather trade Tobias for Cj, since Ben's game would flourish with him.

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[Black Mage]

I get it, but people are acting as if we would be better without Ben Simmons on this roster and that has been proven to be false. We aren't better simply without Ben Simmons. We're significantly worse. Now is all we do this offseason is somehow pull off a Tobias Harris for CJ McCollum trade and Ben remains here in Philly, I won't be upset about it. We've exhausted every avenue except for one such as this, which was...the original plan. Neither Ben or Jo have had the chance to play with a guard as dynamic as CJ McCollum. I'm in no way saying that this would cure Simmons' playoff woes, but if we don't get a fair deal for him, then it's worth a shot imo. Ben sucks in the playoffs. That's on him to change that. Adding McCollum doesn't suddenly do that, but maybe it opens a door that has remained closed.

I'm sorry. We're you blind for the last few years? Ben doesn't know what to do, has no purpose and no coach has figured out a role for a guy who refuses to shoot the ball.

Every 4th quarter when you took the ball out of Ben's hands he either stands in the corner where teams know he wont shoot so theh sag off. He goes to dunker spot and doesn't even look to make himself available for the ball, or he stands at the elbow watching the game play out.

You can't say we are worse without Ben when we have NEVER had another true starting caliber PG on the roster. The reason we haven't was also bc Ben got bent out of shape if he wasn't the defacto PG. It's why we passed on Fox and Shai. Team was always looking for off ball.

Not even going to explain myself again. You clearly didn't read my post. Learn to read and comprehend, then we'll revisit this.

Maybe you don't know what you wrote. You said trade Tobias for CJ because that's the only thing we haven't tried for Ben and Biid. What you don't seem to appreciate is that keeping Ben on the court when he refuses to shoot is a non-starter. It won't matter a lick if you have a PG when you are constantly stuck playing 4 on 5. If you can't 100% guarantee that Ben returns next season willing to shoot then you've lost your last window to dump his pansy-a** onto another team.

You also can't presume the Sixers are "worse" without Ben if you get an all-star level point guard or a wing and sign a PG. Frankly, I think the team is as good and likely better just by forcing opponents to respect all 5 positions on defense in the half court.

[ILOVEIT]

Warriors fan...I come in peace.
IMO Philly fans know hoops as much or more than any fan base.
One of the rumors is the trade with Warriors sending Wiggins and our picks for Ben.
Question: Wouldn't Draymond Green be a much better option for your squad? Trust me...if he's on your team you've got the meanest SOB and an unquestionable leader. He's a master ball distributor and all-defensive player.
Yes he's older....but if you guys are in a win now mode (next 2-3 years) wouldn't you want to have a super clutch dude helping Embiid and Tobias and Seth get it done?

Wiggins just not a leader type...I think your team needs toughness and clutchness and Draymond will give you both. He'll hit is FTs when it matters most...and he CAN hit a 3 in the biggest of moments.

Thoughts?

[Tomjas]

Warriors fan...I come in peace.
IMO Philly fans know hoops as much or more than any fan base.
One of the rumors is the trade with Warriors sending Wiggins and our picks for Ben.
Question: Wouldn't Draymond Green be a much better option for your squad? Trust me...if he's on your team you've got the meanest SOB and an unquestionable leader. He's a master ball distributor and all-defensive player.
Yes he's older....but if you guys are in a win now mode (next 2-3 years) wouldn't you want to have a super clutch dude helping Embiid and Tobias and Seth get it done?

Wiggins just not a leader type...I think your team needs toughness and clutchness and Draymond will give you both. He'll hit is FTs when it matters most...and he CAN hit a 3 in the biggest of moments.

Thoughts?

Green is the closest we’ll get to replacing Ben’s overall production in 1 player

[ILOVEIT]

IF GSW is interested in Simmons, then why not Draymond/Looney/pick?

Take the pick & package it with Tobias for a scorer

The issue with offloading Simmons is that his overall impact is incredibly difficult to replace & Draymond is probably the closest to doing so without causing major changes in how the team plays

Plus he’s a veteran leader and a winner

Warrior fan....and I completely agree. I think fans that understand what it takes to win playoffs and get to finals know the value of Draymond Green. Simmons and Green are similar in that they are both all-defensive players...can guard every position...and are excellent passers.

However, Draymond will NEVER be afraid of the big moments. He LOVES the pressure. He will help set the tone and get you guys at least one chip....I have no doubt.

Take him...and one or two of the picks....get a younger point guard like Devon Mitchel.

Problem solved....Philly get's a chip.

[ILOVEIT]

lol...we clearly agree Tomjas

[76ciology]

IF GSW is interested in Simmons, then why not Draymond/Looney/pick?

Take the pick & package it with Tobias for a scorer

The issue with offloading Simmons is that his overall impact is incredibly difficult to replace & Draymond is probably the closest to doing so without causing major changes in how the team plays

Plus he’s a veteran leader and a winner

Warrior fan....and I completely agree. I think fans that understand what it takes to win playoffs and get to finals know the value of Draymond Green. Simmons and Green are similar in that they are both all-defensive players...can guard every position...and are excellent passers.

However, Draymond will NEVER be afraid of the big moments. He LOVES the pressure. He will help set the tone and get you guys at least one chip....I have no doubt.

Take him...and one or two of the picks....get a younger point guard like Devon Mitchel.

Problem solved....Philly get's a chip.

Been saying the same thing about Green.

This also allows Biid to rest on defense and focus more on offense. Currently, Biid is trying to do an impossible task of anchoring both offense and defense.

But sorry, we need more than picks. Not just because of value but let’s be honest.. Green, Biid and those picks wont help us win a championship.

If you also know understand the game, you know how offense is just OP right now and we need a scorer better than Embiid that can slide Embiid into #2 option. Someone like Dame, harden, Kawhi or Steph.

After watching a lot of warriors game, you know offense generated from the perimeter will always beat offense generated by a big. And offense will trump any kind of defense.

[Tomjas]

IF GSW is interested in Simmons, then why not Draymond/Looney/pick?

Take the pick & package it with Tobias for a scorer

The issue with offloading Simmons is that his overall impact is incredibly difficult to replace & Draymond is probably the closest to doing so without causing major changes in how the team plays

Plus he’s a veteran leader and a winner

Warrior fan....and I completely agree. I think fans that understand what it takes to win playoffs and get to finals know the value of Draymond Green. Simmons and Green are similar in that they are both all-defensive players...can guard every position...and are excellent passers.

However, Draymond will NEVER be afraid of the big moments. He LOVES the pressure. He will help set the tone and get you guys at least one chip....I have no doubt.

Take him...and one or two of the picks....get a younger point guard like Devon Mitchel.

Problem solved....Philly get's a chip.

Been saying the same thing about Green.

This also allows Biid to rest on defense and focus more on offense. Currently, Biid is trying to do an impossible task of anchoring both offense and defense.

But sorry, we need more than picks. Not just because of value but let’s be honest.. Green, Biid and those picks wont help us win a championship.

If you also know understand the game, you know how offense is just OP right now and we need a scorer better than Embiid that can slide Embiid into #2 option. Someone like Dame, harden, Kawhi or Steph.

After watching a lot of warriors game, you know offense generated from the perimeter will always beat offense generated by a big. And offense will trump any kind of defense.

It’s the same with virtually any Simmons trade scenario

Trade him for Beal, LaVine etc and we’ll be forced into more trades to compensate for the loss of distribution, rebounding & defence

[ConstableChaos]

Green may not be afraid to take a shot doesn't mean he'll make it

[Tomjas]

Not a betting man but I would have a few $ on Simmons on the Lakers being in on Simmons

LeBron, Klutch, Simmons preferred destination, arms race

Makes sense

Lakers don’t have the assets so it will be a complicated deal but it’s LeBron so ...

[DCasey91]

Tobias' production shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum, even though it is mostly of the empty calorie variety anyways (not enough 3 volume and no free throws). He flat out makes our two best players worse on the offensive end of the court.

Care to explain? What is Tobias doing at the PF position that flat out makes our two best players worse on offense? Even if we all agree we need more shot creation and shooting as a team, why would you point at Tobias as the problem?

Harris-Embiid—Simmons lineups had a 124.7 OffRTG in the playoffs. All Embiid-Simmons lineups averaged 124.1 OffRTG.

Again, if you can find a better player for Harris, we shouldn’t hesitate, but it’s not because the fit is bad- it’s just another player is better. Now our PF situation last year: that’s what a bad fit looks like.

4th quarter ball Harris can’t be asked for the bookend. Neither can Embiid alone. Not his fault his game isn’t suited to that.

It’s addition by subtraction with Harris.

You know he’s getting paid top 15 money in the comp? Net negative no matter what Harris does because he can’t play any better then he has. Mid season he should have been gone but Morey literally can’t clean up every mess in one year.

Ben’s actual contract is top 30 which is neutral at minimum and a positive when placed in an environment for uptick (solo or aviable backcourt same with Embiid).

CJ has a big uptick when Lillard is out and is just a better fit in the end it’s kind of a no brainer the swap between the two.

[PhillyNj]

Don’t see any chance Ben ends up on the lakers. They just don’t have the pieces the Sixers need.

[DCasey91]

The magic marker for me is a 115 type scoring team and a sub 110 defensive team.

Our defense is sound look at the last 5 games we played the Hawks. It’s on Doc for me out of everyone shouldn’t have gone to game 7 if he played it straight and logical which he can’t do lol.

Game 1 was squarely on him

Game 2 and 6 was saved by literally throw crap at the wall with Maxey and Shake. Forced and reactionary moves. Both words are just bad strategy.

Game 7 somehow he switched the lineup with 7 to go when we had alllllll the momentum up two then the energy just left all of a sudden when he made that change. Legit every game he made a blunder lol, 6 mins end of first halfway through the second we scored 5 points.... 5 points coz Doc is slow. He loves the bench mobs way too much. Did I mention he’s slow? And he’s stubborn as well.

Looking back I’ll be honest Milton, Maxey and Scott should have got more burn. Compensate everything for a scorers punch that’s it nothing special or fancy. It’s to give Embiid + minutes to rest that’s the strategy.

Could not believe he actually ran Thybulle/Simmons and Howard I could not believe it.

If we run back the tape and actually look at the stretches his moves were either slow or just dumbfounding.

Guys game 1 the all bench unit run up a -13 then he put Green back on Young like he didn’t torch him not five minutes ago. That shoulda told ya Doc is no bueno sauce.

Young was sub 40% FG for the series.

I’ll say it again I’m fine for replacing Ben but it’s false thinking Ben has zero or negative value in the end, he definitely doesn’t.

Harris is good for a non impact 20 or so that’s it. Can’t be asked to do more when the pressure is on to score.

He has crap FT rates and we tried the spam 3ball strat with him years ago to really really bad consequences.
It’s obvious it’s CJ if we are going down that route of moving off Harris.

[kuclas]

Sixers issue is execution of playoff games in the last 2 minutes of winnable games. We need a second reliable iso player. And Simmons simply cannot be the second best player on the Sixers as non offensive player

But the issue is we can’t have any combination of 2 offensive and defensive liabilities on the floor at the same time at the same time crunch time.

Meaning we can’t have thybulle Simmons on the floor at same time (two offensive liabilities). We can’t have Simmons and curry on floor at the same time. Curry defensive liability.

What can be do when Embiid is out of gas down the stretch? I truly believe if we hadn’t played Simmons down the stretch of game 7 and game 4/5 as And I’m not talking last 2 minutes. I’m talking about just taking him out of game entire 4th quarter. We win. The hack a Simmons or threat of hack a Simmons ruins the flow of the game for Sixers. It’s broke the offensive rhythm. Nba game is about spurts and runs. And fouling a player to keep the game within striking distance actually won games for the hawks.

The analytics say hack a shaq didn’t cost lakers any games. But it surely disrupted the Sixers ability to win the games this playoff season.

So the question is what can we get back for Simmons. I don’t think CJ Alone is enough. Portland needs to do sign and trade with powell as well. They won’t do that powell would be CJ replacement in Portland.

[Tomjas]

Lakers had Kobe

[mjkvol]

I'm sorry. We're you blind for the last few years? Ben doesn't know what to do, has no purpose and no coach has figured out a role for a guy who refuses to shoot the ball.

Every 4th quarter when you took the ball out of Ben's hands he either stands in the corner where teams know he wont shoot so theh sag off. He goes to dunker spot and doesn't even look to make himself available for the ball, or he stands at the elbow watching the game play out.

You can't say we are worse without Ben when we have NEVER had another true starting caliber PG on the roster. The reason we haven't was also bc Ben got bent out of shape if he wasn't the defacto PG. It's why we passed on Fox and Shai. Team was always looking for off ball.

Not even going to explain myself again. You clearly didn't read my post. Learn to read and comprehend, then we'll revisit this.

Maybe you don't know what you wrote. You said trade Tobias for CJ because that's the only thing we haven't tried for Ben and Biid. What you don't seem to appreciate is that keeping Ben on the court when he refuses to shoot is a non-starter. It won't matter a lick if you have a PG when you are constantly stuck playing 4 on 5. If you can't 100% guarantee that Ben returns next season willing to shoot then you've lost your last window to dump his pansy-a** onto another team.

You also can't presume the Sixers are "worse" without Ben if you get an all-star level point guard or a wing and sign a PG. Frankly, I think the team is as good and likely better just by forcing opponents to respect all 5 positions on defense in the half court.

Simmons for Green
Harris for McCollum

Maxey (if he's ready)
McCollum - Curry
Embiid
Green
Green

We keep our young players and picks, Morey finds some depth in FA and possible lesser trades, and we have a championship level, balanced roster. Done.

[sixers4real]

I love warriors fans coming in peace, but even if Draymond is not shy of the moment unlike Simmons, he won’t take us to another level, like top-3 NBA team. Picks are cool, but no guarantee of a great player/value.

If Morey trades Simmons, it’s to make us better the day he completed the trade.

[DCasey91]

Guys it’s simple:

Lowry
CJ
Green
Simmons
Embiid

Or..

John Wall
Jalen Green
Josh Hart
Joe Ingles
Joel Embiid