Tobias Harris Trade Thread

[mjkvol]

I was surprised. Read their board after the last game. Wild.

Wow. I don't generally venture any further here than the Sixers board, but just a glance at the Bucks' board. I thought this group was hard on Tobias, those are some angry people. And with a team that is defending champs.

Here are a few samples about Middleton just from the first page:

2-11 from 3 for Piss Shiddleton not going to cut it.

Middleton’s lazy ass old man game is getting as old as he appears

Khris will be gone before next season begins. Feel pretty secure with this prediction.

khris sucks again trade him. jrue is not far away from being called drew bledsoe.

And some are even turning on Giannis:

Giannis loyalty can only go so far

[Kobblehead]

Short of Embiid or Harden getting hurt and us having to lean on Harris in an elevated role, why does it matter that he's "better" than Covington? Covington is a FAR more useful player and a FAR better fit.

[Arsenal]

Definitely don't need a third big piece. Just need a guy or two that can shoot threes and make plays defensively.

Sign Covington to the MLE to pair with Green and we're golden.

Agree with this. Clearing Harris' cap space will allow Morey to get pieces that fit around Embiid and Harden and maintain flexibility. Build depth that can shoot and play defense, and as you say, we're golden.

You guys are still killing me with this. Both the idea that Covington would never think about coming for the tax MLE but would immediately be guaranteed to sign if we had the regular MLE, as well as the idea that Robert Covington is better than Harris.

Clearing Harris for nothing isn’t the worst idea, but it’s incredibly difficult to plan around and it’s at best a risky move that could easily backfire. Best case scenario it gets us like a Jae Crowder type, but we’d need several strokes of luck to get there and that type player is not clearly better than Tobias.

Not the right way to look at it.

Does clearing Harris for pure cap, then signing a 3&D PF make us better now and in the future?

YES it does.

We're FAR better off w/a Crowder or Covington plus $25M available for other players.

[Arsenal]

Short of Embiid or Harden getting hurt and us having to lean on Harris in an elevated role, why does it matter that he's "better" than Covington? Covington is a FAR more useful player and a FAR better fit.

Exactly. A straight swap of Tobias for Covington at MLE pricing would be a *massive* win for us.

[zaz102]

Agree with this. Clearing Harris' cap space will allow Morey to get pieces that fit around Embiid and Harden and maintain flexibility. Build depth that can shoot and play defense, and as you say, we're golden.

You guys are still killing me with this. Both the idea that Covington would never think about coming for the tax MLE but would immediately be guaranteed to sign if we had the regular MLE, as well as the idea that Robert Covington is better than Harris.

Clearing Harris for nothing isn’t the worst idea, but it’s incredibly difficult to plan around and it’s at best a risky move that could easily backfire. Best case scenario it gets us like a Jae Crowder type, but we’d need several strokes of luck to get there and that type player is not clearly better than Tobias.

Not the right way to look at it.

Does clearing Harris for pure cap, then signing a 3&D PF make us better now and in the future?

YES it does.

We're FAR better off w/a Crowder or Covington plus $25M available for other players.

I'm not a cap expert so I have genuine questions.

1. How can you trade him for pur cap space? I thought it had to be within 10% salary match.

2. I thought even with a trade then they would still be close enough to the cap limit that they wouldn't have much to sign someone or would have to use MLE or minimum. I forget how that works.

[FireMorey]

If Covington was a knockdown shooter, he'd be a great fit. That dude is way too inconsistent. Not sure why people want to go back to that well, the last thing you need is a 1/10 from downtown playoff performance from Cov. And remember, his cold streaks can last weeks with that dude.

I was looking at the free agent class, and there are guys who granted play a different position, that I'd much rather have. Like Gary Harris, Pat Bev, Malik Monk, Patty Mills, hell even Schroder. Just not a fan of Covington and his streaky shooting, for a dude who only shoots league average in the end anyway, he's not worth it.

Now if you're asking me would I swap Harris for Cov right now straight up? Yes, because Harris' contract is horrendous. But standing alone, I'd much rather have Harris excluding the contract. But for what it would take to dump Harris... ie including likely multiple first rounders, I don't think dumping him is worth it unless you can make a close to max player happen. Certainly not for a guy like Covington.

[Kobblehead]

Covington is an elite steal and block guy. And he's a willing shooter.

He and Danny Green would be PERFECT ancillary starters to surround Harden/Embiid with.

[FireMorey]

I'd rather you get someone less streaky and who can put the ball on the floor a little bit.

[Stanford]

Short of Embiid or Harden getting hurt and us having to lean on Harris in an elevated role, why does it matter that he's "better" than Covington? Covington is a FAR more useful player and a FAR better fit.

Isn't all of this irrelevant? No one with cap space is going to take on Tobias's contract for nothing. We'd be paying Presti two firsts for a disposal like that. So we can free up floor time for Robert Covington? Those picks should be used on finishing touches, not dumping salary.

[Kobblehead]

There's less of a need of guys who put the ball on the floor when Embiid/Harden are the entire offense. We need defense and spacing above all other traits. Covington provides both traits and is a vet with ties to both the organization and Morey directly.

[FireMorey]

Short of Embiid or Harden getting hurt and us having to lean on Harris in an elevated role, why does it matter that he's "better" than Covington? Covington is a FAR more useful player and a FAR better fit.

Isn't all of this irrelevant? No one with cap space is going to take on Tobias's contract for nothing. We'd be paying Presti two firsts for a disposal like that. So we can free up floor time for Robert Covington? Those picks should be used on finishing touches, not dumping salary.

I agree. Don’t think trading Harris is realistic unless it’s a scenario like Zach Lowe mentioned, because then it would basically be the equivalent of trading Harris and some picks for a max level player. But otherwise, you’re dumping salary just to dump it and hurting your ability to add talent in other areas with the picks you’d have to give up to get rid of him.

I think Thybulle, and a pick(and I guess some salary filler) could get you a Jerami Grant/Marcus Smart tier player. Not necessarily those players specifically, but that tier of a player. That makes much more sense to me than trading your remaining picks just to dump Harris.

[Murray_17]

Short of Embiid or Harden getting hurt and us having to lean on Harris in an elevated role, why does it matter that he's "better" than Covington? Covington is a FAR more useful player and a FAR better fit.

Isn't all of this irrelevant? No one with cap space is going to take on Tobias's contract for nothing. We'd be paying Presti two firsts for a disposal like that. So we can free up floor time for Robert Covington? Those picks should be used on finishing touches, not dumping salary.

Yeah, i think people is not understanding how much it will cost to dump Tobias and how many picks we have left.

Not to mention you have to be able to get the guys you're after, with the free cap, which is also a crapshot.

[JRoy]

[list=][/list]

I'd rather you get someone less streaky and who can put the ball on the floor a little bit.

It is ugly to see RoCo try to drive after a hard close out.
Yuck.

[Arsenal]

[list=][/list]

I'd rather you get someone less streaky and who can put the ball on the floor a little bit.

It is ugly to see RoCo try to drive after a hard close out.
Yuck.

Tobias for Bledsoe. The 3rd star you need.

[stormi]

[list=][/list]

I'd rather you get someone less streaky and who can put the ball on the floor a little bit.

It is ugly to see RoCo try to drive after a hard close out.
Yuck.

Yea, he's even less skilled than Niang. Literally cannot dribble whatsoever. His defense is overrated as well, he is not a lockdown man defender. He is however a pretty swell help defender with long arms and great positioning. I think if he were shooting around ~37% from 3 on huge volume I'd still ignore his shortcomings.

Especially playing alongside Joel Embiid and James Harden that would get him open looks galore.

[JRoy]

[list=][/list]

I'd rather you get someone less streaky and who can put the ball on the floor a little bit.

It is ugly to see RoCo try to drive after a hard close out.
Yuck.

Yea, he's even less skilled than Niang. Literally cannot dribble whatsoever. His defense is overrated as well, he is not a lockdown man defender. He is however a pretty swell help defender with long arms and great positioning. I think if he were shooting around ~37% from 3 on huge volume I'd still ignore his shortcomings.

Especially playing alongside Joel Embiid and James Harden that would get him open looks galore.

That’s pretty much my opinion as well. Anyone expecting him to stay in front of small forwards is going to be disappointed but remains a terrific help defender and solid rebounder. His 3 point shooting comes and goes but he plays within himself aside from the occasional sloppy drive.

[JRoy]

[list=][/list]

I'd rather you get someone less streaky and who can put the ball on the floor a little bit.

It is ugly to see RoCo try to drive after a hard close out.
Yuck.

Tobias for Bledsoe. The 3rd star you need.

Maybe if we were looking to blow $37 mill.

Hardest of passes.

No one is taking that contract without some sweetener and not the Shake Milton flavor.

[Foshan]

[list=][/list]

It is ugly to see RoCo try to drive after a hard close out.
Yuck.

Tobias for Bledsoe. The 3rd star you need.

Maybe if we were looking to blow $37 mill.

Hardest of passes.

No one is taking that contract without some sweetener and not the Shake Milton flavor.

I thought you guys just went through a lot of effort to creat space to get Harris in the off-season???!

[JRoy]

Tobias for Bledsoe. The 3rd star you need.

Maybe if we were looking to blow $37 mill.

Hardest of passes.

No one is taking that contract without some sweetener and not the Shake Milton flavor.

I thought you guys just went through a lot of effort to creat space to get Harris in the off-season???!

Oh you

[FlyingArrow]

This Tobias trade talk makes no sense to me. He's a decent player on a horrible contract. Ownership seems perfectly willing to pay the horrible contract. I haven't seen a realistic trade that brings back a better player. With Harden and Embiid's contracts, we aren't gong to clear enough cap space to sign someone better anyway.

And, to top it all off, he's 16 months away from going from major negative trade asset to a positive trade asset. What happens if we wait until Summer 2023 to trade Tobias? We trade Tobias for some fringe All-Star or former All-Star on an albatross of a contract and maybe even get some draft picks back in the deal. Or maybe we add picks and young talent to trade for a disgruntled player who wants out but isn't on a terrible contract. We will need Tobias to match salaries. The other team gets out of a bad situation (either an albatross contract or disgruntled star) for an expiring Tobias. We get a better 3rd wheel to keep the championship window going.

The only advantage to trading Tobias away for nothing is ownership's bottom line. Who cares about that?