2025 NBA Draft (2)

[zaz102]

I love the casual "he just needs to get better at passing, rebounding, defending, creating turnovers, and getting to the free throw line" that has to come with the argument for Tre Johnson.

I hate to break it to you, but Tre, Ace, and VJ are all flawed prospects. Its picking your poison at this point.

[FireMorey]

No reported workouts yet?

[Arsenal]

I'll gladly take Cody Williams off their hands, if they want to write him off as a bust after 50 NBA games.

Would you do #5 + Cody Williams for #3?

[Negrodamus]

Does it concern anyone else that Rutgers only played three teams with top 50 DRtg and Ace's results were very bad for two of them?
Maryland- 24mins, 4pts, 2-4 FG, 4 reb, 2 stls, 3 to
Michigan State - 39mins, 18pts, 4-17 FG, 9 reb, 2 stls, 4 fouls, 3 to
UCLA - 38mins, 20pts, 7-13 FG, 10 reb, 1 stl, 3 blks

Everyone else was outside of the top 50 in DRtg. (This goes for Harper too who was worse in all three games, but we're not in the running for him).

[ProcessDoctor]

I love the casual "he just needs to get better at passing, rebounding, defending, creating turnovers, and getting to the free throw line" that has to come with the argument for Tre Johnson.

I hate to break it to you, but Tre, Ace, and VJ are all flawed prospects. Its picking your poison at this point.

Flawed /=/ one-dimensional

[Negrodamus]

Tre Johnson played 4 in the top 50 DRtg:

New Mexico State- 26min, 9pts, 4-9 FG, 4 ast
Tennessee - 36min, 26pts, 11-17FG (0 FTA), mostly just scored very efficiently
Florida - 35min, 16pts, 6-15FG (3-4 FT)
Tennessee- 32min, 11pts, 3-8FG (4-4 FT), 2ast, 3TO, 3PF

[Negrodamus]

VJ Edgecombe played the most treacherous defensive rating list. It was like 10 teams with 3 other teams in the top 60. Maybe I'll go back in a little to see how he did against each.

EDIT: fine I'll just do it:

Gonzaga- 29 mins, 4pts, 2-11 FG, 0 FTA, 7rebs, 1 ast, 1stl, 2blks, 3TO
St Johns - 36min, 10pts, 4-15 FG, 0 FTA, 4 reb, 3 ast, 2 stls, 3 blks, 4TO
Tennessee - 27min, 20pts, 8-16 FG, 1-2 FT, 3ast, 2 stls, 1blk, 2TO
Abilene Chr- 30min, 14pt, 6-9FG, 2-4 FT, 3 ast, 6 reb, 4stls, 1blk, 3TO
Iowa St - 36min, 4pts, 1-9FG, 2-2FT, 4ast, 7reb, 4stl
Houston - 37min, 14pts, 5-5FG, 4-4FT, 6reb, 3ast, 2stl, 5TO
WVU - 41min, 7pts, 3-12 FG, 8reb, 6ast, 1stl, 1blk
Houston - 38min, 23pts, 6-14 FG, 9-10 FT, 5reb, 2ast, 3stl, 1blk, 4TO
Duke - 33min, 16pts, 6-12FG, 6reb, 1stl, 1ast

Kansas, Cincy x2 were in the 50s

The first 4 teams were like in the first 10 games of the season. Brutal intro to college basketball.

[Negrodamus]

Honestly most of these guys have more bad games against top defenses than good games. I suppose that shouldn't be surprising, but if one guy really rose above the rest, it'd be kinda cool.

[M2J]

Hornets fan here

Who do you guys think you will select?

I'm pretty much down to Ace or Tre. I don't want VJ I just don't see the hype with him.

First draft thread was great .. There was a poll that was overwhelmingly for Ace. Haters had to shut it down

[zaz102]

I love the casual "he just needs to get better at passing, rebounding, defending, creating turnovers, and getting to the free throw line" that has to come with the argument for Tre Johnson.

I hate to break it to you, but Tre, Ace, and VJ are all flawed prospects. Its picking your poison at this point.

Flawed /=/ one-dimensional

I wouldn't say Tre is one dimensional. I'm not sure if I can necessarily put him above Ace or VJ, but he's definitely in the mix.

I see VJ as a guy that could be great at 3&D and transition.

I see Ace as a 3&D with good rebounding and middie game.

I see Tre with great middie game and 3 point shooting with secondary ball handling duties.

I think there's a good chance at least one of these guys develop into something more, just not sure who. I see Tre's lack of inside game less important than someone like Ace since he's a guard. And I feel defense can eventually be passable especially with his height and huge wingspan.

[Mik317]

again you are probably betting on some slightly outlier development on everyone in the running for our pick in terms of star bets
most of it probably comes just from physical development that comes with time and nba training as all of these guy have some growing into their grown man bodies to do especially Tre and Ace.

I am enjoying yall battle it out for your guys as I am ok with any of them

(in before some rouge shadow gm scout takes Jimmy Joe Johnson out of West Deblip University)

[Black Mage]

It could just be cope considering they expect Ace to be gone at #3.

We know somebody loves Ace and wants to move up. It's simply a question of if the right package is offered.

How do we know this? Was there a report?

Local Pelicans podcast said Pels Joe Dumars loves Ace. To me Pels are too big of a drop down without serious "lolly" coming back to us. Bonus points for anyone who remembers which Disney kids movie that's from.

[Black Mage]

Why are assists being taken into account here on a purely TO conversation?

That’s like comparing Jamal Murray, a non-PG pure scoring guard at Kentucky with a sub 1.0 AST/TO, to Kris Dunn, a heavily on ball PG with a > 1.0 AST/TO but had obvious major turnover issues at Providence.

Turnovers by themselves mean nothing when you're comparing who can be a primary offensive hub. You have to look at them in conjunction with assists to determine who is efficiently creating offense for their team.

And that's where your beloved Derik Queen falls short with an ATROCIOUS 0.79 Assist to Turnover ratio. The guy can't create offense without turning it over way too much.

I mean this is demonstratively false if looking at how many all stars did in terms of A/TO in college (Tatum, Cousins, already mentioned Murray). So I’ll respectfully disagree with you here.

Agreed given turnovers exponentially increase the closer to the basket you get. Queen's turnover rate given how much he handled and dribbled within the packed paint is actually quite good.

[LeonJordanJr24]

I'll gladly take Cody Williams off their hands, if they want to write him off as a bust after 50 NBA games.

Would you do #5 + Cody Williams for #3?

Case and point why we draft Ace or Harper. Ace is way better than Cody Williams...

[Black Mage]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

You think Morey wants to wait until Ace figures out all his shortcomings? Jazz didn’t even give the people who pumped Cody Williams a full calendar year before frying them.

Goes both ways; take VJ and Ace has a ROY campaign and VJ is solid but not spectacular Morey is out. Trade down and end up getting a guy who doesn't move the needle and the pieces added don't get you into a deep playoff run, Morey is out.

Morey could get the pick right and it just take a year or two and he might not be around to see it. The PG and Joel signings are just an albatross that most GM's wouldn't survive.

[Negrodamus]

Turnovers by themselves mean nothing when you're comparing who can be a primary offensive hub. You have to look at them in conjunction with assists to determine who is efficiently creating offense for their team.

And that's where your beloved Derik Queen falls short with an ATROCIOUS 0.79 Assist to Turnover ratio. The guy can't create offense without turning it over way too much.

I mean this is demonstratively false if looking at how many all stars did in terms of A/TO in college (Tatum, Cousins, already mentioned Murray). So I’ll respectfully disagree with you here.

Agreed given turnovers exponentially increase the closer to the basket you get. Queen's turnover rate given how much he handled and dribbled within the packed paint is actually quite good.

Yep, which is why in all of my Ace derangement, I’ve never brought up him having a .62 A/TO rate; didn’t find it important.

[Black Mage]

I love the casual "he just needs to get better at passing, rebounding, defending, creating turnovers, and getting to the free throw line" that has to come with the argument for Tre Johnson.

Imagine, a guy who has to work on developing on one entire side of the floor AND in the midrange and at the rim and we got guys who I respect like Derek and them saying that's a 3rd overall pick level guy. Jared McCain was more of a 3 level scorer than Tre is and that was with size and speed handicaps!

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

You think Morey wants to wait until Ace figures out all his shortcomings? Jazz didn’t even give the people who pumped Cody Williams a full calendar year before frying them.

Goes both ways; take VJ and Ace has a ROY campaign and VJ is solid but not spectacular Morey is out. Trade down and end up getting a guy who doesn't move the needle and the pieces added don't get you into a deep playoff run, Morey is out.

Morey could get the pick right and it just take a year or two and he might not be around to see it. The PG and Joel signings are just an albatross that most GM's wouldn't survive.

I just don’t see the 3rd pick being a guy that needs multiple years to figure it out. Cody, like Ace, was a pick based on some kind of hope that he’s going to grow into his game when that has rarely been the case, even going back to the straight from HS days. NBA teams have limited patience for even top 3 picks; why bet on a guy who lacks in so many aspects of the game at the collegiate level?

[Mik317]

Tre is an elite shooter and thats from deep and on some tough shots with bad spacing/coaching. Thats the sell. The defense and rebounding is bad, no doubt BUT him having the physical tools alongside with the frame to grow makes the idea of those aspects improving something a team can believe in.

No different than beleiving VJ's finishing gets better with rep and better spacing. Or Ace's self creation improves with his body and again better spacing.

I don't see how yall give some guys the benefit of the doubt and don't give it to others.

[Mik317]

Morey could take the next MJ with this pick and should still not be safe lol.

His cap space plan was that bad imo